16vmarc

My dads dues to change his car in august (MkIV V6 4 Motion). Just looking at ideas at the moment, guy he works with has just bought the ST (in orange!) Now my dad bought the V6 2 weeks after he bought one, in the same colour!!! so isnt too keen on buying the same car as him again!

What are peoples opinions and what else should he consider? The fuel consumption of Imprezas has always put him off!, although the Golf isnt too good!

stilover

Well, if he ain't changing till August, wait till at least June to start thinking about what to get. Newer cars will be launched by then, so his choice should be bigger.
Of the 2 you mention, I'd go for the ST3 in Blue. So what if another guy has one, every member of a company can't all have different cars. At one point in the car park where I live, we had 3 M3's, all in Black, and all with optional 19" wheels.
I once Bought a 106GTI after my mate bought one, because he gave me a go of his, I liked it so I bought one. He didn't mind at all, but his Girlfriend (now Wife) went ******* off it. He had a red one & I had a Black one.

steppers

thinking about an st myself once ive sold me sti ppp
read loads of reports and the best models are the st 1 or 2not the 3
others are golf vr32 but way dearer or the astra vxr
focus came out best on all reports
im getting orange by the way

Rokerlad

Wait until the Leon Cupra comes out later in the year. Rumoured to be 240bhp and sub 20k.

NWMark

hows that the case! the only thing extra you get with the ST3 is leather and 6CD, so if you want leather seats the extra grand is worth it.

cant see how this makes the ST1 or ST2 better models as everything else is exactly the same.

Mark

VXRBOY

Get a VXR, will be less common,and looks the nuts, ST looks ****, especially in gay orange, and its slower. Estimated 0-60 is 6.5 slower than VXR but autocar siad they could only get 7.2.
The ST does seem to come out top in surveys, but for reasons such as smoother or comfy. Do you want to buy a ST only to be overtaken by a vxr and console yourself with well mine is smoother?

sgcooby

Major handling and grip problems versus excellent handling plus the great sounding engine in the ST and the lack of decent sound from the VXR. That was the major differences in most reviews. Oh and its smoother and comfier. There wasnt many areas that the VXR was better than the ST TBH in all the reviews ive seen.

SiDHEaD

Saw a VXR the other day (girlie driving) - first one i've seen on the road. Had something about it Not seen an ST yet - or maybe I just didnt notice it if i did (well it wont have been orange then...)

Steve vRS

Not a particularly good summation.

I think both cars are so close on performance that it's the other aspects that will swing it either way for people. I personally would need to drive both before being able to say which is best.

Steve

VXRBOY

Oh god not you again sgcooby, now don't throw your toys out the pram again, but
your opinion is based on ****, drive them and you will see, all this lack of grip rubbish is exactly that rubbish. And you must have seen very few reviews.

Moley

iTrader: (9)

What was your opinion of the ST when you test drove it?

Husaberk

Butting in if I may I've just got back from a test drive in the ST. All the reviews I seen about it are correct, it's a very fine car. Lovely noise, poise and go. Not the prettiest car ever though.

VXRBOY

It was a little boring, first impressions of the look do not help, inside the tacky bost guage looks bad (but i never like them anyway). Don't get me wrong, it was a nice car to drive, but that was it nice, nothing else. The steering was a little dull, and the seats were not a patch on the VXR's. Feels sort of fast but again not as quick as the VXR. Did not seem to have the sharp turn in that the VXR has. The engine did sound a little better though on the ST, but i'm getting the miltek exhaust for the VXR so that will change. And the interior was good, but i was driving my 53 plate wrx at the time, so propably a badly drawn conclusion on that.
And your going to think that i'm a bit of a tart here, but noone seemed to notice the ST.

sgcooby

Excuse me!! Calm down young man. I think the toys out the pram statement is a bit pot calling the kettle black you hipocrit. All i politely said was the reviews, of which there are a lot at present, comparing the latest hot hatches all favour the ST by a fair margin and not just on comfort. Just because you own a VXR does not make it the best car in the world. You dont have to respond in your half arsed rude manner every time someone posts something you dont like. Im not sure what you mean by ' not me again' I may be new here but ive been around a lot longer than you. Please try not to be so ignorant in the future after all the thread is about VXR v's ST so at least around half of the posters will have differing views to yourself. It is not a one man war you are fighting but you do seem to get all defensive whenever someone prefers others cars to your beloved vauxhall. In closing and in answer to your statement, I have read a lot of reviews on similar comparisons as i tend to buy every mainstream car publication on sale and I would tend to believe their conclusions (pretty much all in favour of ST or GTI ) rather than your limited experience and ignorant ramblings.

