Braveheart
04 May 2007, 07:22 PM
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Seriously though Stephen, Scotland depends on England financially: the nation contributes far less than it takes out. Without England where would Scotland be? Bear in mind too, that part of the union deal was a too large representation in Parliament. There are many more Scottish MPs relative to area or population, than there are English ones. The net result would be no more Labour governments, ever, which is something in your nationalistic favour at least.....
Simon
Simon
04 May 2007, 07:29 PM
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04 May 2007, 07:32 PM
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Seriously though Stephen, Scotland depends on England financially: the nation contributes far less than it takes out. Without England where would Scotland be? Bear in mind too, that part of the union deal was a too large representation in Parliament. There are many more Scottish MPs relative to area or population, than there are English ones. The net result would be no more Labour governments, ever, which is something in your nationalistic favour at least.....
Simon
Simon
Seriously, i work for an english company well english & spanish & the change's we have seen under labour in the UK have crept up our lending due to higher interest rates. My feeling towards labour doesnt bear thinking about.
Its time for a change & what we have at the moment a change wouldnt make it worse.
Labour have made our Island the laughing stock of the world.
Its time for them to be ousted & fresh ideas brought in to save us.
Last edited by sti-04!!; 04 May 2007 at 07:36 PM.
04 May 2007, 07:46 PM
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I take it you also thought when Alex Salmond stated Scotland could be financially independent, he was chief adviser to the Royal Bank of Scotland who don't seem to be off too bad. but back to point the Tories said it was untrue. Only to be found out under the freedom of information last year that it was true and the Civil Servants advised the Tories accordingly.
Next point why would we need to be dependant on Southern England, we have natural resources that Southern England totally lack. Per capita London and the people of the South England are far more financially propped up.
Think of all the saving we will make, we won't have Trident, we wont need to keep your nuclear waste, we can live quite happily on our own resources thank you very much, very power rich in natural resources like wave, wind or oil.
If you wish to bring your begging bowl I think we could open the gate for old times sake and give you some water, we are very abundant in that resource, is London.
04 May 2007, 08:01 PM
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I think sending the English home may be a tad extreme 
, but there's a lot to be said by the number of seats gained by SNP this time round compared to the last election. It's quite clear Scotland wants and NEEDS a change. The parliament hasn't really served Scotland's interests fully yet; I'm intrigued and excited to find out what this brings for us.
I'm off out to celebrate this evening with Mr Pete Tong in a shopping centre wearing my favourite Yellow top hee hee
, but there's a lot to be said by the number of seats gained by SNP this time round compared to the last election. It's quite clear Scotland wants and NEEDS a change. The parliament hasn't really served Scotland's interests fully yet; I'm intrigued and excited to find out what this brings for us.I'm off out to celebrate this evening with Mr Pete Tong in a shopping centre wearing my favourite Yellow top hee hee
Last edited by eClaire; 04 May 2007 at 08:04 PM.
04 May 2007, 08:11 PM
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You hate the English dont you Bram? Have you read any Irvine Welsh books?
Your sentance makes poor grammatical sense, perhaps you were too wound-up as you were typing?
Far from being 'Labour scare mongering' as you mistakenly presume, it comes from a speech by John Major (on why he rejected the notion of independance) and the information was provided by the BoE, I believe.
I find myself agreeing with you though. If all Scots are like you then we are better breaking the union and seeing the back of you. Youll be f*cked then though, with no English to blame for everything.
Your sentance makes poor grammatical sense, perhaps you were too wound-up as you were typing?
Far from being 'Labour scare mongering' as you mistakenly presume, it comes from a speech by John Major (on why he rejected the notion of independance) and the information was provided by the BoE, I believe.
I find myself agreeing with you though. If all Scots are like you then we are better breaking the union and seeing the back of you. Youll be f*cked then though, with no English to blame for everything.
04 May 2007, 08:16 PM
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Its not all cut and dry yet. This break through from single party dominance has a way to go over the next few days or weeks.
1. Election of first Minister (should be Alex)
2. Who is supporting SNP, Lib Dem not much between them on manifesto except for referendum on independence, the Green will support the main party who won by election vote on a vote by vote basis.
3. Will the Lib/Dem get additional point on the ballot, will it be enough to power share
The most important fact that I see we will have a true debate among all parties, they all have a say and the Scottish Parliament nae the people/electorate will be the better for it.
If we can get away from Party Politics and get honest debate with MSP having to be present at votes as every vote is needed, its that close. A hard worked MSP now there's a thought.
Alex Salmond said the most important point tonight, the MSP are there for the electorate not the parties, that includes the SNP independence theme, he wants Scotland to be better. Good sentiments now lets see it in practice as long as Party politics don't crap on the democratic process.
I can't wait for the next four years to see if Democracy is what its all that it is cracked up to be. Or we deserve political one man past the post elections. Its a wait and see.
1. Election of first Minister (should be Alex)
2. Who is supporting SNP, Lib Dem not much between them on manifesto except for referendum on independence, the Green will support the main party who won by election vote on a vote by vote basis.
3. Will the Lib/Dem get additional point on the ballot, will it be enough to power share
The most important fact that I see we will have a true debate among all parties, they all have a say and the Scottish Parliament nae the people/electorate will be the better for it.
If we can get away from Party Politics and get honest debate with MSP having to be present at votes as every vote is needed, its that close. A hard worked MSP now there's a thought.
Alex Salmond said the most important point tonight, the MSP are there for the electorate not the parties, that includes the SNP independence theme, he wants Scotland to be better. Good sentiments now lets see it in practice as long as Party politics don't crap on the democratic process.
I can't wait for the next four years to see if Democracy is what its all that it is cracked up to be. Or we deserve political one man past the post elections. Its a wait and see.
