The Scooby is going and now it's a toss up between the ST and VXR!
11 August 2006, 03:44 PM
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The Scooby is going and now it's a toss up between the ST and VXR!
After nearly 6 years of scooby ownership, it is time to move on.
My classic DBM MY00 and I have covered nearly 100k miles, had some great times (Muppet meets, Peak tours, track time, day to day driving) and some 5hite times, ( Gear boxes, clutches, services, mot's, etc
)
I thought I was going to go and get myself an executive car to suit my expanding mid rift and spend the next few years "wafting" about selling copiers.
I tried, I really tried But it wasn't to be, I knew I could live without the exhaust, I even decided that I could live without the vicious punch that the old girl delivers, but I thought that if I compromise on power, I want comfort and toys.
I have read some threads on here and probably like the rest of you, got wound up with the way people were trying to have a simple conversation, only for it to be ruined by argumentative **** wits. So I thought i'd post MY observations and thoughts about these 2 cars. The Focus ST and Astra VRX.
Points to consider....
For various reasons, I will be leasing the car not buying it, personal contract hire.
The insurance for each vehicle is approx £75 per month (More than one driver and a few other extras)
The Focus will cost £289 per month (incl VAT)
The VXR will cost £316 per month (Incl VAT)
(if you know anywhere cheaper, feel free to PM me with your findings
)
I drove the ST yesterday and I will be driving the VXR on Tuesday. This is what I found:
INITIAL "WALK UP" FEEL
To me a very important emotion associated with car ownership. I like looking out of the window at the scoob, I like the feeling I get when I open the garage door in the morning and see the spoiler, you all know what I mean
The test car was a Blue ST3
I walked around the car about 5 or 6 times, trying to find "that" angle and to be honest I struggled. The best overall view in my opinion is 3/4 front. The rear looks a bit heavy, like a dog taking a dump, from some angles, but fine from a slightly different angle. The arches are the same as a normal Focus (I think
) The bonnet is incredibly short and stubby and looks great in isolation or when observed with one of the rather tasty looking wheels. But again from some angles, such a short bonnet seems at odds to the elongated flanks and bulbous back end.
All in all a chunky looking car but for me it wasn't different enough from the lesser focus range to really give me "that" feeling.
I did also like the twin exhausts. Tastefully executed in my opinion just a shame that the cars **** dominates the scene.
Marks:
4/10
THE INITIAL "CLIMB IN" FEEL
For me, another deal clincher or breaker.
I had already approached this test with an open mind, I knew the interior was going to be superior to the old girls, much as I knew the ST wouldn't "feel" as quick but I have to say, I opened the door and wasn't struck. That all changed as soon as I sat in the seats. The interior suddenly made sense. It was a special place to be, the instruments were where you want them and clear, steering column mounted controls for the computer, stereo etc and a great feeling steering wheel (Again, you know what I mean
) The doors shut solidly and the seats adjusted intuitively.
Yeah this was a NICE place to be. Then I turned the ignition Key
I knew it was going to be quiet, but **** me. I kid you not, I had to look at the rev counter to see that the engine was on
With a performance car, I would expect some kind of rumble or something to communicate intent. This was very....... sterile.........
It robbed the interior "ambience" of a couple of marks...
Marks :
6/10
THE DRIVE
Again, being totally open minded. Any comparisons I make to scoobs is purely to help me to try and communicate sensations with you. It is NOT a "Scooby better than ST" statement or vice versa.
As soon as I took the handbrake off (After nearly putting my foot through the floor (Damn these modern light clutches ) ) and we started to roll, the elevated driving position became obvious. I know it's a cliche but yeah, i did feel like I was sat on it rather than in it.
It is excuseable though as a Focus isn't really a low car is it. That sensation stayed with me throughout the test drive. I got over it though.
I could not get over how eerily quiet the thing was when plodding through traffic on the way to the start of my test route.
Also, in a rather vain way, sorry, but going through town I might as well have been driving any other mass produced rep mobile. Not once did I see anyone looking, admiring the car or wondering what it was that made it look different. It just blended in to the masses.
