co55ie

4,500 Rs' will be built with around 2,500 coming to the UK the majority of these are allready sold. There is now a 6 - 12 month waiting list i believe.

The RS is a compromised car as JonIT states and this is why it has been marked down in may tests. As an out and out fun performance car it is unbeatable in the 20k sector at the moment.

Nice to see a sensible opinion on the car at last from a scoob owner.

DJ Dunk the RS uses the same steering setup as the ST170 focus

[Edited by co55ie - 12/10/2002 6:59:48 PM]

rich uk300

co55ie i drive on britains finest roads and not on the track where all weather conditions come into play so will not be concerned about focus until the proper one comes out

and why do you continue to post on here when you clearly know so little about subaru's reliability/performance/power figures.....think the ford bbs is where you should be

why should i when i've got 300bhp

[Edited by rich uk300 - 12/10/2002 11:40:10 PM]

co55ie

Saxo boy the Elise is actually slightly quicker in a straight line than the RS. The RS has it licked in the cornering dept so I guess your wrong again.
The RS is as stated also a quicker car than an STi or P1 like it or lump it thats the way it is. Unless of course every test has been wrong and biased with dodgy timing gear being used for the scoob. I think you will get the shock of your life Saxo boy if you should ever come head to head with one you won't know which way it went it will leave you for dust in your muddy lane.
I do agree though that a VTS would wipe the floor with a WRX as we all saw how a WRX struggled with a entry level Mondeo.
The Subaru performance Myth is rapidly being dispelled.
Now lets wait for the **** and bo11ocks comments as the scoobsters cannot back up their arguement with any facts.

[Edited by co55ie - 12/11/2002 5:04:54 PM]

chrisp

Yep saw the times and then saw this about the Autocar test, makes interesting reading :

http://www.pistonheads.com/truth/def...p?storyId=5386

[Edited by chrisp - 12/11/2002 9:52:56 PM]

Jon1T

Well, I finally managed to get my drive of an RS Focus yesterday and here are my thoughts. (My motor is a MY02 with full decat, - I'm a biker and have a Nat B race licence, so I'm a kind of amateur driver, but I'm not a journo and I don't know all the technical details so forgive me):

Starting with the boring stuff, when you sit in the car, the interior is stock Ford Focus - you could be in a boggo Zetec - except for the awful two-tone wheel and the race seats (which are based on standard Focus seats). Only racy touches are the sparco handbrake and alloy pedals and the green start button by the handbrake. Otherwise nothing special.

Again when you start the car, the engine note is nothing special, and moving around town the ride is firm but not rock-hard. Othewise it is as easy to drive at low speeds, the gearchange is slick, the clutch is not grabby, and it pulls from low down.

But enough of the boring stuff, what's it like to drive? It's awesome, but you need to continually be on the ball when you push it - it's completely unforgiving.

The engine is quiet from inside the car, and suprisingly you don't hear anything much under acceleration. But it pulls strongly from around 2000 rpm right round to around the 6000 mark. But it's a progressive power delivery - no Scooby shove in the back - but it is bloody quick. Driving on the motorway is good - it pulls instantly from whatever speed you're going in whatever gear - it's fairly quiet inside the cabin as well, although there is a lot of tyre noise. The guy that was on here talking about how he'd wasted one with his nearly standard 'classic' - I don't think so mate.

Powering round bends, or on bumpy roads, the jittery secondary ride characteristics become evident - hitting a pothole or dip - BAM - you're on the other side of the road. There is absolutely no compliance in the suspension - it is rock hard. But the upside is that the steering is beautiful, and you can place the car with absolute pin-point accuracy. Unbelieveable. Until the diff comes into play.

As the diff loads (say exiting a roundabout under power) the steering wheel is pulled to the centre and the car follows, then as it unloads the steering wheel slackens off, and the car wanders back to it original path. It's real white knuckle stuff and a bit scary until you get used to it - but it's massive fun!

It's not torque steer as anyone who's driven a trad front wheel turbo knows (montego turbo, Rover 620ti where your fighting to stay on the road, sawing away at the wheel when the turbo boots in) all those who talk about massive torque steer are talking b*llocks. It's just the diff loading and unloading, and it's over in a moment - a tug on the wheel, it slackens and you're on your way.