04 May 2007, 08:17 PM
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I don't think the Scots blame the English for anything. What a strange thing for the simon69 to say. I think the vast majority of Scots don't want independence. As we know The Union benefits us greatly.
Hepy. Scottish, British, and proud of it.
Hepy. Scottish, British, and proud of it.
04 May 2007, 08:21 PM
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[quote=Simon 69;6895364]You hate the English dont you Bram? Have you read any Irvine Welsh books?
Your sentance makes poor grammatical sense, perhaps you were too wound-up as you were typing?
Try spell check before talking grammar!
Why would I hate the English, do you deserve such accolade.
Your sentance makes poor grammatical sense, perhaps you were too wound-up as you were typing?
Try spell check before talking grammar!Why would I hate the English, do you deserve such accolade.
04 May 2007, 08:27 PM
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I'm not overly keen on this self-righteousness, for lack of better words, that some English seem to be donning. I don't think Salmond would push for independance if it wasn't financially viable. Now, clearly it's not going to be happening any time soon, but if we take the necessary steps I believe it IS possible. Eventually.
Hiya Jamie, my wee English pal (see, I don't hate the English )
Hiya Jamie, my wee English pal
(see, I don't hate the English )
04 May 2007, 08:43 PM
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I used to be very pro-union / anti-devolution.
Personally right now I think every Englishman should push as hard as possible, not for an English parliament, not for regional assemblies but the dissolution of the union.
Tell scotland to f off. (we'll all come and help build the wall). Wales can make a simple choice - in or out with no half measures.
A situation where we have a Scottish PM dictating policy to English voters that has no impact on those who elected him is untenable. If the next General election is close and the only way for Labour to form a government is with the support of Scottish MPs, there will be a real upsurge of anger. Another of B.Liar's legacies - broken devolution.
I hope Alex Salmond makes the most of the next 2 years - he has the oppurtunity to do England a very real favour. If he does get to hold his referendum in 2010 - I suspect he will be able to count on the support of a lot of people south of the border. I might even go and help the SNP deliver leaflets etc. myself.
Personally right now I think every Englishman should push as hard as possible, not for an English parliament, not for regional assemblies but the dissolution of the union.
Tell scotland to f off. (we'll all come and help build the wall). Wales can make a simple choice - in or out with no half measures.
A situation where we have a Scottish PM dictating policy to English voters that has no impact on those who elected him is untenable. If the next General election is close and the only way for Labour to form a government is with the support of Scottish MPs, there will be a real upsurge of anger. Another of B.Liar's legacies - broken devolution.
I hope Alex Salmond makes the most of the next 2 years - he has the oppurtunity to do England a very real favour. If he does get to hold his referendum in 2010 - I suspect he will be able to count on the support of a lot of people south of the border. I might even go and help the SNP deliver leaflets etc. myself.
04 May 2007, 08:47 PM
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I dont need one thank you Bram, my spelling and grammar are quite good enough: you know that it was a typo.
Because I am half Scottish I feel strongly about this and English-hating/blaming really p*sses me off. Im yet to hear a good reason to break the union if, in fact, it can be broken. It usually comes down to bigoted anti-English feeling rather than credible reasons.
Because I am half Scottish I feel strongly about this and English-hating/blaming really p*sses me off. Im yet to hear a good reason to break the union if, in fact, it can be broken. It usually comes down to bigoted anti-English feeling rather than credible reasons.
04 May 2007, 08:53 PM
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04 May 2007, 09:02 PM
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It will be four years DS.
With devolution I find myself less and less interested in London politics. The only time I switch on to listen is if it effects me here in Scotland.
As for wall/fence/moat we are still part of the EEC free borders or has that bit of being European and part of EEC passed you by.
As for Scots/English/Welsh freedom to work is another EEC directive, we can't leave that easy.
The only point about Devolution that would not suit the English electorate would be the South/North divide. Looking at your local elections this week there are still alive and kicking, no Tories in councils in Liverpool/Manchester/Newcastle, I wonder why.
In all likelihood the division within England is more a stumbling block than poor ol Scots and Welsh. You need to get your own house in order before thinking fractionating will work in a English back drop.
As for our MP's in Westminster totally agree, boot them out when we leave, you need them up to then you don't seem to run a country without our assistance, economically or politically.
With devolution I find myself less and less interested in London politics. The only time I switch on to listen is if it effects me here in Scotland.
As for wall/fence/moat we are still part of the EEC free borders or has that bit of being European and part of EEC passed you by.
As for Scots/English/Welsh freedom to work is another EEC directive, we can't leave that easy.
The only point about Devolution that would not suit the English electorate would be the South/North divide. Looking at your local elections this week there are still alive and kicking, no Tories in councils in Liverpool/Manchester/Newcastle, I wonder why.
In all likelihood the division within England is more a stumbling block than poor ol Scots and Welsh. You need to get your own house in order before thinking fractionating will work in a English back drop.
As for our MP's in Westminster totally agree, boot them out when we leave, you need them up to then you don't seem to run a country without our assistance, economically or politically.
04 May 2007, 09:03 PM
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Simon,
The same as i have ancestry rights to every country in the union.
I quote the words of a famous song
" and send them home again to think again"
Bite Me
04 May 2007, 09:07 PM
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Im fiercely proud of my kilt, I suspect that youre only joking though.
04 May 2007, 09:09 PM
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04 May 2007, 09:11 PM
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We all have a choice, and we must be left to live our own life no matter how it pains you not to be needed any more. Its part of life and growing up. 300 years at home is long enough, the room needs decorated.
Last edited by Bram; 04 May 2007 at 09:19 PM.
