== Need some career advice from IT/HR type people please ==
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Scooby Regular
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Hi all
- I am 24. Graduated from Uni. 3 years ago with a degree in sport.
- Got accepted on a graduate recruitment scheme with Cap Gemini Ernst and Young as a programmer. Since then have been in an OS390 Applications Management role for a large media/communications client, using COBOL, FOCUS (4GL), Easytrieve+ along with some PC Support work and some very minor Intranet alterations.
- The contract of this assignment expires in March 2002 and people are being reassigned up until then to new roles.
- My dilemma is that:
a) I don't feel that my current skills are particularly marketable or in demand
b) I want to get in to some VB or web development work, but my company are reluctant to offer any cross training in the present economic climate
- Therefore, the advice I would like is how to go about changing my direction within the IT industry?
- I am doing a VB Level 1 course at college but I don't think that would secure me a job. I have taught myself HTML and designed a website and I am now teaching myself Dreamweaver.
- I do not particularly want to leave CGEY but I do not want to be reassigned to a mainframe dev/support role when I know that there is not a huge future there and it is not what I really want to do. I want to get a good solid grounding in a some skills that will serve me well for years so that I can build a good career.
- I have enquired about doing a CIW web training course but it would cost me about £5000 and I already have student loans.
- If anybody would like my CV or has any advice I would be more than grateful
Kind regards
Rikki
- I am 24. Graduated from Uni. 3 years ago with a degree in sport.
- Got accepted on a graduate recruitment scheme with Cap Gemini Ernst and Young as a programmer. Since then have been in an OS390 Applications Management role for a large media/communications client, using COBOL, FOCUS (4GL), Easytrieve+ along with some PC Support work and some very minor Intranet alterations.
- The contract of this assignment expires in March 2002 and people are being reassigned up until then to new roles.
- My dilemma is that:
a) I don't feel that my current skills are particularly marketable or in demand
b) I want to get in to some VB or web development work, but my company are reluctant to offer any cross training in the present economic climate
- Therefore, the advice I would like is how to go about changing my direction within the IT industry?
- I am doing a VB Level 1 course at college but I don't think that would secure me a job. I have taught myself HTML and designed a website and I am now teaching myself Dreamweaver.
- I do not particularly want to leave CGEY but I do not want to be reassigned to a mainframe dev/support role when I know that there is not a huge future there and it is not what I really want to do. I want to get a good solid grounding in a some skills that will serve me well for years so that I can build a good career.
- I have enquired about doing a CIW web training course but it would cost me about £5000 and I already have student loans.
- If anybody would like my CV or has any advice I would be more than grateful
Kind regards
Rikki
Scooby Regular
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There are a load of free VB tutorials at http://www.lifesupportal.com/cgi-bin/php.cgi/freetutorials.php?vs_category=16
Problem is that people often look for experience, not just knowledge. The other option is to look more at the .NET stuff (like VB.NET or even C#) - as these are new skills they may be in demand more in the not too distant future.
All the best
Problem is that people often look for experience, not just knowledge. The other option is to look more at the .NET stuff (like VB.NET or even C#) - as these are new skills they may be in demand more in the not too distant future.
All the best
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Rikki,
One thing that will go a long way to getting into Web Development is to create your own web site outside work (as you have already done). I know of several people who have done this and either moved within their current company, or secured a job elsewhere on the strength of a well desgned and implemented web site. For instance a guy back in Reuters moved from VMS/Pascal (doesn't get much less marketable - I should know!) to a senior web developer position on the strength of an excellent web site he created (sorry I don't know the URL). It will require lots of work in your free time, but will be worth the effort. An example of a good web site (speaking as a web developer myself) is Blow Dog's web site - www.blowdog.com.
[Edited by Jerome - 25/10/2001 14:23:58]
One thing that will go a long way to getting into Web Development is to create your own web site outside work (as you have already done). I know of several people who have done this and either moved within their current company, or secured a job elsewhere on the strength of a well desgned and implemented web site. For instance a guy back in Reuters moved from VMS/Pascal (doesn't get much less marketable - I should know!) to a senior web developer position on the strength of an excellent web site he created (sorry I don't know the URL). It will require lots of work in your free time, but will be worth the effort. An example of a good web site (speaking as a web developer myself) is Blow Dog's web site - www.blowdog.com.
[Edited by Jerome - 25/10/2001 14:23:58]
Thread Starter
Scooby Regular
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Crispin - thanks, i will email you tomorrow from work.
SWRT - I know what you mean, experience seems to be the key.
Jerome - I am sitting here at the moment with the "Dreamweaver Bible" in my hand developing a new site.
I developed one already using raw HTML coding and some primitive software called Arachanphilia. If anyone is interested it is a football site at http://members.aol.com/psvswan but it hasn't been maintained for a while now as the club folded.
You are right about Cem's site - it is lovely. I had a word with him about it last week.
More advice appreciated
SWRT - I know what you mean, experience seems to be the key.
Jerome - I am sitting here at the moment with the "Dreamweaver Bible" in my hand developing a new site.
I developed one already using raw HTML coding and some primitive software called Arachanphilia. If anyone is interested it is a football site at http://members.aol.com/psvswan but it hasn't been maintained for a while now as the club folded.
