I don't disagree that there needs to be some control and people should like I have to out here in Croatia be means tested and prove they have finances or a job to support themselves beyond a 6 month stay, which I still have to do despite being a property owner, I also wouldn't qualify for any benefits anyway until I had worked for 2yrs, even then it's only 6 months at 1 3rd of my pay, so I still don't see the point of my doing it but I still get a letter every year.

I'm not posturing by the way, it's just some of the things you say are a bit much, like I said the world is a much smaller place and I struggle to believe us being in or out will change the situation for the man on the street or suddenly provide an apprenticeship for your son, make more beds available in hospitals or dramatically improve the education system.

Facts are the only thing that's going to improve the quality of life for the masses is more taxation and making these organisations more efficient, getting the indigenous population off benefits and out into work and training /education, something like the YTS, slated though it was, it kept me off the streets and taught me how to weld, along with college day release programs.

I genuinely think it's a non issue, in or out you and yours, me and mine will all continue to be sh4t on from above.

Simples.

Yes I noticed Martin tends to rip the p1ss with quite a few on here.I myself was stating an observation from what I've seen with my own eyes,that the majority appeared to be young single males.Last night in Calais Eurotunnel was quiet,it normally is on Friday.They cleared the camp on Wednesday and been told many have moved to zeebrugge,I'll know more when go back out there next week..

Like it or not, that's anecdotal evidence at best.

Maybe so, but I think I'm pretty much on the bullseye from what I have seen and experienced personally,and others who work doing the same job as myself,talking to the border police etc.

i am wearing a ring made from gold from alaska panned by a distant relative on my mothers side, during the gold rush and handed down the family , by that way of thinking i should say sorry to anyone i meet from alaska for my distant relative raping thier assets, BEHAVE. they made money when our distant relatives made money

Erm. Actually, When the parts of India that was under Dutch rule the Dutch only let the British have it because they didn't want the French to take over. Well, that's our version of history anyway LOL. Either way it'd have been some pasty-skinned westerners calling the shots.

And still my point is this has zero relevance on the referendum and our future.

Oh yeah, 'cus that's what I said... :lol1:

What the fuh? My Philips 3Kw 2litre fast boil kettle died this week after 7 yrs of trusty service. Better go buy a new one before they are banned, no no, I'll buy six to last me out 'til my retirement :lol1: :rolleyes: :cuckoo: :facepalm:

Anyone who remembers GCE (or GCSE in my case) physics will know that the energy required to raise the temperature of water; its specific heat capacity (4181J/Kg C ) does not change. Regardless of how many watts the kettle is...the same amount of energy is used to boil it.

Think I may buy a old fashioned stove-top kettle and wang it on the induction hob...that's 3.3KW :)


I've given up on toasters as I'm yet to find one that a)fits British sized bread slices. b) toasts British sized bread slices even without leaving the top part untoasted. c) toasts both sides equally and d) toasts the second slice the same as the first one.

Of course nearly all the toasters available the UK only being designed to fit European "Bimbo" sized slices is nothing to do with being part of the EU. Its just crappy, shoddy bad design.

Hi,
Proposal to ban powerful kettles shelved!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-kettles.html
Cheers
Steve

Nope. mayor of Bruges complaining that they were coming, earlier this week.

The Belgians have passed bylaws forbidding tents or encampments,and are arresting and detaining anyone without the correct papers.

Good for them.

I see you are still in denial, though?

Actually just had a thought:

In 2005 UK building regulations changed to effective ban non-condensing gas boilers in new installations.

Was this introduced as part of a EU directive/legislation?

I don't think it is, but I'd like to know (yes I've googled it). Because right now, today in Spain you can still buy and fit good ol' fashioned non-condensing gas boilers, and before you say it doesn't get cold in Spain...its currently 5C in Alcoy and why most properties there have central heating and no air-con.

Yes because quoting a different source instantly stops the original point of contention being anecdotal... :brickwall

Since it was me who recently did battle with Martin over the verified statistics on this subject (and his hilariously blinkered interpretation of them), I will respond to this.