It explained why they have the option of the **** off orange It's certainly NOT the styling that turns heads in this car
After more plodding, i'd discovered the rather expensive looking stereo (Ford option I believe) very loud, very...........er............very............ sod it, very loud Like i say, not sure if it's standard in that spec but if it is then
The computer is rather cool, with plenty of **** figures to entertain you on motorways and the like
I even played with the boost gauge. I only did that once though because I really didn't connect with the "afterthought" feel of them.Having been used to useful gauges, these seemed pointless. Have a look, you'll see what I mean.
I was getting bored. 10 mins had passed and I really didn't feel like I was in one of Fords finest. I felt cheated Fished in by the media Hype 
We finally turned off onto one of my favourite B-roads. just over 3 miles of everything
I checked with the salesman that he'd be okay if I "tested" it, he gave me the thumbs up and I dropped a gear and floored it
I **** you not, it was like the Devil had just popped in to say hello.
The Car stayed level, no squat at all and that quiet, sound proofed engine just went Ballistic
On song and on Boost it sounds great and there is a fantastic feeling of shove that isn't as violent as the scoobs, but it lasts longer. I charged off towards the horizon. A 90 degree left was waiting. I took my foot off the accelerator, went to the brake and irritatingly, the brake pedal stands proud of the other two pedals, so it catches in the welts of your footwear. I'm sure you'd get used to it, but along with the feeling of sitting on top of this ballistic machine, it was un-nerving.
Having moved my foot over the brake, I hit the brakes probably 30m before I normally would in the scoob. No need, the brakes, although a little snatchy, are very good. that coupled with obvious advances in break distribution technology meant I'd breaked way to early. The net result was that I arrived in the corner in the wrong gear and to be fair, I could have gone round faster on my hands
Not to worry, it was my first HOT corner and there were plenty more to come.
I won't bore you with a corner by corner write up but in summary I truly believe that on country roads where caution, consideration for other road users and speed limits apply, there isn't much between them.
You can take your paper stats as much as you like, but in the hands of an average driver like myself (and lets face it, most of us ) The ST is an accomplished weapon.
At the end of the b-road, I felt compelled to turn round and do it again. So I did This time I was far more familiar and confident with this machine that I was sitting on top of. I switched the TC off and Oh Dear 
It transformed the handling for what I consider the worse. There was wheel spin everywhere. No matter how gently I drove and smoothly, how nanny-fied I became, it just span up the inside wheels. I tried all manner of different driving styles to try and rule out any particular cause, but they all resulted in the same outcome. I don't think it was sheer power but a suspension set up issue or dampers. Any corner with the slightest bump and whizz, off it would go.
I'm sure on track it would be fine. But B-roads with TC off, isn't quick and is quite scary to be fair as you have very little directional traction whilst a wheel is spinning.
We got to the end of the b-road, turned onto the traffic laden A road and Satan got out Yep the little monster that had just given me a whole load of emotions just 30 seconds ago had turned into just another Focus again. Quietly we slipped through the streets back to the dealership.
I parked it up, listening to the inane ramblings of the ashen coloured salesman in the background, switched off and got out. As I walked away I turned round to catch another glimpse.
I Swear blind that Satan was sat in the back seat, winking at me
Marks
The Drive 5/10
The emotion 2/10
PLUS POINTS
Cheaper car of the two
Great sounding engine
Easy to pootle about in if you are not in the mood
Plenty of toys
Excellent Cabin and interior. A good place to be
Outstanding Chassis
Bang out of order brakes
BAD POINTS
Doesn't stand out from the crowd. Doesn't shout like a range topper should.
Raised brake pedal
Sat "on" rather than "in" feel
When pootling round town, you forget you are in a sports car. It's too quiet.
The difference between TC on and off is huge.
Salesmen that say they can hack it and then sit there grabbing at imaginary handles and pressing imaginary brake pedals
Unless you are pressing on, you don't get the sounds and feel of a sports car.There is no......... no............ rawness to it!