VXRBOY

I was refering to your other posts last week when you were clearly getting flustered by Gutmann pug and other people were laughing at you for the reaction you gave, i was just stating facts from my experience. And on another thing i saw a post from you that talked about the cars your dad has, i gather from this that the teachers in your school are not keeping an eye on you in lessons. And as for limited experience you must be joking.

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Agree with you there. Have seen both the ST and the VXR in the flesh recently. The VXR i recognised straight way, but with the Focus it wasn't quite so obvious what it was. (although the one i saw wasn't bright orange)

16vmarc

So, arguements aside Whats the best car around at the moment for 20k?

Stryder

I agree with this statement. In real world situations, there will be nothing in it. From what I've read, it does appear that the Focus is a better balanced car, with the Astra being quicker in a straight line. I don't think it is possible nowadays to exploit cars like these to there limits where you will find there ultimate abilities on the Queens highway. Horses for Courses I'm afraid. But if you forced me to choose, I would have a VXR in Black.

steppers

go on sgcooby get yer pennies worth in on vxrboy
eh vxrboy dosent the astra take 6.3 0-60 against 6.5 for the st
if im not mistaken that aint a trail blazin difference
as for turning in sharper you must be colin macrae the 2nd to notice that difference

i havent got either by the way just a humble sti with 4.6 0-60 before you say im taking sides
for the record i like both

sgcooby

Yawn.
23 posts and each one a classic.

I had just written a reply fitting your pathetic response but I deleted it as your really arent worth wasting any more of everyones time over. Please kindly though explain what anything you previously posted has to do with this topic? and I think you hve to get off the whole Father thing as Ive just got of your Mother but i dont go on about as it wasnt worthy of a post on here.

VXRBOY

Indeed (sgcooby) you really are about 12 aren't you. Come on, come clean.
Steppers Autocar said they could not get more than 7.2 from the focus 0-60 that is a second off the VXR. And no you don't have to be macrae, there is a difference, have a go and see for yourself. Its like theres a difference between the wrx and sti, it is there you can notice it.

sgcooby

Have you looked at the new golf GTI?? Maybe not as much power as the others but that doesnt seem to hamper it in performance comparisons too much. Or what about the new A3 with either the 2.0T FSI engine from the GTI or , budget depending, the 3.2 V6 or R32. The fact that he bought a 4 motion does that mean that he prefers 4wd??

sgcooby

If im 12 your Mum is in serious ****. Im curious, i thought you spoke from experience, so you keep saying, and when i refer to renowned publications for their opinions you state that these type of opinions mean **** unless ive driven the car myself. Not sure why I have to drive the car when Im quoting various proffesional roadtesters opinions but then youve got the cheek to use Autocars opinions to back your argument up. Consistent.

VXRBOY

I did not say the all reviews were ****, i said not all of them favour the ST or Golf, and the ones that do, do so for reasons that normally a person buying a hot hatch would think are not important, eg, red piping around the grill, easier radio to figure out, round gear **** like the original GTI, smoother (being honest you dont care about smooth if you drive a scooby) slightly better fuel economy, bigger back window.
And after having read all the reviews of these cars since last june, when the first one came out, then driving the ST and VXR i made my decision,(well i actually ordered the car in June and kept an eye out just in case, in the meantime driving both).
Do you really have to be paid for driving cars and writing about them to be able to assess it? You seem to have not seen the ones in which the VXR comes out top.

sgcooby

Now dont get me wrong as I dont just post things to wind you up, but you cant deny that there has been a lot of bad press about the VXR's handling and lack of front end grip. Someone else made a comment that the test cars were set up differently or had different suspension or something but has this been confirmed elsewhere? If it was just one review I could take it or leave it but there was certainly quite a lot of comments from various sources who made similar comments about the handling. If i was buying a car and read several similar conclusions i would certainly have my doubts and due to the fact that ive not heard many negative comments, about either the ST or GTI for example, I would be inclined to favour them. If there is evidence that the setup was different on the test VXR or that reviewers were all exagerating then I wouldnt have a problem with the VXR but why should all the reviewers exagerate as they are un biased as they probably dont own any of the cars they test. Im not biased either as i dont own either a ST or VXR and probably wont ever so if one is better than the other it makes no difference to me. But if i posted comments about how the scoob was better than the ST or VXR then people will obviously say im biased as i own one. As i said if there is evidence that the handling issues are sorted or test cars were setup differently then any other differences between the two cars are just minor and therefore choice would come down to personal taste.

