moses

that condemnation thing regarding the sheikhs assassination in palestine

and then the iraqis and fighters knew the usa will never be just and started all this, worse than ever

shia's and sunnis have joined forces and as u saw what happened in iraq after what sharon did to yassin and the palestinians and usa keep on vetoing everything

will our boys have to die coz of sharon and bush and innocent civilian




http://islamonline.net/English/News/...rticle10.shtml



have a read

bonkers

Dude, you're citing a source that takes quotes from 'Al Jazeera' - take your expectations of bias from any Western media source, double them and expect at least that much from Al Jaz but in the opposite direction.

While Sharon's decisions were questionnable at best and his probable motives downright cynical, Hamas is, to many people, a terrorist organization. Having condemned terrorists, period and having insitgated and supported the hunting of said, Bush can hardly turn around and condemn Israel for doing the same.

Personally I think he should have abstained and let it go through - Sharon has been getting far too cocky lately, he needs a clear 'No!' - but you need to do some more research before you go spouting political opinions.

Bonkers.

NACRO

Yet again the Americans demonstrate their lack of intelligence and subtlety, their actions have precipitated yet another flash point.

I remember lots of people on here (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) saying the war would be over as soon as Saddam was captured. Willing to admit you were wrong now?

This mess is another Vietnam except this time suicide bombers are going to be bringing the "war dividend" to the homelands of the aggressors.

Suresh

For once I [almost] agree with moses. The USA's apparently unconditional support of Israel has much to answer for here. It's unbelievable that a once-great country that stood for fairness, decency and humanity now blindly supports one led by a war criminal.

As always though, the simple answer to just "blame the west" has a few fundamental flaws... The lack of influence and leverage the arab world actually has over its own region is lamentable. This is the true reason for the anger that we see daily on our televisions. The inability to even agree upon an agenda for their recent Arab League summit in Tunisia was nothing short of a joke. Unless they are able to unite for a constructive cause, there is no hope.

moses

suresh welcome back been ages mate i just put the thread up but wont be replying coz as u know if i reply i usually get out of control and this time i dont wanna get banned so will just read what people think

and hows u anyway
yeah edited to add

those arab leaders are scumbags they just get together for coffee and cakes and do jack ****

i would bomb them with their in the conference except for bashar al assad and amr moussa nice people but f$£% the rest

moses

and nacro bros u remember that muppet donald rumsarse said they have enough might to take out iraq and n korea the same time to punish them

well he was dreaming i think

iraq has just started like i stated before xmas, this is the real war now

dtriggs

Bonkers - you should maybe research a touch more before condemning others. Sharon and Israel have constantly ignored UN resolutions - we went to war in Iraq because Hussein apparently was doing this. The Palestinian people are illegally under the military rule of Israel. We celebrate resistance fighters in certain times yet dismiss Hamas etc as just terrorists. It just isnt as simple as that. They are fighting to have a state of their own which is legally granted by the UN - yet they refuse to do anything about it, mainly because the USA have vetoed any action ever proposed.

Israel need to give the Palestinians their own land and take their reason for fighting away. Then any more terrorism can be rightly criticised.

NACRO

Indeed moses you were correct, the real war is starting now and it won't finish until there are a huge number of dead on both sides. It stinks.

I note that most of the people who said this would be a done deal when saddam went are conspicuous by their absence on this thread, despite the fact they continue to spout their right wing bullsh1t elsewhere on the board. They haven't got the ***** to admit they were wrong, even worse that we were right. Shame that being right is of small comfort to me.

moses

well said bros


and u too dtriggs


nacro bros u should be world leader and leslie should be your sidekick and kat the defense minister and bravo should be military general and richwalk the national security guy

bonkers

I'm well aware that Israel has multiple U.N. resolutions against them regarding the Palestinian situation though I'm not intimately familiar with the details - perhaps you could enlighten me?

I agree with you that U.N. resolutions (and breach of ceasefire obligations) were reasons to go back into Iraq and imho Bush & Blair would have done better to focus on those than on overblown assessments of Saddam's WMD readiness and vague rumours that an Al Qaeda chappie may have once stopped off in Baghdad for coffee.

The problem of course with arguing for war on the basis of U.N. resolutions is that it would have looked like hypocrisy with regard to Israel (and in many regards it would have been).

To be fair to Bush, he has pushed the Israeli / Palestinian agenda, he doesn't have much to work with leadership-wise (on either side) and the hardliners on both sides are busy pounding the civilians of the other side into the dirt.

That said, Bush is also open to the accusation that he has not done as much as he could have to push both sides to back to the negotiating table, particularly, in my opinion, to put pressure on Sharon whose assassination policy seems only to escalate the tit-for-tat attacks.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

It never is mate.. it never is.

