SideShowBob

With a budget max of £16k, I want to get something fun for when Summer eventually arrives.
It needs to be a daily drive, so handle the crawl to work, and wont only be for Summer, so will need to useable on my lovely 5.30AM starts in the Winter.

I love the Elise, and 16k gets a really good S1, but its a serious compromise.
Things that I can think of that count against it are:
No ABS (my Cup doesnt have it either, but would prefer it)
Poor fit and finish
Ive heard tales of ice forming inside the windscreen in winter!! and cr*ppy heating too!!
Low on safety features, like airbags etc
Not much space at all

The S2000 just struggles into the 16k bracket, but im a little concerned it'll be all the rough models, but in its favour, its got everything the Elise doesnt have.
There's just something about a Lotus thou, they're really special, and even the name has something about it.

I suppose its not looking too good for the Elise, if I actually think about it, anyone use one as a daily drive? I cant have two cars, as in Elise and cheap runaround, no parking etc for that, so its got to be one car.

Anyone have any other ideas for a car? looked at the costs of, ahem, Porsche Boxsters, but insurance ws very high (more than my Jap import RX7 was!!). Its got to be convertable, have a good badge (sorry), and be a lot of fun.

Cheers
SSB

Simon S3

Bob, I`m with the Honda on this one, there are some nice ones in the latest Top Marques which will be in my budget next year, I love the Elise but the S2000 has always fascinated me.

scrappydog

SSB,

I would say, from your requirements, the S2000 has to be the thing. And that's comming from someone who owns an Elise!

*IF* you had mentioned that you wanted to have a car for occassional track days and one that would actually improve your driving (i.e. push your car control further, etc) then I would have no hesitation in recommending the Elise. S2000 is really nice and I was very close to buying one, but I had the luxuary of keeping the Scoob as well so I could justify an uncompromising car. Also, S2000 was a definate performance step down from the Scoob, in terms of acceleration and more importantly, handling. Seem to be a good selection under £16K (not ot mention loads of crash damaged ones under £12 ) so I think you'll get a good un. I guess you know that the handling was revised later on to make it a little less tail happy (bushings and softer ARB).

Initially I just ran the elise, with the Scoob tucked up in a garage. So I did use it as an everyday car, which was fine. But that was during the spring/summer. During the winter I've used it quite a bit, but to be honest I don't enjoy driving it when it's too cold and wet.

If you want to stay with newish cars then I can't really think of anything to compare. Doesn't sound like you'd want a Vauxhall VX220 (ABS & Airbag) since it's probably got the worste badge ever. Great cars though. For older cars, how about a Porsche 968 Cab or M3 Cab? M3 are *ridiculously* cheap at the mo.
TVR Chimera? - similar choice to the Elise really, quicker but handling not so sweat, less reliable and servicing is much more expensive.

Overall S2000 for £16K sounds like the things to get

Andy

Goochie

S2000. The only car that has not disappointed me in any way at all.

Go for a test drive and (roads permitting) you'll come back with a huge grin on your face.

bloke

Having had experience of both it has to be the Honda if it's an everyday drive...

Either way both are fantastic in their way

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

Easy decision - M Roadsters are dipping into this price bracket now.

D

Mark_BT52

Only car? Much as I love the Elise..., I wouldn't.

Mark

scrappydog

M Coupe - Yum
M Roadster - Yuk

I can see the attraction of the Roadsters; a bit like old Alfa V6s - you buy the engine and get the rest of the car as a bonus! Not really my sort of thing. I love the twisties and frankly the M Roadsters handling is a joke (albeit not a very funny one ;( ).

But, a worthy car to consider if that is your sort of thing.

Andy

14,500rpm

This is what you really want, deep down...:P

click

scrappydog

LOL

...and I thought we we talking about Performance Cars!

Andy

14,500rpm

Hey! it meetes all the criteria! well, dunno about fun as i've never driven one...must be OK surely?

But seriously, what about a MX-5 or MR-2?

