2000TLondon

I know there are a few people on here who are into air pistols and replica guns.

I don't know much about them myself, but a friend of mine got sent down for five years a few weeks ago after buying a blank firing pistol over the internet a year before the law changed. It was a gas powered one that projected the casing......

He had a mild interest in the things but was not interested enough to know the law was changing in May last year. He got arrested in November after the police got the credit card details from this Italian website. It was kept boxed under his bed, only been out of the box for a few minutes when he first got it. He had no ammo, it hadn't been fired or tampered with. He co-operated fully, pleaded guilty, still got five years, first offence, good character, career at Customs and Excise.

Anyone know anything about the new law? Admittedly he broke the law, but through ignorance and with no intent (although this is not a defence) and even though 5 years is the minimum, judges are asked to take circumstances into account, so the toe-rags with intent get five plus, and in theory respectable but curious people get more....

Anyone offer any advice please? They are appealing, which takes six months......

jjones

so he legally bought a gun. then put it under his bed and 12 months later gets 5 years?

if it is clear cut as you make it then that is terrible.

2000TLondon

Pretty much, it was legal when he bought it. He made no attempt to hide the fact he was buying it, his own credit card, delivered to home. I think he bought it end of 2003. By May 2004 to keep a replica of this nature, you had to apply for a certificate, or you could take it to the police for destruction or destroy it yourself. After May 2004, you were now holding a firearm, as it could (although he did not realise this) be converted to project / fire ammo.

Jye

I hope he is considering an appeal. I too am shocked if this is exactly as it happened.

blueone

If it was purchased legally before the Law changed outside of the UK, why was the details of this person released to the UK Police? Sounds like a breach of some law itself if that is the case. However if his details were on file with Customs and Excise in the UK and they did not write to inform him and others of the law change before arresting I would be bringing the matter up with my MP. I am sure that when Handguns were banned everyone would of been written to informing them of this fact and telling them when it has to be exported, handed over or destroyed by. A very strong case for a Judicial review of the matter in my opinion. Now if he had 50 of the things and had been informed previously by Custom and excise that the law was to change and had not handed it over then yes should accept the Courts decision. On the face of it it sounds very harsh.

pslewis

There is clearly more to this than whats here .................. they just do NOT bung someone away for 5 years for THAT!

Its a miscarraige of justice if it is as here ...... but, we all know its NOT clear cut

Pete

2000TLondon

IT's NOT clear cut? There's no point in dressing it up, is there? He's already down. Exactly as I said it, well, some dates and the exact details of the replica are not exact, but this is how it happened. The law was changed to state that these blank firers were no longer considered toys, and because some gangsters are converting them and killing people with them, they introduced tough new sentencing for possesion. Judges can use discretion, his judge did not. It's as clear cut as I have made out, I am not a liar.

His family have set up a website detailing all of this and have been writing to MP's and other influential people to try and get his appeal speeded up. At the moment, it takes at least five or six months to even decide if he can appeal the sentence.

The whole point of mentioning it on here, was that basically I feel the same as you, the SHOULD not bang someone up for THAT, but they have......

If you KNOW something I don't, pslewis, please share it with me!

I'll try and find a link to their website which has all the details.

Jye

Pure travesty of justice then 2000T

DanTheMan

I suspect that he imported a "forward firing" blank firer which would be illegal due to the ability to actually fire rubber bullets down the barrel and also the ability to launch flares such as seen here, obviously these are legal in places like france but not here.

Once the police realised that these were being imported on a large scale they cracked down:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/england/2645807.stm

then they begun to have a go at the personal importers:

http://www.acpo.police.uk/news/2004/...bembridge.html

OPERATION BEMBRIDGE - NATIONAL POLICE OPERATION TO TARGET THOSE WHO PURCHASE PROHIBITED WEAPONS FROM THE INTERNET
During today, Wednesday 30th June 2004, OPERATION BEMBRIDGE will be taking place around the country. Warrants will be executed on those individuals, who have acquired prohibited weapons from the internet.

As a result of intelligence gathered, police forces will be visiting over 200 offenders who are believed to have purchased prohibited weapons by this means. It is hoped at the end of this day of action a large quantity of weapons will be recovered from individuals and potential dangers averted. Weapons that will be recovered are likely to include stuns gun, cs spray and blank firing imitation weapons which can be readily converted into live weapons.

Alan Green, ACPO lead on Criminal Use of Firearms and Deputy Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police, said:
"Operation Bembridge is a national proactive operation targeting people who have bought prohibited weapons over the internet. People must learn that it is still an offence to possess stun guns and cs gas in this country even though they have been acquired abroad.
"The message from the operation is that if you have bought prohibited weapons over the internet you risk being arrested, charged and if convicted receiving a criminal record."

This operation has been a result of close co-operation with our colleagues from HM Customs and Excise and the National Criminal Intelligence Service.

DanTheMan

Just to add to my above post, I know loads of people who purchased these legally from shops before this change in the law and it has never really been publicised that there was a change in the law. Hundreds of UK websites and shops withdrew most of their blank firing auto pistols as they are still unsure about the legalities of selling non forward firing models due to their "readily converted" construction.