Suspect Gauges
Would I buy one......... NO....... Would I lease one?.................. I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand.
Tuesday sees me with he keys to a VXR. I'll keep you informed as to how it goes
Feel free to comment or ask further questions, but PLEASE keep your arguments, slagging matches and trolling about ST 'v' Scoobies out of this thread. Cheers
My classic DBM MY00 and I have covered nearly 100k miles, had some great times (Muppet meets, Peak tours, track time, day to day driving) and some 5hite times, ( Gear boxes, clutches, services, mot's, etc
) I thought I was going to go and get myself an executive car to suit my expanding mid rift and spend the next few years "wafting" about selling copiers.
I tried, I really tried
But it wasn't to be, I knew I could live without the exhaust, I even decided that I could live without the vicious punch that the old girl delivers, but I thought that if I compromise on power, I want comfort and toys.I have read some threads on here and probably like the rest of you, got wound up with the way people were trying to have a simple conversation, only for it to be ruined by argumentative **** wits. So I thought i'd post MY observations and thoughts about these 2 cars. The Focus ST and Astra VRX.
Points to consider....
For various reasons, I will be leasing the car not buying it, personal contract hire.
The insurance for each vehicle is approx £75 per month (More than one driver and a few other extras)
The Focus will cost £289 per month (incl VAT)
The VXR will cost £316 per month (Incl VAT)
(if you know anywhere cheaper, feel free to PM me with your findings
) I drove the ST yesterday and I will be driving the VXR on Tuesday. This is what I found:
INITIAL "WALK UP" FEEL
To me a very important emotion associated with car ownership. I like looking out of the window at the scoob, I like the feeling I get when I open the garage door in the morning and see the spoiler, you all know what I mean
The test car was a Blue ST3
I walked around the car about 5 or 6 times, trying to find "that" angle and to be honest I struggled. The best overall view in my opinion is 3/4 front. The rear looks a bit heavy, like a dog taking a dump, from some angles, but fine from a slightly different angle. The arches are the same as a normal Focus (I think
) The bonnet is incredibly short and stubby and looks great in isolation or when observed with one of the rather tasty looking wheels. But again from some angles, such a short bonnet seems at odds to the elongated flanks and bulbous back end. All in all a chunky looking car but for me it wasn't different enough from the lesser focus range to really give me "that" feeling.
I did also like the twin exhausts. Tastefully executed in my opinion just a shame that the cars **** dominates the scene.
Marks:
4/10
THE INITIAL "CLIMB IN" FEEL
For me, another deal clincher or breaker.
I had already approached this test with an open mind, I knew the interior was going to be superior to the old girls, much as I knew the ST wouldn't "feel" as quick but I have to say, I opened the door and wasn't struck. That all changed as soon as I sat in the seats. The interior suddenly made sense. It was a special place to be, the instruments were where you want them and clear, steering column mounted controls for the computer, stereo etc and a great feeling steering wheel (Again, you know what I mean
) The doors shut solidly and the seats adjusted intuitively.Yeah this was a NICE place to be. Then I turned the ignition Key
I knew it was going to be quiet, but **** me. I kid you not, I had to look at the rev counter to see that the engine was on
With a performance car, I would expect some kind of rumble or something to communicate intent. This was very....... sterile.........
It robbed the interior "ambience" of a couple of marks...
Marks :
6/10
THE DRIVE
Again, being totally open minded. Any comparisons I make to scoobs is purely to help me to try and communicate sensations with you. It is NOT a "Scooby better than ST" statement or vice versa.
As soon as I took the handbrake off (After nearly putting my foot through the floor (Damn these modern light clutches
) ) and we started to roll, the elevated driving position became obvious. I know it's a cliche but yeah, i did feel like I was sat on it rather than in it.It is excuseable though as a Focus isn't really a low car is it. That sensation stayed with me throughout the test drive. I got over it though.
I could not get over how eerily quiet the thing was when plodding through traffic on the way to the start of my test route.