For some time now, it's been the case that when the subject of the migrant crisis gets discussed here, various posters have commented on the fact that based either on what they've observed on news reports, or from witnessing events first-hand during travel to mainland Europe, it appeared to them that able-bodied males were disproportionately over-represented among the migrants entering or trying to enter the EU. I remember very clearly myself commenting on one such occasion a few months ago that it would be interesting to go over some official statistics on the subject, but unfortunately couldn't find any (it's quite possible that at that time they just hadn't been compiled yet). It was not uncommon for a figure of 90% to be bandied about when this sort of comment was passed, but in the absence of verifiable hard figures, it should be obvious that such percentages could only have ever been meant as very approximate estimates.

Jump forwards a few months to this thread, and lo and behold I happened to stumble on some statistics on this very subject, on a fact-checking site another poster had linked to for unrelated reasons. What those statistics showed is that those superficial impressions so many posters had voiced here in the past were for the most part accurate, with adult males outnumbering adult females by more than three to one, and adults generally outnumbering children by almost three to one (children here meaning anyone under the age of 18, I don't know the exact breakdown by age tranches).

So, while it may be true that Dyk's obervation was made on the basis of a method it's only fair to describe as anecdotal, it also appears to be true that it was surprisingly accurate nevertheless.

Ah...so the Beeb are lying, then? THEY found the migrants, THEY saw them sleeping rough, THEY spoke to the mayor, who has had to invoke new by-laws.

But hey..keep on denying.

If it doesn't affect YOU directly, it's either not happening, or fek the rest of us?

Thing is markmjd, in some situations official statistics may not even exist, or even be wrong....For example in regards to Calais..who is counting and where are they counting?

These migrants living in illegal squat camps that have made no application to reside are IMO a unknown quantity, the numbers and divisions of sex and age can at best only be "officially" guessed which is no better than unofficial observation...Only those that have applied for asylum or residency can be accurately measured and given statistics for.

I'd hazard a blind guess that its the refugee families that are applying for asylum to get out of or avoid those squat camps more so than the groups of single males. Those that wouldn't qualify may not even bother applying in any EU country they pass through. They may not even apply when they reach the UK. Again, just guessing. And nobody official in any government would know any better either.

As mentioned before I've driven through there and I have seen what looks like migrants who congregate and walk around in large male-only groups. Maybe the women are all at the campsite cooking tea and doing the dishes, LOL, I'm joking. However if someone can give a rational explanation to where all the women and children are -without the evidence, its going to be even more anecdotal than what I or others have personally seen.

Agreed. The mayor of Bruges commented that the migrants arriving there had been offered the chance to apply for asylum there, but refused. Only Britain will do, he said.

Yet they are even bending the rules allowing them to apply in Belgium....unless they are asking for asylum from Holland, Germany, France etc??

WHY are the rules not being enforced??????

Oh for **** sake, are you really incapable of maintaining more than one thought process in any given reply?

I said that the statement DYK made was anecdotal at best (it was), he's even agreed with that statement. You posting all your additional sources doesn't change the nature of the original point. The point DYK made was still based on a small sample and the observation of a single person on a single day.

If it makes you feel better at this point no one is actually arguing with you as to the demographic of the migrants found in Calais/norther France. :thumb:

IAJFEE ;) Why would Belgium enforce the rules when the migrants are going to become someone else's problem anyway?

Because then they could be deported again? Everyone's problem solved.

Yeah but if anyone was interested in deporting them they'd be gone by now. The reality is most governments are only interested in appearing to help them to try and take the moral high ground. They don't actually want to help because of the internal politics and they don't want to deport them because that looks bad on the international stage. Hence why the immigrants are left to there own devices.

Yeah, I see that...there's also the logistics and cost.

But how long can we have folk who have NO right to be here, queuing up to sneak in?

And especially knowing that, if they DO get in, there's always Cherie and her mates awaiting their chance to earn off the state for crapping on the state.

Or they just keep appealing, then disappear?

I was watching one of those Police programmes last night, two lots of mobile thieves, one Polish, one Romanian, touring the country with lists of what to steal. Small fry working for Mr Big in London.

When apprehended, they were bailed and yes, you guessed it...disappeared! WE should be stronger too: come to this country, deliberately commit a crime: bye bye!

yet the liberals would be up in arms and the rotten-to-the-core EC would uphold their human rights!!!!