It's all a crazy waste of time, cracking down on unfortunate individuals who accidentally break the law when they should be looking at the gangsters importing real pistols/uzi's from europe etc, I hope all goes well in his review.

pslewis

2000TLondon - I am with the bloke if its 5 years for how you describe it, don't get me wrong!

In all my many years experience of life and people I have learnt that nothing is 'quite' as it appears first, please point us to the website - he's a friend of yours, should be easy to locate ..... we would be willing to support him!

Pete

2000TLondon

Cheers for that info, Dan.

I'm told it was a "venting" replica. I don't know the differences, but it was operation bembridge that brought about his arrest. I was told it was legal when he bought it.

pslewis, a mate is sending me the link this afternoon.....

Cheers.

IWatkins

I feel sorry for your friend, I really do.

However the law is the law. The recommended minimum sentence for possesion of an illegal firearm (this was) is five years. And as I understand it, there are no ifs or buts on this. And not being aware of the changes to the law is no excuse at all *.

Seriously, if anyone has anything similar or even marginal hiding under their bed, get rid. But don't do what someone local to me did. He heard about the changes to the law with regards to brococks, dug out his one and took it down the police station. They arrested him, ARV turned up, dragged off to the bigger nick etc. Eventually he was released and wasn't charged in the end, supposedly because he had a top brief, but even so. He did the most sensible thing and nearly got banged up for it.

So the general advice seems to be go and lob it in a lake/canal etc. after you have done your best to damage it beyond use.

Ian

* Does anyone know every law of this country ? No ? I'm not surprised. Daft eh ?

Daryl

It is possible that this was the reason the judge threw the book at him... they seem to take a particularly dim view when offenders work in law enforcement.

midget1500

if that is as clear cut as detailed it's a joke! some sort of caution at best, not jail time...FFS people do much worse and get slapped on the wrist.

that is a scary story because it's the sort of thing that could happen to anyone.

Chris5-0

As i understand it 5 years is the sentence handed down for possesion of a REAL firearm i.e. revolver, automatic etc. There is obviously more to this than what has been said so far, here is not the place to judge without knowing the full facts and here is also not the place to be trawling for sympathy, backing etc for a case we know nothing about. There are too many people attacking Police forces and CPS on here without adding fuel to the fire with these type of stories. I'll be involved in a full fact thread, from what you say the trial is over so no harm in giving us the full facts is there (names, dates, circs) but to just say my mate's been sent down for an imported gun and its wrong will inevitably lead to more hate of policing in Britain and more wild stories (my mate took his firearm to be destroyed and was dragged off to the cells by ARV's!) .

One thing i notice on Scoobynet, it's always a mate in bother. Thank god i don't know any of you lot personally!!

richieh

doesnt any offence with what the government have decided is an unlicenced firearm carry a mandatory 5 stretch
eg if i find a brocock pistol and get caught on the way to a station to hand it in i'm in possession of an unlicenced firearm. if the cps decide to take it to trial(gun crime-i wonder) and i'm found guilty -guaranteed 5 years?
richie

Diablo

WTF does anyone want with a blank firing pistol, or a replica gun of any sort anyway?

Brendan Hughes

D - same as those who like replica watches, I suppose

Diablo

LOL

Little less sinsister having a replica watch

daiscooby

I hate to be a pedantic **** but wasn't there a well publicised amnesty for the handing in of these guns, national TV news, newspapers etc. ?.

I haven't handled a gun in nearly 10 years and have zero interest in them but even I heard of the amnesty.

Still it seems a touch harsh 5 years for possession by default

hedgehog

Think of it this way: gun crime in this country is on the increase and police can't contain it or even do anything about the people involved. So, they trawl the internet to find out who has been buying toy guns and then arrest these people. As it is a firearms offence they can then claim to have arrested 200 people for such an offence and so their statistics look much better than the 2 people, with real guns who were a real danger to society, that they had managed for most of the rest of the year.

While we don't know the details of this particular case and while it is possible that we might not have the full story it is still clear to most in this country that this sort of statistical manipulation where the generally law abiding citizen is the new criminal in society is going on a lot.

The people who keep saying "I have nothing to fear from government control measures" are the ones in for the biggest shock when the knock comes to their door.

2000TLondon

I wasn't trying to attack the police of the CPS. The police did their job, the CPS did theirs. The law is the law. Ignorance is no defence, I agree with all that and I'm not trying to hawk for sympathy, I just think it is interesting to say the least how the new sentencing guidelines were used by the judge.

I'm posting up the link to the website with the full and exact details in one moment!

Cheers.

2000TLondon

Funnily enough, I was well aware of the amnesty and the change in sentencing, and I have no interest whatsoever in guns.....

Poor Guy

for filming / interest / fun because we cant have the real thing.

so blank firers are illegal now? why? a cars more dangerous.

dsmith

Give it time - that'll be illegal soon

2000TLondon

The website his family have set up is

www.justice4zak.org

It's got all the facts in detail on the website.....

I think the replica may have been illegal prior to the law change in May 2004, but he's obviously been sentenced with the new powers.

Cheers

richieh

has anyone got a link to the legislation for blank firers
ive had a look today and i cant find it
richie

2000TLondon

Morning everybody.....

Dragging this back to the top as I'm going to see my mate next week.....

If anyone has time to look at his site quickly will be much appreciated!

Cheers

2000TLondon

www.justice4zak.org