1. The UN does a pretty damn good job of being impotent with or without the USA - case in point Iraq where inspections were on again, off again for over a decade and even after all that time, there were still those who wanted to give Saddam another chance. If you want to talk veto's, let's discuss France's decision to unconditionally veto the war, which hurt the U.N. and the Iraqi people and did absolutely nothing to "counterbalance" the United States.

2. When has the USA veto'd the creation of a Palestinian state??? Both the Clinton and Bush administrations have openly supported that solution! What they do veto are resolutions criticising Israel and you can certainly take issue with that.

Agree totally but as you yourself observed, "It just isnt as simple as that" - not while Hamas suicide bombers and the Israeli army compete to fill up the body bags.

Oh and anyone who believed the problems in Iraq would end with the capture of Saddam was at best over-optimistic, at worst naive (and yes, I include Dubya and co. in that - they screwed the pooch by failing to plan adequately for post-war Iraq).

Bonkers.

moses

meet the man himself sheikh sadr


people say he is gonna unite the factions and kick out the western soldiers


http://islamonline.net/English/News/...rticle03.shtml

he aint a terrorist or an outlaw he is a hero who is fighting for liberation of his country is even silly to compare him to saddam he aint done no atrocities to his people



http://www.islamonline.net/English/N...rticle01.shtml

moses

here is his profile



http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...DF9E6CDF70.htm

he is a shia and an arab, u get shia's who are non arab

bonkers

I'll read 'em later but once again I note that you are quoting from overtly biased sources and you appear to be taking them at face value.

From what I understand of the major factions in Iraq, I would be extremely surprised to see anyone unite them. Sunni and Shia are to branches of Islam, not unlike the Catholics and Protestants. How many years did it take to "sort out" Northern Ireland? I use quotes because even now, there is low-level sectarian violence and there remains the potential for the province to descend back into bloodshed.

Both Shias and Kurds were brutally repressed under Saddam's (Sunni) regime. Balancing these three main factions is the single biggest challenge facing Paul Bremmer and the current governing council (many of whom are returned exiles by the way).

So would you call the IRA, terrorists or freedom fighters?

Bonkers.

moses

this man sadr isnt a terrorist and neither would i be if i defended scotland against invaders with all means necessary

sadr is an iraqi and he is fighting for iraq


and ira hmm terrorists when they attack civilians but not the government who oppress them

but nowadays their into dealing drugs so i dont call them freedomfighters and they oppress their own catholics and anyone oppress a catholic irishman i dont like, coz im pro irish and support my catholic brethren

so i.r.a have broken the rules

OllieC

It doesn't matter what anyone would call them as much as how they see themselves. If you react to being invaded and then having your country occupied by the invading force for years you are, to me, fighting for your freedom. Call this a Freedom Fighter if you like.

Understandably, most of the IRA saw themselves as Freedom Fighters. Equally understandably, the families of the people they blew up were upset and angry and called them names and tried to belittle what the IRA were trying to achieve (which for many was a debate about whether they shouldn't have had their country invaded and their land stolen in the first place).

As far as I'm aware, there has been a similiar pattern in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY THAT HAS BEEN INVADED AND OCCUPIED - whatever the "justification" (apart from maybe Italy which enjoyed being invaded for a while - simply letting the invaders get on with it and carrying on as normal).

When will we learn?

