oil burning estates that are fun to drive.
15 December 2008, 11:31 AM
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oil burning estates that are fun to drive.
I'm on the lookout for a motor to lug mountain bikes and kit to the country at weekends, been having a good search around, but would be interested in actual experiences and suggestions...
Criteria Diesel, ideally estate (although consider saloon/hatch for budget reasons and get toe hook for bike rack fitted). Still want a bigger car if possible over a medium sized car like Golf Gt or Favia vRS.
Fun to drive, so sport model (if it actually means chassis upgrades and not just fancy wheels and go faster stripes). Although consider standard if its still a hoot for the odd spirited drive in country lanes, although accept its never going to be a sports car. Just a nice compromise.
Budget £4-6k ideally at the lower or mid range of that, might consider going up if something really worth while came up, but in this economic climate want to hold on to my cash and take advantage of people panicking.
Have looked at pretty much every make possible and come back with:
Passat Sport 1.9 / 4Motion. Or v6TDi. Reviews from customers seem to say its pretty dull to drive and actually not as reliable as you'd expect, quite a few pissed off campers on the What car forum. Latter two seem way over priced in comparison to the other contenders.
BMW 320/330D M Sport. In budget tends to be the higher miles, almost definitely the best drivers car of its class IMO, customer reviews almost unanimously say turbo blows at 80k miles and cost a small fortune to replace, which is about the millage of all the cars in my budget, plus quite negative responses about general running costs and reliablity niggles.
A4 Avant 1.9 Sport or 2.5 Quattro seems to get all around priase and lots of positive feedback form previous owners, several stories of ownership from 80 - 160k miles with no major issues. Would relunctantly consider a saloon option with tow hook for budget reasons. Do you think you can get a high milleage car and have a reletively trouble free life with it?
Wild card Jag Xtype Sport Estate. From what I read they're pretty reliable, the only draw back (apart form obvious servicing costs if it goes wrong) are apparently its not very economic compared to above.
Looked at Volvo's, Skoda and a few others, none of which seemed to fit one or more of criteria.
Would love to hear experiences of above or suggestions and a general debate about fun oil burners to look at in the credit crunch ;-)
One other thing, will almost def chip car, not sure if high miles will affect this or not.
Criteria Diesel, ideally estate (although consider saloon/hatch for budget reasons and get toe hook for bike rack fitted). Still want a bigger car if possible over a medium sized car like Golf Gt or Favia vRS.
Fun to drive, so sport model (if it actually means chassis upgrades and not just fancy wheels and go faster stripes). Although consider standard if its still a hoot for the odd spirited drive in country lanes, although accept its never going to be a sports car. Just a nice compromise.
Budget £4-6k ideally at the lower or mid range of that, might consider going up if something really worth while came up, but in this economic climate want to hold on to my cash and take advantage of people panicking.
Have looked at pretty much every make possible and come back with:
Passat Sport 1.9 / 4Motion. Or v6TDi. Reviews from customers seem to say its pretty dull to drive and actually not as reliable as you'd expect, quite a few pissed off campers on the What car forum. Latter two seem way over priced in comparison to the other contenders.
BMW 320/330D M Sport. In budget tends to be the higher miles, almost definitely the best drivers car of its class IMO, customer reviews almost unanimously say turbo blows at 80k miles and cost a small fortune to replace, which is about the millage of all the cars in my budget, plus quite negative responses about general running costs and reliablity niggles.
A4 Avant 1.9 Sport or 2.5 Quattro seems to get all around priase and lots of positive feedback form previous owners, several stories of ownership from 80 - 160k miles with no major issues. Would relunctantly consider a saloon option with tow hook for budget reasons. Do you think you can get a high milleage car and have a reletively trouble free life with it?
Wild card Jag Xtype Sport Estate. From what I read they're pretty reliable, the only draw back (apart form obvious servicing costs if it goes wrong) are apparently its not very economic compared to above.
Looked at Volvo's, Skoda and a few others, none of which seemed to fit one or more of criteria.