Dracoro

It's a competent golf based convertible if a bit (lot) girly/gay. However a proper fast raw fun sports car it aint. If you're after driving thrills, the scoob/s2000/elise are in a different class to the Titty

I'd say the MX5 and MR2 aren't fast enough for what the poster wants.

Dream Weaver

Rev 3/4 MR2 Turbo

scrappydog

Scary! Driven a Biltz tuned one and that was RAW!

14,500rpm

I know what the poster really wants even if he's not admitting to it - and it's a competent golf based convertible

scrappydog

I don't think the poster thinks much of our "suggestions" because he's not replied to any!
Andy

14,500rpm

He's tucked up in bed I imagine.

2000TLondon

A convertible at around £16k, I'd be going straight for an old Porsche..... Not as cheap to maintain as the Honda, but...

911 (964 model) C2 Targa. 5 speed manual. A car we have sold in the past and a sensibly priced modern driving 911. The usual power steering, ABS brakes, electrics etc. Pictures to follow. £16,995 Millennium bug trade price £14,995.

http://www.911virgin.com/stock.htm

scrappydog

I dont think he wants to spend £2K per year keeping it on the road!

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a Porsche and was in exactly the same situation as the poster 18 months ago. Almost bought a 964 as my only car (did loads of research, etc), but it seemed madness to sell my Scoob (which had been so reliable) for a pitance and buy £16K of troubles & bills. I WILL buy an 964 coupe one day when I can afford the time or money to keep it on the road. But it is *not* a £16K car in the same sense as the Honda.

Andy

SideShowBob

So 14500RPM, you are implying I am girlie/gay? damn, I was trying to keep my sexuality off of the forum, but since you've mentioned it, may I also mention that the only reason you want me to get a TT is so you can look good in my passenger seat, babes

Cheers for the replies all, some good suggestions and recommendations, and looks like ill be looking at S2000's. Like the idea of an older M3, but insurance premiums are huge, but ill have a look about, perhaps get one slightly cheaper, and use the savings to sub the insurance.

Time to attack autotrader with a vengeance!! and make friends with my bank manager, althou as a their number one borrow-and-spend-it customer, im one of their extra special customers already!! Oh well, no point dying rich, so spend spend spend...

14,500rpm

You know it sweetie!

Hey, I'm getting an MX-5 so who am I to point fingers? You should at least have a go in a TT, I think its a good choice - just don't tell the rest of the team...

bumcrack

This is not really true if you can drive

S 2000 Impreza GT Turbo

Manufacturer Honda Subaru
Testing Date 1/2000 3/2000
Engine 1997 cccm, 4 Zyl , 16 V 1994 cccm, 4 Zyl , 16 V
Power 240 PS (176 KW) @ 8300/min 218 PS (160 KW) @ 5600/min
Torque 208 Nm @ 7500/min 290 Nm @ 4000/min
Transmission 0 (6) 0 (5)
Weight 1275 Kg 1290 Kg
Weight / BhP 5,3 Kg / PS 5,9 Kg/ PS
0 - 100 Km/h 6,2 s 5,8 s
0 - 200 Km/h 24,5 s 29,3 s
0 - 200-0 Km/h 29,8 s 34,9 s
Top Speed
241 Km/h 229 Km/h
80 - 120 Km/h 4.Gear 7,2 s 6,6 s
100 - 0 Km/h hot 36,1 m , 10,7 m/s 41 m , 9,4 m/s
Transverse Acceleration 1,1 g 1 g
Slalom Course 36 / 110m 118 / 128 Km/h 120 / 131 Km/h
Round Time Nuerburgring 8.39 min 8.37 min
Round Time Hockenheim 1.18,9 min 1.19,4 min

See the above, the S2000 beats the standard Impreza turbo to 125mph by 5 seconds, which is loads at that speed

Dark Blue Mark

Its also good with either nitrous or a Jackson supercharger. Either of which will punsh a mildly modded scoob

MB (always wanted a Honda)

ADP

Well I have an S2000(had a 250bhp WRX before) firstly whoever said it was a performance step down obviously never drove the thing!