Scooby96

Resolution 106: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid".
* Resolution 111: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".
* Resolution 127: " . . . 'recommends' Israel suspends it's 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
* Resolution 162: " . . . 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".
* Resolution 171: " . . . determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".
* Resolution 228: " . . . 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".
* Resolution 237: " . . . 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".
* Resolution 248: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
* Resolution 250: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
* Resolution 251: " . . . 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
* Resolution 252: " . . . 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
* Resolution 256: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
* Resolution 259: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
* Resolution 262: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
* Resolution 265: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
* Resolution 267: " . . . 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
*Resolution 270: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
* Resolution 271: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
* Resolution 279: " . . . 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 280: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 285: " . . . 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
* Resolution 298: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
* Resolution 313: " . . . 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 316: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
* Resolution 317: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
* Resolution 332: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
* Resolution 337: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
* Resolution 347: " . . . 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
* Resolution 425: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
* Resolution 444: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
* Resolution 446: " . . . 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious
obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
* Resolution 450: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
* Resolution 452: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
* Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member
states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
* Resolution 467: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
* Resolution 468: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of
two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
* Resolution 469: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the
council's order not to deport Palestinians".
* Resolution 471: " . . . 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide
by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
* Resolution 476: " . . . 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
* Resolution 478: " . . . 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its
claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'".
* Resolution 484: " . . . 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported
Palestinian mayors".
* Resolution 487: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's
nuclear facility".
* Resolution 497: " . . . 'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan
Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith".
* Resolution 498: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
* Resolution 501: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
* Resolution 509: " . . . 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
* Resolution 515: " . . . 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and
allow food supplies to be brought in".
* Resolution 517: " . . . 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions
and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
* Resolution 518: " . . . 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
* Resolution 520: " . . . 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
* Resolution 573: " . . . 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia
in attack on PLO headquarters.
* Resolution 587: " . . . 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw
its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
* Resolution 592: " . . . 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students
at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
* Resolution 605: " . . . 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices
denying the human rights of Palestinians.
* Resolution 607: " . . . 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly
requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
* Resolution 608: " . . . 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
* Resolution 636: " . . . 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
* Resolution 641: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
* Resolution 672: " . . . 'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians
at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
* Resolution 673: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United
Nations.
* Resolution 681: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of
Palestinians.
* Resolution 694: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and
calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
* Resolution 726: " . . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
* Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians
and calls for there immediate return.

Scooby96

... and the rest....!

moses

thanks scooby96 your posts said it all and all get veto's by the number one terrorist usa

Scooby96

Doesnt mean I was against the Iraq war though, far from it however I can also see that the USA isnt an angel either.

Scooby96

Forgive my ignorance but what is the Israeli / USA connection?

moses

u do know dont u

or u just asking , at cwe we talked alot about it and it went out of hand so i dont like talking about it anymore

but if u insist

usa is the lifeline of the israeli killing machine and the minority of zionists deprive the usa to look after their own poverty stricken people and bloodsuck the usa for everything and backup and military , zionist lobby controls the usa by its ***** and supported by the born again christian sickness, their all zionists i dont call them christian but a cult

Scooby96

Thanks Moses - ok I get the picture

moses

your welcome

Scooby96

Moses - do you think Iraqis would have preferred Saddam to have stayed in power then?

I do think the **** for tatt Palestine / Israeli thing as no way forward but I can also understand why they react - I suppose its the same the world over.

moses

some would have but the majority wouldnt have, saddam was and always will be an evil b@sta and his sons were very very evil and got what was coming but they died fighting and people forgot their bad past


specially qusay's lil boy who got killed by the us soldiers that really fired up the arabs

iraq needs someone a lil like gaddafi who will unite the factions and treat them as he would treat his own family and like the muslim leaders of old, we are here to serve the ummah but not ourselves attitude

see nowadays everyone wants to serve themselves or their masters like the usa but no one wants to serve their people

moses

bonkers u said something about al jazeera, their more honest than the western media anyday, only papers i trust are the guardian, independent and the herald and also haaretz israeli media they give u the 2 sides and i do luv islamonline and al jazeera


here is the latest scooby

like nacro and i said war has started now before was a illusion for the usa






U.S. Troops Meet Fierce Resistance In Fallujah, Kill Scores


Iraqi fighters put up fierce resistance and stood their ground


FALLUJAH, Iraq, April 6 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) - Meeting fierce resistance from Iraqi fighters, U.S. occupation forces bombarded late Tuesday, April 6, the western city of Fallujah with tanks and warplanes, killing scores of Iraqi citizens.

At least ten Iraqis died when American forces shelled the Golan neighborhood, reported the Doha-based Aljazeera television.

Hospital doctors said another 15 civilians had been killed and dozens injured in the American offensive over the past 48 hours.

The U.S. army reported six Iraqis killed in fighting Monday, though residents said five of them were killed when helicopters hit a residential area.

The occupation troops took control of the industrial area on the town's southeastern outskirts after a fierce six-hour battle with Iraqi fighters.

Iraqi fighters braved the armed-to-the-teeth occupation units with rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) and mortars, forcing U.S. forces to withdraw from one of their bastions around the city.

Marines pulled back to the outskirts at nightfall to meet heavy exchange of fire on the northeast edge of the city.

Another grinding battle began when a U.S. foot patrol entered a few blocks into the city came under a barrage of fire from a house, leaving at least two Marines wounded.

The trapped patrol called in help and a tank and a Humvee moved in to extract them.

"There is no third option: Either we win martyrdom or force the occupiers to retreat, " one resident told Aljazeera.

Periodic machine-gun fire could be heard in the central and eastern sectors of the city as tanks, amphibious assault vehicles and Humvee jeeps started rolling into the western city backed by A.C.130 gunships and Cobra helicopters.