Would love to hear experiences of above or suggestions and a general debate about fun oil burners to look at in the credit crunch ;-)
One other thing, will almost def chip car, not sure if high miles will affect this or not.
Last edited by mynickers; 15 December 2008 at 11:36 AM.
15 December 2008, 12:00 PM
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I had a similar dilemma and tested all sorts.
The Passat and Audis just left me cold - dull to drive and slow.
The BMW is very good but too pricey.
Volvo not bad but again pricey.
Probably not your cup of tea but you'd get a good Astra diesel estate for that money (I have had the 1.9CDTi 150PS from new). Handles very well, now well made, quicker than all the above (they are light) and still looks fairly fresh. Planning on keeping ours (now had it over 3 years from new) as it simply does the job it's intended to do very well.
Oh and £200 or so gets you to over 200bhp and 300lbs/ft...
The Passat and Audis just left me cold - dull to drive and slow.
The BMW is very good but too pricey.
Volvo not bad but again pricey.
Probably not your cup of tea but you'd get a good Astra diesel estate for that money (I have had the 1.9CDTi 150PS from new). Handles very well, now well made, quicker than all the above (they are light) and still looks fairly fresh. Planning on keeping ours (now had it over 3 years from new) as it simply does the job it's intended to do very well.
Oh and £200 or so gets you to over 200bhp and 300lbs/ft...
15 December 2008, 12:16 PM
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I didn't think the likes of Vaux and Ford did sport diesels, I must admit I don't really give them much attention, will go and have a look now. Thanks.
If I really can't get an estate to fit the bill, I might go for a wheel barrow vRS and stick a tow hook on it. They're in budget and nice little hot diesel...
If I really can't get an estate to fit the bill, I might go for a wheel barrow vRS and stick a tow hook on it. They're in budget and nice little hot diesel...
15 December 2008, 12:21 PM
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Focus is only 136bhp (I think) so I discounted it.
Very few dip under 9 seconds to 60 - the Astra does 8.6 for the estate, 8.3 for the hatch. Plus you get big alloys (17 or 18" depending on the model), lowered suspension (10mm) and bigger brakes to cope. Hardly a race car but they do go along well.
The 2.0TDI VWs and Audis are a fair bit slower and only the D5 Volvo beats the Astra (at a LOT more cost) for that money.
Do you mean the Fabia vRS? They go well, can easily be chipped but the suspension MUST be upgraded so they handle properly!
Very few dip under 9 seconds to 60 - the Astra does 8.6 for the estate, 8.3 for the hatch. Plus you get big alloys (17 or 18" depending on the model), lowered suspension (10mm) and bigger brakes to cope. Hardly a race car but they do go along well.
The 2.0TDI VWs and Audis are a fair bit slower and only the D5 Volvo beats the Astra (at a LOT more cost) for that money.
Do you mean the Fabia vRS? They go well, can easily be chipped but the suspension MUST be upgraded so they handle properly!
15 December 2008, 12:22 PM
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15 December 2008, 12:59 PM
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I put filthy mtb's in the back of my impreza wagon twice a week, all year round, sometimes more.
thats my solution to yr problem- and you keep a fast car. don't want to use bike racks etc for security reasons.
mind you I used to run vw T4 transporters- had a couple of new camper vans.
seriously tempted to get a T5 version as so damn useful !
an older panel van vw T4 would sort yr needs out probably- far better than an old estate if you want to move bikes about and gear/people.
thats my solution to yr problem- and you keep a fast car. don't want to use bike racks etc for security reasons.
mind you I used to run vw T4 transporters- had a couple of new camper vans.
seriously tempted to get a T5 version as so damn useful !
an older panel van vw T4 would sort yr needs out probably- far better than an old estate if you want to move bikes about and gear/people.
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15 December 2008, 03:13 PM
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If fuel costs, insurance and were not issues for me, I'd happily have a wagon.
Yes Mat, was talking about the Fabia vRs, didn't realise the handling was that bad, knew they were easy to tune for power increase, even an off the peg remap chip will give impressive gains (same as Audi/VW).