Also, in a rather vain way, sorry, but going through town I might as well have been driving any other mass produced rep mobile. Not once did I see anyone looking, admiring the car or wondering what it was that made it look different. It just blended in to the masses.
It explained why they have the option of the **** off orange
It's certainly NOT the styling that turns heads in this car After more plodding, i'd discovered the rather expensive looking stereo (Ford option I believe) very loud, very...........er............very............ sod it, very loud
Like i say, not sure if it's standard in that spec but if it is then The computer is rather cool, with plenty of **** figures to entertain you on motorways and the like
I even played with the boost gauge. I only did that once though because I really didn't connect with the "afterthought" feel of them.Having been used to useful gauges, these seemed pointless. Have a look, you'll see what I mean.
I was getting bored. 10 mins had passed and I really didn't feel like I was in one of Fords finest. I felt cheated
Fished in by the media Hype We finally turned off onto one of my favourite B-roads. just over 3 miles of everything
I checked with the salesman that he'd be okay if I "tested" it, he gave me the thumbs up and I dropped a gear and floored it
I **** you not, it was like the Devil had just popped in to say hello.
The Car stayed level, no squat at all and that quiet, sound proofed engine just went Ballistic
On song and on Boost it sounds great and there is a fantastic feeling of shove that isn't as violent as the scoobs, but it lasts longer. I charged off towards the horizon. A 90 degree left was waiting. I took my foot off the accelerator, went to the brake and irritatingly, the brake pedal stands proud of the other two pedals, so it catches in the welts of your footwear. I'm sure you'd get used to it, but along with the feeling of sitting on top of this ballistic machine, it was un-nerving. Having moved my foot over the brake, I hit the brakes probably 30m before I normally would in the scoob. No need, the brakes, although a little snatchy, are very good. that coupled with obvious advances in break distribution technology meant I'd breaked way to early. The net result was that I arrived in the corner in the wrong gear and to be fair, I could have gone round faster on my hands
Not to worry, it was my first HOT corner and there were plenty more to come.
I won't bore you with a corner by corner write up but in summary I truly believe that on country roads where caution, consideration for other road users and speed limits apply, there isn't much between them.
You can take your paper stats as much as you like, but in the hands of an average driver like myself (and lets face it, most of us
) The ST is an accomplished weapon. At the end of the b-road, I felt compelled to turn round and do it again. So I did
This time I was far more familiar and confident with this machine that I was sitting on top of. I switched the TC off and Oh Dear It transformed the handling for what I consider the worse. There was wheel spin everywhere. No matter how gently I drove and smoothly, how nanny-fied I became, it just span up the inside wheels. I tried all manner of different driving styles to try and rule out any particular cause, but they all resulted in the same outcome. I don't think it was sheer power but a suspension set up issue or dampers. Any corner with the slightest bump and whizz, off it would go. I'm sure on track it would be fine. But B-roads with TC off, isn't quick and is quite scary to be fair as you have very little directional traction whilst a wheel is spinning.
We got to the end of the b-road, turned onto the traffic laden A road and Satan got out
Yep the little monster that had just given me a whole load of emotions just 30 seconds ago had turned into just another Focus again. Quietly we slipped through the streets back to the dealership.I parked it up, listening to the inane ramblings of the ashen coloured salesman in the background, switched off and got out. As I walked away I turned round to catch another glimpse.
I Swear blind that Satan was sat in the back seat, winking at me
Marks
The Drive 5/10
The emotion 2/10
PLUS POINTS
Cheaper car of the two
Great sounding engine
Easy to pootle about in if you are not in the mood
Plenty of toys
Excellent Cabin and interior. A good place to be
Outstanding Chassis
Bang out of order brakes
BAD POINTS
Doesn't stand out from the crowd. Doesn't shout like a range topper should.
Raised brake pedal
Sat "on" rather than "in" feel
When pootling round town, you forget you are in a sports car. It's too quiet.
The difference between TC on and off is huge.
Salesmen that say they can hack it and then sit there grabbing at imaginary handles and pressing imaginary brake pedals
Unless you are pressing on, you don't get the sounds and feel of a sports car.There is no......... no............ rawness to it!