You are right about Cem's site - it is lovely. I had a word with him about it last week.
More advice appreciated
Scooby Regular
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Rikki,
I would council you to do everything you can to get a sideways movement within CG. If this means that you have to do the leg work of getting demonstrable skills in your own time, so be it. Ask them what they would need to see to allow you to swap role.
Companies are not recruiting to cross train at the moment, and it is getting harsher each day out there - I should know, (5 years C++, currently unemployed ).
Be careful where you choose to go in web dev. If you are truly gifted at user interface / design, then go Dreamweaver/HTML/Flash. There are lots of left brainers out there who fancy themselves as artists, but you have to be honest with yourself. If you are coming from a programmer role people will expect you to be a mid tier / back end developer with less interface talent. A good private website will be an important advertisement for your talent.
Get a copy of the .NET beta and learn all you can.
Good luck, I hope the market has bounced before March.
KF.
I would council you to do everything you can to get a sideways movement within CG. If this means that you have to do the leg work of getting demonstrable skills in your own time, so be it. Ask them what they would need to see to allow you to swap role.
Companies are not recruiting to cross train at the moment, and it is getting harsher each day out there - I should know, (5 years C++, currently unemployed ).
Be careful where you choose to go in web dev. If you are truly gifted at user interface / design, then go Dreamweaver/HTML/Flash. There are lots of left brainers out there who fancy themselves as artists, but you have to be honest with yourself. If you are coming from a programmer role people will expect you to be a mid tier / back end developer with less interface talent. A good private website will be an important advertisement for your talent.
Get a copy of the .NET beta and learn all you can.
Good luck, I hope the market has bounced before March.
KF.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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From: behind twin turbos
Keep in mind if you only know things like VB, .NET, C# etc you're limiting yourself to Windows-only jobs, there are a lot of other platforms out there. It'll help if you know how to write CGI scripts (from scratch, not using some app), hand-written HTML (meaning not done using an app) and some webserver skills (Apache or if you're feeling masochistic, IIS). Apache is still the top webserver (http://www.netcraft.co.uk/survey/) and mainly used on UNIX/Linux systems, so some knowledge of those will help too.
Steve.
Steve.
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KF - I do have an artistic/creative streak in me as well as a logical mindset which is one reason that I want to get in to web design/VB aswell as raw coding. I think it would be ideal for me.
Steve - I have chosen to go for the Windows route for the time being as I can see there being some demand for it for the foreseeable future especially with the .Net/XP releases etc. I am trying to keep my options open
As for staying within CG, yes I that would be ideal however it seems that you have to kick up a real fuss to get given a desirable role, even though you are supposed to be able to shape your career there. A guy has just been released from my assignment in Bedford and reassigned in Bristol. He taught himself Java and paid for the Sun certified exams himself and then waited months to be given a Java based role elsewhere. I don't really fancy moving away too far from Dunstable and couldn't afford to move at the moment. Next nearest office is Watford or travelling in to the city, which is another reason I was considering moving to another employer.
Steve - I have chosen to go for the Windows route for the time being as I can see there being some demand for it for the foreseeable future especially with the .Net/XP releases etc. I am trying to keep my options open
As for staying within CG, yes I that would be ideal however it seems that you have to kick up a real fuss to get given a desirable role, even though you are supposed to be able to shape your career there. A guy has just been released from my assignment in Bedford and reassigned in Bristol. He taught himself Java and paid for the Sun certified exams himself and then waited months to be given a Java based role elsewhere. I don't really fancy moving away too far from Dunstable and couldn't afford to move at the moment. Next nearest office is Watford or travelling in to the city, which is another reason I was considering moving to another employer.
Thread Starter
Scooby Regular
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
KF - I do have an artistic/creative streak in me as well as a logical mindset which is one reason that I want to get in to web design/VB aswell as raw coding. I think it would be ideal for me.
Steve - I have chosen to go for the Windows route for the time being as I can see there being some demand for it for the foreseeable future especially with the .Net/XP releases etc. I am trying to keep my options open
As for staying within CG, yes I that would be ideal however it seems that you have to kick up a real fuss to get given a desirable role, even though you are supposed to be able to shape your career there. A guy has just been released from my assignment in Bedford and reassigned in Bristol. He taught himself Java and paid for the Sun certified exams himself and then waited months to be given a Java based role elsewhere. I don't really fancy moving away too far from Dunstable and couldn't afford to move at the moment. Next nearest office is Watford or travelling in to the city, which is another reason I was considering moving to another employer.
Steve - I have chosen to go for the Windows route for the time being as I can see there being some demand for it for the foreseeable future especially with the .Net/XP releases etc. I am trying to keep my options open
As for staying within CG, yes I that would be ideal however it seems that you have to kick up a real fuss to get given a desirable role, even though you are supposed to be able to shape your career there. A guy has just been released from my assignment in Bedford and reassigned in Bristol. He taught himself Java and paid for the Sun certified exams himself and then waited months to be given a Java based role elsewhere. I don't really fancy moving away too far from Dunstable and couldn't afford to move at the moment. Next nearest office is Watford or travelling in to the city, which is another reason I was considering moving to another employer.
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