The operation, dubbed "Vigilant Resolve" involves part of two marine battalions, or more than 2,000 troops.

Some of the worst fighting occurred early Monday when marines set up a checkpoint at the northeastern edge of the city.

They were hit by mortar and small fire simultaneously.

Appeal


U.S. Marines patrol the outskirts of Fallujah (AFP)


Fallujah residents have appealed Tuesday to United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan and the international community to intervene and end the crippling U.S. blockade.

Hospital doctors said at least 15 civilians had been killed and dozens injured in the American offensive on Monday and Tuesday.

The only hospital in the city was shelled Monday, April 5, by U.S. helicopters.

Doctors said the situation is extremely serious as some of the injured have bled to death, the Doha-based newscaster added.

The U.S. army reported six Iraqis killed in fighting Monday, though residents said five of them were killed when helicopters hit a residential area.

The occupation troops took control of the industrial area on the town's southeastern outskirts after a fierce six-hour battle with Iraqi fighters.

The town, 50 kilometres (30 miles) west of Baghdad, had been sealed off at dawn Monday and troops were only letting cars with Fallujah license plates enter or leave the town.

Schools and shops remained closed throughout the day and the streets were deserted, as residents remained indoors.

Marines slapped an 11-hour curfew from 7:00 pm to 6:00 am (1500 GMT to 0300 GMT) on the town.

U.S. forces, meanwhile, have indefinitely closed the highways linking Baghdad to Amman and Damascus that run through or near Fallujah.

U.S. commanders said the bloody incursion came in response to the killing and mutilation of four U.S. security guards on Wednesday, March 31.

The corpses of the four guards were dragged across the streets and hanged from a bridge in a horrific scene that showed the growing anti-U.S. sentiments in the country.

The Fallujah offensive coincides with deadly clashes between Shiites and U.S.-led occupation troops across the country, which killed at least 87 people and injured some 400 others.

8 U.S. Fatalities

Meanwhile, eight U.S. soldiers were killed and eight wounded in separate attacks around chaos-mired Baghdad, Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported.

Three U.S. soldiers were killed in a Baghdad suburb on Monday and Tuesday, the U.S. military said, giving no details.

Four Marines serving with the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force were killed in a shooting with Iraqi fighters in Al-Anbar province, around Fallujah, the U.S. military announced.

Another Marine died when gunmen opened fire on his checkpoint at dawn, prompting U.S. troops to retaliate and inflict an unknown number of casualties among Iraqis.

Eight Marines were also wounded and hospitalized after a mortar attack on their checkpoint to the northeast of Fallujah.

The deaths raised to at least 616 the number of U.S. soldiers killed in resistance operations in Iraq since last year's U.S.-led invasion, according to an AFP tally

Scooby96

Moses - that does p1ss me off a bit when things are said that the occupying forces met with fierce resistance then whinge that 10 or so civilians were killed - ffs in urban warfare what do they expect?

Scooby96

Especially when The corpses of the four guards were dragged across the streets and hanged from a bridge

moses

they have every right to whinge its their country usa and other countries not suppose to be their


and of course why are their people getting killed coz the foreign occupation aint " suppose" to be their and if they werent their they wouldnt have been killed as in their civilians


and yes those soldiers even if they had to be killed but no man or animal should be slayed like that, it was sickening mate, we are taught in islam their was a woman who used to torture her cat and deprive her to even have a meal and used to tie it with something, that cat died and that woman will burn in hell if someone even torchers an animal like that, these were humans


and iraqis justify that coz they say our people were humans too when the bombs were thrown on top of them and their children and families they were hacked to death with the sharpnels

see its a catch 22

moses

one more thing if i was in war and a enemy soldier was caught by me and its necessary to kill him coz he tried to kill me or others

if he was a head of his infantry or division and i would give him the respect of killing himself

otherwise if he was just a foot soldier and didnt have a clue and did not have blood on his hand i would take him captive, feed the ****** and when the war is over let him go or give him a choice if he wants to be my bros and not fight us again


thats moses law of fighting

i dont like my brothers to be suicide bombers i prefer fighting and live another day so u can send more enemies to God

and u might live the day to see the world a happier place if i get killed glory be to God its still martydom anyway u want it.


only time i would justify a suicide bomber will be lets say the enemy has surrounded u and u know u can take the enemy soldiers and not civilians out by a huge number then its justifiable or its better to be in the hands of an enemy to get killed fighting but dont surrender

LIVING LIKE A RAT OR AN ANIMAL IN THE ENEMIES CAGE IS FAR WORSE THAN ANYTHING

i hope u understand