Diablo

Mate,

At the end of the day, an Autocar review is generally one or two testers' personal opinion.

These guys are, and always will be be writers first, petrolheads second.

What matters is that your own personal opinion, not those of someone writing in a magazine.

From time to time the magazines, even the well known ones, produce opinions that are somewhat removed from those of the general public.

I used to know a guy who was a freelance motoring correspondant for the national press. An ex racer, he was an excellent driver and his opinion was one I would trust. There was more than one occasion when his review of a given vehicle was way off the opinions of Autocar and the like.

Autocar has a history of not knowing its **** from its elbow. Some of the writing is very good, some of it is simply laughable.

The ONLY way to pass judgement is to drive the car yourself and experience it first hand.

Evo mag hated the Focus RS. And yet now they have gone full circle.

Now, I'm not for one moment saying that Autocar is wright or wrong here, just that you cannot rely on the views of someone who covers limited mileage and produces an extremely subjective report. One man's poor turn in is another man's stability. Handling is very much a personal thing at this level, turn in cannot be measured by equipment.

The only thing I would place any reliance on in the magazines is the test data. And even that is sometimes iffy.

Autocar always launch a 4wd car by holding max revs and side stepping the clutch. Not always the quickest launch technique, but the one they always employ.

I recently read a review by clarkson which concluded that a car he was driving was "crap".

The reason? not the great engine, good build, fantastic handling. The reason it was crap was because it had restricted space in the back seats. Ok, so there is an element of sensasionalism in that review, but you get the point.

Many of the mags slated the Vectra Gsi when it was launched. Many on here did as well. And yet having ragged one half to death across varied roads in west central scotland I could find no fault with the performace or handling at insane speeds. A truly excellent allrounder. But you would never have even looked at the car based on many magazine reviews at the time.

I recall that the facelifted one was given much more favourable reviews. And yet despite what the magazines may have written, I was assured by someone at GM that the chassis was unchanged.

Thats not what they told the testers, of course, and surprise, surprise, the car was now much better.

It's laughable. The last generation Golf was said to be the class leader because of build and quality feel, yet it was perhaps the least inspiring handling car in its class. The new focus is said to be the class leader because of its handling...or is it the golf....tell me, what day is it again?

The inconsistencies are laughable and believeing all that you read just demontrates a certain naivety on your part.

sgcooby

An interesting point of view but I dont think its naieve to take anything from car reviews after all that is what they are carried out for. If you havent got access to various cars, not just exotica like ferraris but any type of car then really the easiest way to get an idea of a car is to read reviews. I do agree with you that some times a review of a car can be down to the reviwers personal tastes but my point was that there was a lot of reviews from different sources all saying a similar things about the VXR and it would be too much of a coincidence to assume they all had the same agenda or same tastes.

VXRBOY

Well said Diablo,

Diablo

LOL

No, its not what they are carried out for. They are carried out by the likes of Autocar to make money for the publishers.

Supply and demand mate, supply and demand.

sgcooby

It wasnt that funny tbh.

Autocar is just one mag. There are plenty other publications im sure who are run by or have people working for them who are car enthusiasts. If a journalist wanted to make money they could do so by writing for anyone but i dare say they write for car mags because they are genuinley interested in cars. Its a very cynical (spelling) attitude to claim they all do it for money and nothing else. I dont believe for a minute that and that does not make me naieve. Obviously the mag has to make money otherwise its fruitless running the business but i dont even think you believe that a lot if not most of them are not enthusiastic about cars. Just for arguments sake even if they are not that enthusiastic they are still more experienced in driving different cars than you or I are as thry must drive hundreds of different vehicles every year and for this reason alone their opinions do hold more validity than someone who has ,say, only ever owned and driven a handful of vehicles and is biased as he / she owns the vehicle they are commenting on.
Not everything is about money and supply and demand and nothing else. Hopefully you are not so cynical about everything in life.