I loved the Focus - its quick in every respect. Really quick. I think the main difference between the scoob and the Focus is that over a B-road run, the scoob will flatter a bad driver, while the Focus will punish them - but with good drivers, the Focus would slaughter the Scoob. Going back in the Scoob, the steering felt vague, and you have that old problem of nothing happening below 3000prm. But with a bit of a 'race', in a straight (ish) road, my scoob caught the Focus up and closed in on it when the boost came on - but mine's got 240bhp as opposed to 212bhp.

It is an awesome car that demands respect from us scooby drivers. Would I want a Focus - well no. Because I couldn't live with it every day, with the wife and kid in it. You'd want it for the weekend..(Clarkson voice)...and it'd be brillant.

But a Focus Cosworth....hmmmm

EvilBevel

Give that man a cigar. The problem with the car being nerveous is mainly due to the suspension, not the Quaife ATB. Exactly as you describe.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

If "But with a bit of a 'race', in a straight (ish) road, my scoob caught the Focus up and closed in on it when the boost came on - but mine's got 240bhp as opposed to 212bhp".

Then with a MY02 with all that weight, so a classic that's got 240bhp would be better, would it not? So wasting an RS on a bumpy B road will be a reality in a modded classic.....

F

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

Jon1T - Does the RS have Electric Power Steering ? This seems to be the main cause of yanking to the other side of the road in the Civic Type-R.

Devil's Refugee

Let's not go down the "my nuts are bigger than your bolts" route please.

Respect for a good and unbiased analysis of the RS mate.

mutant_matt

Jon,

Good unbiassed write up DJ, no it's not the Power Stering, it's the Front LSD (Limited Slip Differential).

Matt

RB5320

Interesting. Thanks for posting that. I am still comsidering getting one. I have my name down for a test drive in a week or so and then have the option of buying the car if I like it (it is available due to a cancelled order, but I am not going to say where it is so dont ask!). I dont really intend to buy as I am very happy with the RB5 but you never know.
Its interesting what you say about good and bad drivers. The Scooby is flattering to the driver without a doubt. The RS was designed to be an enthusiasts car. All of the brochures etc made a big thing of that, so it is not supposed to be a car that Joe Bloggs can jump into and blast around in.
By the sound of things, my RB5 WR may well be quicker than the RS on bumpy roads, but to be honest - who cares? For me it is not how long it takes me to get from A to B, it is about how big a smile I have at the end of it.
Anyway, I am certainly looking forward to a test drive.

Steve

Andy Mid.

nice sensible review

what did you make of the Brembo's ?

Crush

Good Review mate! Much better than the other crap which people have just read out of magazines

LG John

I hate fords and I hate the focus RS but I respect your very well written write up and believe it to be a very good car on the basis of it. Well done

The only part I'd potentially disagree with is that a good focus driver will will waste an impreza on a b-road. An equally good impreza driver will make the 4WD work for him/her as opposed to against him/her, as it does 90% of the time, and make it a very even shootout.

chrisp

No axe to grind then Jon

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadid=156545

Good and fair report though

wos 69

Crush,
5-1 10pages on this one.

co55ie

Lol at Saxo boys comments you would have to spend a lot of cash to get your Impreza to handle anywere near aswell and stop aswell.
Most of the problems on the RS are caused by the rather hard suspension set up and 18" wheels causing skipping and tramlining I would have thought that was obvious.
A very good unbiased review by whoever wrote it. Glad you enjoyed the Focus and realise the potential of the car and the fact that it was designed for outright performance and not every day creature comforts.

Jon1T

Crisp - that's about the financial aspects of owning a scoob - nothing to do with the driving experience. You get these down periods where you get stuck in traffic, spend a fortune on fuel etc etc, then you get a good clear piece of road and you love it again . FYI - I like my Scoob again and won't be selling it - mainly because I appreciate it's other qualities after driving the Focus - the fluidity, the kick in the backside of the turbo and the comparitive refinement, believe it or not!

Thanks for the comments - I'm your average car punter, I don't work for Ford or Subaru and I wanted to tell it as I saw it. I drove the Focus expecting to be disappointed with it - instead I loved it - it put a real grin on my face. But day in day out, I would probably hate it....

I get fed up with all these eyjits who make assertions that 'scoobs will waste Focus' and 'no, Focus will waste scoobs', when the closest they've come to one or either car is having a tug in the bogs over the latest edition of Max Power.