I put filthy mtb's in the back of my impreza wagon twice a week, all year round, sometimes more.
thats my solution to yr problem- and you keep a fast car. don't want to use bike racks etc for security reasons.
mind you I used to run vw T4 transporters- had a couple of new camper vans.
seriously tempted to get a T5 version as so damn useful !
an older panel van vw T4 would sort yr needs out probably- far better than an old estate if you want to move bikes about and gear/people.
thats my solution to yr problem- and you keep a fast car. don't want to use bike racks etc for security reasons.
mind you I used to run vw T4 transporters- had a couple of new camper vans.
seriously tempted to get a T5 version as so damn useful !
an older panel van vw T4 would sort yr needs out probably- far better than an old estate if you want to move bikes about and gear/people.
15 December 2008, 03:18 PM
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myknickers - try one for yourself but I found it a very rolly car. ARBs sort it AFAIK. Easy to chip though as you say. Apart from being a bit stodgy around corners, they are good cars.
15 December 2008, 03:21 PM
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well try £250 fully comp for a one year old vw campervan T4 (couple of years ago)
compared to the £530 comp for my wagon.
bet you'd get a beauty of a panel van or multivan for 2-3K.
search under multivan on autotrader or under kombi.
you'd get 5 or 6 seats in in then, plus space.
compared to the £530 comp for my wagon.
bet you'd get a beauty of a panel van or multivan for 2-3K.
search under multivan on autotrader or under kombi.
you'd get 5 or 6 seats in in then, plus space.
15 December 2008, 03:25 PM
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Doesn't really tick the "fun to drive" box though!
I considered a 174PS T5 but:
Even they do 0-60 in 12 seconds, weigh over two tonnes, are hard to park, come with very little safety stuff, are big money with any spec.
So we got a fastish estate instead!
I considered a 174PS T5 but:
Even they do 0-60 in 12 seconds, weigh over two tonnes, are hard to park, come with very little safety stuff, are big money with any spec.
So we got a fastish estate instead!
15 December 2008, 03:29 PM
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Here is a nice V50 Sport. Auto Trader UK - VOLVO V50 2.0D Sport 5dr Diesel Sportswagon
My worry with higher mile cars is clutch, turbo, brakes, everything is going to start needing replacement fairly soon, especially if you're an enthusiastic driver
Last edited by mynickers; 15 December 2008 at 03:31 PM.
15 December 2008, 03:57 PM
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I drive a 530d M Sport Touring everyday and it is fabulous. The 3 should be even better as it is a little lighter. (I also drive Spec C for reference).
Just one observation that may influence you - a friend of mine has a Volvo and his servicing costs are at least twice what they are on my BMW, at main dealer.
The BMW is rock solid after 70K miles and feels like it will go forever. Many cars start to get baggy - mine is taught and fabulous to drive.
If I could only ever own one car - this would be it.
Spooky
Just one observation that may influence you - a friend of mine has a Volvo and his servicing costs are at least twice what they are on my BMW, at main dealer.
The BMW is rock solid after 70K miles and feels like it will go forever. Many cars start to get baggy - mine is taught and fabulous to drive.
If I could only ever own one car - this would be it.
Spooky
15 December 2008, 04:03 PM
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I drive a 530d M Sport Touring everyday and it is fabulous. The 3 should be even better as it is a little lighter. (I also drive Spec C for reference).
Just one observation that may influence you - a friend of mine has a Volvo and his servicing costs are at least twice what they are on my BMW, at main dealer.
The BMW is rock solid after 70K miles and feels like it will go forever. Many cars start to get baggy - mine is taught and fabulous to drive.
If I could only ever own one car - this would be it.
Spooky
Just one observation that may influence you - a friend of mine has a Volvo and his servicing costs are at least twice what they are on my BMW, at main dealer.
The BMW is rock solid after 70K miles and feels like it will go forever. Many cars start to get baggy - mine is taught and fabulous to drive.
If I could only ever own one car - this would be it.
Spooky
BMW 3 Series Touring (98-07) Reader Reviews - What Car?