Vote OUT!!!

Agreed, to a point. What the UK needs isn't out of the EU, it's a government strong enough to really take it (and there own system) to task and make it work properly.

It's the same with the scaremongering "Oh we need to be in the EU to stop the terrorists". The same terrorists who crossed the open borders as the criminals in this example do.

We don't need to be in the EU to fight crime, terrorism or even Putin's aggressive Russia.

I'm sick of hearing about the human rights of these people who can't be deported because it might hurt their feelings. No-one ever considers how those who have been wronged (the victims) by these individuals are feeling.

Don't let the criminals or terrorists in to start with, then you don't have to worry about deporting them. But I guess that's not in keeping with the "free movement of labour" should you consider "career criminal/terrorist" as labour.

Add in the scaremongering about Russia's military activities as another scare tactic for remaining in the EU.

The UK being a member of the EU has not stopped:

1. Russia invading Crimea.
2. Russia invading Georgia.
3. Russia launching a cyber attack on Estonia.
4. Terrorists attacking Paris after claiming refugee status in Greece.
5. 5000 Isil trained jihadists being at large in Europe (Europol's own figures).

The safety of the UK comes from Nato and our intelligence services, not the EU. In Britain we share information. We share it between the police and emergency services, councils, social services, intelligence services (where not restricted) etc and anyone else who is involved in safe guarding the population, whereas, for example the Belgium security services don't even share their information with their own police service, let alone other member countries.

Europol is largely irrelevant to day-to-day operations within the counter-terrorism sphere, whilst the Schengen Information System does not necessarily control the movement of terrorists across borders – and you don’t have to be in the EU to use it.

The European Arrest Warrant is only of use to those who deal with serious and organised crime, rather than terrorism.

Porous borders allow for both criminal and terrorists to easily travel. This needs addressing and until the EU will address this, we are safer taking control of our own borders and controlling who can enter the country. Here's a quote which sums it up nicely, from someone who understands terrorism.

I agree. No politician in our government in the commons has the ability to make the EU work in our best interest.

Last weeks PM Qs showed up exactly what we have running this country. The only time they all turn up there is to have a dig, boo, hiss and jeer at some pathetic childish retort. To them going to the commons is a form of entertainment, at the taxpayers expense. Next time you you see PM Qs just look how busy it is compared to a normal day, then look at the immature antics of the back benchers, just look at how their snouts slurp in the tax payer's trough.

And don't start me on the Lords. :mad:

Hi,
In a moment of clarity - I think I now realise why the IN camp want us to remain in the EU.
Firstly - they can always hide behind EU rules if unpopular policies need to be implemented - they would not be able to do this if we leave.
Secondly - our government are incapable of propelling the UK forward outside of the EU - as they lack the competence, imagination and will to make Great Britain great again!
They then use fear tactics to hide their inadequacies!
Cheers
Steve

We haven't had one for years. The present one is making noises but doing zilch, the last Liebour ones were at the bottom of most of the problems, and the left-wing liberal media always shouts loudest.

As someone said to me the other day, isn't it odd how socialism is always judged by what it SHOULD achieve, yet the right, by what went wrong?

Your first point succinctly puts what I've been saying for years, thanks,:)

Your second is also true...plus if we are out, no more gravy-train jobs once they aren't MP's any more.;)

Are you aware that, if you work for the EC for only FIVE years, you are guaranteed a 100% pension for life?
And have a guess who is paying for that?
Hint, the answer isn't Poland, estonia, latvia, romania, bulgaria etc etc.......

That's because in principal socialism is actually a really nice idea (all be it a seriously difficult one to actually achieve), where as a more right wing society isn't so desirable to most.

Finally, someone has posted some easy-to-digest actual facts:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...EU-budget.html

Regardless of your position, this should be useful. Puts the whole '£55M/day' number into context (i.e. it's wrong).

Had Hitler not decided to make a certain section of his population the scapegoats for all Germany's ills, they were doing very nicely, thankyou.

Yet each and every country that has tried out socialism has ended up as a basket case....even china has had to abandon it.

So......nice idea? Maybe. Workable? Never. Orwell saw through it years ago.