They're both good cars, but they do different things. One thing though - Scoob need to permanently review their pricing structure, because there is no way in my book they can have the bare-faced cheek to charge £21 for a standard WRX, when the Focus is £20. Make the WRX nearer 18k to compete with Civic type R and Seat Cupra R and it'll do a good job. Move the sti nearer £21 to compete with Focus, Golf R32 and the Evo 8.

IMHO!

Crush

LOL Early indications would suggest so!

Carlos The Jackel

as you havent driven it and probably wont (due to your large dislike for Fords) that is merely a guess.

Having driven someones MY00 Turbo a few times I actually enjoyed my Old Fiesta Turbo more as it was more of a challenge to drive - no suspension give at all - Basically gave ME more fun than driving the scoob, thats mostly what its about.In fact I had more fun in my old 1.9 Diesel 205 than in the RS or Scoob at a far lower speed. Its all completly personal - Who cares how fast something can get you from A-B? Its how much you enjoy it surley, which is why some people swear by RWD I think more appreciation should be shown for different cars on here. [whisper mode on]I currently drive the Girlfriends 1.9D Citreon ZX and show it some bends and its tremendous[whisper mode off]

LG John

I'll call it an educated guess Bottom line is the cars would so close that it comes down to the driver 99 times out of 100 anyway. Did John F not hump turbos round a track in a sport? I'd happily drive a Focus RS if I had the chance but it seems test drives are rare at the moment.

Also, don't forget the difference between 'fun' and 'fast' CtheJ My VTS was lots of fun but my scooby would trounce it through the twisties. Not going to argue co55ie: I've not spent too much on my car but I wouldn't fear a focus RS in a like4like driver scenario

ozzy

Why is it when someone writes something like "car x will easily beat a scoob from a to b" or "car x has better handling and brakes than your scoob", people read "your car is a bag of sh!te and you have a small *****" ????

That's my impression from most of these unbiased discussions. Unless you've actually driven both cars in question, you can only guess which one is better or not.

I'm interested to hear from someones experience of the new Ford and it would make me take one for a test drive to see what it's really like.

Maybe the RS does have a better suspension and brake setup out-the-box than a std WRX, but who cares. If I bought any car and found the std brakes sh!te, I'd just upgrade them. If I liked the rest of the car that much, it wouldn't put me off it, Ford, Subaru or whatever.

Stefan

chrisp

4+K cheaper (euro WRX) buys you a lot of mods, suspension, brakes, engine upgrade LOL.

Diesel

200 BHP + into FWD doesn't go! I know which side my bread is buttered!

chiark

Just as an observation, my scoob tramlined like hell when it was new. Changing the tyres sorted this.

Is there any way on earth that wheel/tyre choice could explain the pulling, or is it definitely just the diff?

Excellent write up Jon, cheers

wacky.banana

JoIT,

Congratulations on a sensible write up.

WB

co55ie

It now seems that everyone agrees that you would have to spend 4 - 5 k modding your scoob wrx to get similar performance to a standard RS.
How will any scoob fair against the 260 bhp upgrade which may be a warranty friendly upgrade offered by Mountune ?
Diesel I think that The RS has proved that 200bhp into FWD does go.

Jon1T

chiark - I'm no expert on how torque-biasing diffs work, I'm no chassis engineer, but the quaife diff is not responsible for the car being knocked off course by potholes etc as it only operates under certain conditions where it needs to transfer torque to the rear wheels. This is more obviously due to spring/damper rates, bushing, and wheels/tyres (although more due to the profile which is only 40, rather than the tread pattern). Anyone with more knowledge?

Diesel - 250bhp goes into FWD as Alfa GTA shows....

chrisp

Spend 4-5K on a scoob and RS wont know which way it went . Its close on paper when they are both standard . You will need the 260bhp mod to keep up after 4-5K on the WRX, in the dry anyway .

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Cossie,
Subaru have been doing warranty friendly performance upgrades/parts for years (brakes, suspension, interior/exterior parts and performance upgrades) but i really doubt that ford would go with such an idea as its not the strongest of engines that they are using (plus look at all the recalls the focus in standard form has had so far )
Jon also stated that for an everyday car he would not buy it but for a weekend car he would.... i suppose it shows you that it can be tiring over time and lots of concentration when driving it would do that.
I still feel that alot of people, hardcore and non-hardcore RS owners would tire of the Focus RS very quickly if it was their first choice (and only) car, and ford will need to pull their finger out to get anywhere near its rivals to sell this good but still flawed car.

Tony