That asside:

I love the Elise, very nearly bough one myself, however as a daily runner Im not so sure. From my point of view:

Elise has no boot really / Honda has plenty for weekend away with the mistress
Elise is averagely reliable / Honda likely to be bomb proof
Elise has a crap hood / Honda has an ace electric one
Elise has **** heater / Honda has good one

Elise is your out and out drivers car, but really the S2000 isnt that far behind it is still RWD with no traction control etc. Yes the Elise handles better, no question.

If I could afford a daily car and a weekend toy, the elise would win it, but as for a day to day car the Honda has it licked. They are very reliable and good for 100K plus miles without any doubt(like most good jap cars these days) so mileage or older cars are no problem, I have heard no horror stories (and I post on s2ki.com regularly)

scrappydog

Oh dear, I seemed to have in-advertantly rattled some cages. I don't disagree what's been said about WRX vs S2000 performance figures. My original comment we probably a little vague and a sweeping generalisation.

To put into context, I've driven both but never owned an S2000 so I would have probably found hidden depths in the S2000 had I owned one. Also, I was looking at the 1st gen S2000 which I felt had wooden steering (compared to Elise) and the chassis lacking the balance. Compared to the Scoob, I felt in real world driving (i.e. roads damp for much of the time) it really didn't feel that well planted for the power on tap. I believe the current S2000 is much improved on the limit handling and in the wet, but my overall feeling of the car was highlighted when Top Gear "raced" the S2000 against the CTR on a damp track and the CTR "won". I've no doubt that this test was probably contrived, but it did highlight the way I felt.

As I've said, from what the chap wants I have no hesitation in recommending an S2000 (again, even though I've never owned one!)

My comments we probably not detailed enough, but I think the reaction is a little bit OTT as well

Andy

PS. At the time I didn't really have a std Classic Scoob (PPP + extra boost, Prodrive suspension, etc), so I probably should have mentioned that too.

PPS. Comments about "learning how to drive" are not really that helpful. I think we are all trying to learn how to drive and I don't think that many people can claim to have cracked it all yet

bumcrack

Scappy, what might have been a better thing for me to say would be, "You'd have to a good driver to keep up witn an Impreza in a S2000, , even if the pliot isn't that good a driver. But never the less, believe me it can be done in the dry and on the track, the WRX had no chance on a recent track day outing. Wets a different story of course. I'm not rattled by your post btw, just want the truth to be known, like you say a bit vague and sweeping

Regards

scrappydog

Bumcrack,

what model year S2000 do you have? In your opinion, is there much difference between the handling of the original S2000 and the recent models?

I think the difference in chassic poise from std scoob to one with Prodrive suspension and decent tyres is massive. Likewise I hear that the chassis of the latest gen S2000 is a step above the original. If you factor these two things then you will understand my original post and why, at the time, I came to that conclusion. You "just want the truth to be known", in that case I think we ought to get the facts right first

There is no doubt the Honda engine is awsome, the build quality excellent, everyday usability very good, the styling IMO quite nice and the chassis OK.

Andy

ADP

the newer S2000 has revised suspension geom, dampers and springs from what I remember, this has once again been revised just recently........the original s2000 was def a bit of a hairy beast in comparison to later cars

scrappydog

IIRC the fundimental change was the REDUCTION of rear anti-roll bar stiffness, used in conjuction with stiffer springs and better matched damper settings. This additional compliance on control of the rear wheels probably did a lot to redress the handling balance. (Would have been nice if they'd got it right first time though)

In retrospect, I could have bought the S2000 and spent a bit of effort sorting the handling out but at the time the handling was a bit of an "unknown" quantity and certainly not on par with the rest of the package.

ADP - what MY is your S2000 and have you driven any of the early ones?

Andy

bloke

One problem with the early cars is they are very sensitive to geo problems which can make them a real handful. However IMHO a well set up older car is actually a better drive that a new one if set up right. Make sure you get the geo checked if it's an older car - and also bear in mind Honda have issues revised geo settings that makes the car drive more like a newer one (i.e. more forgiving).

The final thing to bear in mind is the OE Bridgestones are appalling in the wet, many people who drive all year round fit Gooyear F1's.