...This time, allegedly manipulating oil prices!(?)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ene...#disqus_thread

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ene...igged-too.html

(If true(?)... I shouldn't sound surprised. )


True?... Or sensationalism? Discuss...

 

Nothing that hasn't been known for years.

Humans are involved. Anybody here would have done the same in a "voluntary" market where no actual crime is being committed. All day long. But i'd also concede that there does need to be a proper validation process, not that it will make much difference to prices, but so that everybody can trust those prices and move on with their lives and focus on something more worthwhile.

 

Thing is, in big business, it's all "I'll scratch your back, if you scratch mine". And that includes the politicans. They... are all in it together.

Always will be...

 

Is it really that hard to have a law that makes rigging a market price a criminal offence?

dl

 

I agree DL.

But it's because the politicians are on the make too - so such a law "just wouldn't do."

 

The problem, David, is that these prices are often based on hypothetical markets, ie there isn't an actual trade to back up where a price level is set. So there's all sorts of suggestions about forcing the rate-setters to do a real trade so that it can all be vetted, but even that's potentially open to abuse between mates. They'll come up with something though, they have to now.

 

Is there anything more gratifying than banker bashing ?

Inbetween catholic ministers and mp's

 

Fair enough although I'd have thought that there were enough real trades going on to form the basis of true market rates. Much of it is based on Platts isn't it but is that rigged too?

Certainly if i was a trader and knew that I might face gaol I would think twice even if it meant my new Porsche might be on hold

david

 

If only we still had ye olde worlde "gaols" in which to incarcerate them!

Proper punishment.

 

Or even the stocks........

Of course if a couple of them were hung, drawn and quartered and left outside Old Street tube that would end all the nonsense immediately but even I accept that is going a bit far



(I suppose)

dl

 

Hanged.

Funny you should mention that, I was reading up on that other day!

 

Not strictly true. Hung, drawn and quartered is one of the "allowed" exceptions, probably just because it's just easier to say. There's a pub fairly close to me in Landan by the very name...

 

Sure.

But I'm a 'purist'.

Otherwise known as a tw@t.

 

Phew - rescued by Telboy


Meat is hung

Humans are hanged!!

So that just leaves us with drawn and quartered. Well that's a start anyway

dl

 

Don't know what all the fuss is about with bankers. My bank has given me a fantasitc rate on my mortgage and credit card and my ISA and pensions funds are doing particularly well too. The majority of banking staff deserve their bonuses.

 

"Drawn" is a point of contention too.

- Some think it was referring to the act of being drawn i.e. the condemnded being bound to a gibbet or 'sled' and "drawn" by horse to the gallows.

- Others think it was the incision up the thorax prior to the disembowling/quartering.

If you take the words in their strict chronological order, then it would suggest the latter.

 

Bishop Bashing ?

 

lol

 

Will you marry me?

 

Drawing would been been reserved for the Diamonds of this world ?

Taken down only half dead from hanging

 

market rigging is soo yesterday (the oil price story is a few days old)

the new "black" is money laundering drug and terrorist cash

 

Really??

If anyone is found to have been doing that then they really will need some extra jail spaces. Libor tweaking is one thing, washing dirty money is absolutely another thing. I seriously doubt if there are any catastrophic revelations to come in that sphere.

 

Something has to be done by us - the people, we run the country not the politicians. They need a kick up the jacksy.

 

"HSBC provided a conduit for "drug kingpins and rogue nations" according to a US senate committee investigating money laundering claims at the bank.

A Senate report said suspicious funds from countries including Mexico and Syria had passed through the bank.

HSBC is set to apologise for its wrong-doing when officials give their evidence at Tuesday's Senate hearing."

 

Well that seems very straightforward:
They did wrong,
They got caught,
They give a sincere apollogy.

What more can you ask for?

 

Ok they transgressed SEC rules in some capacity by accepting funds from suspicious countries without doing sufficient checks. Slap on the wrist but that's not the same as deliberately washing dirty money. A bank could pretty much be closed down if it was found to be doing that as part of its daily activities. I know, i go on more money laundering courses than you can shake a marijuana plant at.

 

Am I the only one that doesn't give a sh*t?

 

i don't either

 

Wachovia (now owned by Wells Fargo) didn't get closed down and they were in it up to their necks. It seems that banks can simply side-step justice by settling out of court for trifling sums. Wachovia laundered the thick end of $400bn and had to pay a fine of $160m. And this is why they do it.

 

I understand what you're saying. Wachovia was guilty in the same way HSBC was in that the funds "could" have originated from illegal activities. That's why the SEC and FSA have a fines policy in place, to deter. But unless and/or until you eliminate humans from banks, temptation will always rear its ugly head at some point, somewhere. I'm not trying to justify it but i'm also saying that it probably happens in all sorts of industries the world over, it's just never seen or punished or publicised.