15 December 2008, 06:02 PM
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Passat Sport 1.9 / 4Motion. Or v6TDi. Reviews from customers seem to say its pretty dull to drive and actually not as reliable as you'd expect, quite a few pissed off campers on the What car forum. Latter two seem way over priced in comparison to the other contenders.
...
Passat Sport 1.9 / 4Motion. Or v6TDi. Reviews from customers seem to say its pretty dull to drive and actually not as reliable as you'd expect, quite a few pissed off campers on the What car forum. Latter two seem way over priced in comparison to the other contenders.
...
The 'PD' models are the later engines, more torque but less mpg. I get 40'ish around Cornish lanes (mainly single track roads!) but you can get late 40s cruising at 80 on the m'way.
Remember the VWs/Audis share engines/chassis in the main so not much difference there. Plenty of room in the back. Insurance is fairly cheap. Parts can be got from GSF/Euro Car Parts for a lot less than main stealers (and are often the same part). 10K servicing which is usually just an oil change in reality if you're doing it yourself (as I do).
More info. over at UKpassats - Welcome to U.K. Passats
Dave
15 December 2008, 06:31 PM
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Auto Trader UK - Ford Mondeo 1998 cc 2.0TD Ghia X
Top spec Mondeo estate with less than 30k on the clock
Top spec Mondeo estate with less than 30k on the clock
16 December 2008, 03:59 PM
#19
Wild card Jag Xtype Sport Estate. From what I read they're pretty reliable, the only draw back (apart form obvious servicing costs if it goes wrong) are apparently its not very economic compared to above.
Remember that under the skin these are Mondeo's so don't worry about servicing and bits as an independent will cost peanuts
Remember that under the skin these are Mondeo's so don't worry about servicing and bits as an independent will cost peanuts
16 December 2008, 04:06 PM
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My 2003 A6 2.5 TDI SE auto (cvt) avant was delightful to drive and economical for a bigish engine. Much nicer to drive than the smaller A3/A4.
here
Auto Trader UK - AUDI A6 2.5 TDI Quattro Sport 5dr Diesel Avant
here
Auto Trader UK - AUDI A6 2.5 TDI 155 SE 5dr Auto (LOW MILES+LEATHER)
here
Auto Trader UK - AUDI A6 2.5 TDI Quattro Sport 5dr Diesel Avant
here
Auto Trader UK - AUDI A6 2.5 TDI 155 SE 5dr Auto (LOW MILES+LEATHER)
16 December 2008, 04:10 PM
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I find all VW and Audi estates too damn lardy. They all weigh far more than they should and the handling suffers.
BMWs get away with it.
My Ashtray changes direction much more readily than an Audi or VW estate (apart from the RS4/6 of course!)
BMWs get away with it.
My Ashtray changes direction much more readily than an Audi or VW estate (apart from the RS4/6 of course!)
16 December 2008, 06:20 PM
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You'd probably regret the day you did it when it spents the rest of its days in a garage, but I have always liked the Alfa 156 Waggon.
Auto Trader UK - ALFA ROMEO 156 2.4 JTD 20v Multijet Veloce
Auto Trader UK - ALFA ROMEO 156 2.4 JTD 20v Multijet Veloce
17 December 2008, 12:43 PM
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17 December 2008, 08:45 PM
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The 320D turbo may indeed be a known issue, but a few grumpy owners on one review site doesn't mean that they 'all' blow up. People don't bother writing about cars that don't give any problems.
Ask around on BMW Land - A Drivers Chat Talk Discussion Forum Board for UK BMW cars and owners 3 5 6 7 series Questions & Answers - they'll probably tell you it's inlet manifolds breaking instead that's the problem
FWIW I have a 330D coming up to 70k miles and would recommend one, niggling problems notwithstanding.
Ask around on BMW Land - A Drivers Chat Talk Discussion Forum Board for UK BMW cars and owners 3 5 6 7 series Questions & Answers - they'll probably tell you it's inlet manifolds breaking instead that's the problem
FWIW I have a 330D coming up to 70k miles and would recommend one, niggling problems notwithstanding.
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