Suspect Gauges
Would I buy one......... NO....... Would I lease one?.................. I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand.
Tuesday sees me with he keys to a VXR. I'll keep you informed as to how it goes
Feel free to comment or ask further questions, but PLEASE keep your arguments, slagging matches and trolling about ST 'v' Scoobies out of this thread. Cheers
11 August 2006, 04:03 PM
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Mikey, keep the Scooby and get a normal day-to-day car for the mundane driving.
I've considered selling my Scooby several times over the last 2-3 years, but aside from 911 Turbos and Ferraris, okay, and the odd TVR, there isn't a car out there that sends the same tingles up your spine as the noise of a Scooby at full tilt.
It has to be said too, that the new Imprezas (standard) haven't the same rawness as the classics either. Rather refined. Quick, but refined.
I've considered selling my Scooby several times over the last 2-3 years, but aside from 911 Turbos and Ferraris, okay, and the odd TVR, there isn't a car out there that sends the same tingles up your spine as the noise of a Scooby at full tilt.
It has to be said too, that the new Imprezas (standard) haven't the same rawness as the classics either. Rather refined. Quick, but refined.
11 August 2006, 04:29 PM
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Hi Duck,
Dude, I can't DO mundane cars
Hat's off to you lot who drive a bag of spanners all week and manage to save yourselves for the "toy" at the weekends.
Not in my remit I'm afraid
Dude, I can't DO mundane cars
Hat's off to you lot who drive a bag of spanners all week and manage to save yourselves for the "toy" at the weekends.
Not in my remit I'm afraid
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11 August 2006, 04:38 PM
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I also test drove both, and in the end, went with the VXR.
Few things that will really stand out for you with the VXR, given your (very good) ST review, are its even quieter than the ST, even when pushing on, just makes a sucking sound, but there are exhausts available to release the engines "potential".
The second thing is the dash, its seen as being terrible by some people, to me personally, its functional enough, and doesnt look too bad.
Lastly, power delivery is a little strange. Its mapped so that max acceleration is achieved with the throttle hovering around half way, full throttle doesnt give full aceleration, which is why tuners can give it a simple remap, and up the power massively, and smooth the delivery so full throttle equals full power.
As far as driving experience is concerned, make sure you forget all the torque steer claims. Yes, it torque steers, inevitably, but its not too bad, and cornering etc is superb, providing you feather the throttle, and give it an appropriate amount of power for the situation, its not a car you can bowl into a corner at full throttle with.
Its much more immediate and exciting than the ST. Where the ST feels grown up, the VXR is just brutal, great fun!! the sport button has two settings, one where ESP remains on, and the other, hold it in for 5 secs, and you're on your own.
In Sport mode, acceleration is more instant than any car ive owned, and from low revs, it gives excellent power.
Its everything a mad hot hatch should be. It has its shortcomings, but for around £18k, its good value for what you get.
Shop around, I got extremely lucky, right place right time with cash got me one with 7 delivery miles, 19's, full leather, and climate control, for £16995 from a dealer, and for that money, its hard to find a new car that is as powerful and fun.
Few things that will really stand out for you with the VXR, given your (very good) ST review, are its even quieter than the ST, even when pushing on, just makes a sucking sound, but there are exhausts available to release the engines "potential".
The second thing is the dash, its seen as being terrible by some people, to me personally, its functional enough, and doesnt look too bad.
Lastly, power delivery is a little strange. Its mapped so that max acceleration is achieved with the throttle hovering around half way, full throttle doesnt give full aceleration, which is why tuners can give it a simple remap, and up the power massively, and smooth the delivery so full throttle equals full power.
As far as driving experience is concerned, make sure you forget all the torque steer claims. Yes, it torque steers, inevitably, but its not too bad, and cornering etc is superb, providing you feather the throttle, and give it an appropriate amount of power for the situation, its not a car you can bowl into a corner at full throttle with.
Its much more immediate and exciting than the ST. Where the ST feels grown up, the VXR is just brutal, great fun!! the sport button has two settings, one where ESP remains on, and the other, hold it in for 5 secs, and you're on your own.
In Sport mode, acceleration is more instant than any car ive owned, and from low revs, it gives excellent power.
Its everything a mad hot hatch should be. It has its shortcomings, but for around £18k, its good value for what you get.
Shop around, I got extremely lucky, right place right time with cash got me one with 7 delivery miles, 19's, full leather, and climate control, for £16995 from a dealer, and for that money, its hard to find a new car that is as powerful and fun.
11 August 2006, 04:49 PM
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Because Mikey knows I drive a vRS (okay, it's the Fabia) daily, and have my Scoob for the weekend... when I can be arsed to charge the battery
11 August 2006, 04:58 PM
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lol, alright for some, lol
seriously how does it compare, i realise it wont be much like, but is it fun to drive or is it just a case of it aint a scob but it'll get you from a to b?
seriously how does it compare, i realise it wont be much like, but is it fun to drive or is it just a case of it aint a scob but it'll get you from a to b?
(Never driver a Skoda)
11 August 2006, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tidgy
righto, vauxhall astra 888 diesel?
With a chip it is faster than a VXR and more ecconomical too
11 August 2006, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by www.GT4oc.com
Ive got a Astra Sport Hatch 1.9 CDTI with the exterior pack on.
With a chip it is faster than a VXR and more ecconomical too
With a chip it is faster than a VXR and more ecconomical too
how much grunt did that chip give you?
12 August 2006, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tidgy
lol, alright for some, lol
seriously how does it compare, i realise it wont be much like, but is it fun to drive or is it just a case of it aint a scob but it'll get you from a to b?
seriously how does it compare, i realise it wont be much like, but is it fun to drive or is it just a case of it aint a scob but it'll get you from a to b?
But... it is quick, especially in gear, which makes it less tiresome to drive. All the power and torque kicks in low down, and it really does kick too. Wheelspins in 3rd gear in the wet. The handling is not bad, and it is geniunely amusing to blast around B roads in. It's got bags of torque and has enough pace to surprise more expensive, faster cars on the motorway.
It's small but somewhat like a tardis, as it'll seat 5 people comfortably. Reasonable sized boot, and lots of mod-cons. Even looks pretty sporty...
The real benefits of it though come from the fact it'll do 60+ mpg on a run, is group 9 insurance, and can be left pretty much anywhere, without attracting attention.
Before the vRS I had a Rover 420Di. That was economical too, but so dull to drive. The "Furby" is a cracking car. As for badge snobbery - how can anyone with a Subaru pretend to be snobbish?
A scoob it ain't, but it is fun, and gets me from A to B, and then on to Z, without having to spend £50 every 220 miles
I just wish I'd bothered to clean both of them for that photo!
12 August 2006, 08:21 PM
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Why do numpties refer to the Astra as just the VXR? Particularly given there are a number of VXR derivatives....Astra, Corsa, Meriva, Monaro, Vectra, VX220 and Zafira. OK, you say Astra once you get into the post, but if you were going to have to just use the VXR moniker then you know you're going to have to get one of these:
Although to be honest, I think you are more suited to one of these:
Particularly given there are a number of VXR derivatives....Astra, Corsa, Meriva, Monaro, Vectra, VX220 and Zafira. OK, you say Astra once you get into the post, but if you were going to have to just use the VXR moniker then you know you're going to have to get one of these:Although to be honest, I think you are more suited to one of these:
12 August 2006, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SideShowBob
I
Lastly, power delivery is a little strange. Its mapped so that max acceleration is achieved with the throttle hovering around half way, full throttle doesnt give full aceleration, .
Lastly, power delivery is a little strange. Its mapped so that max acceleration is achieved with the throttle hovering around half way, full throttle doesnt give full aceleration, .
Sounds like my old asra gsi with the 2.0 xe engine. Sometimes part throttle and progressive throttle gave better than foot in the floor.
I agree with the comments on the ST visualy. Guy at my office has 1 and you could walk past it without turning you head it blends in so well.
