richieh

as there seems to be a varied cross section of people on here, how do u all feel about the reclassification of "da herb" to class c
richie

ProperCharlie

personally, i don't really care one way or another. in my experience, most coppers stopped giving a sh*t about weed a long time ago. when i was young and foolish i was searched by some plod, and quantities of weed were discovered. him and the other plod made me empty the packet onto the ground and stomp on it. this freaked me out a bit, as i was completely wired on stuff much stronger than weed, and was under the impression that the coppers were doing some kind of sadistic ritual on me .

i stopped my experimentation with drugs quite a few years ago. i don't think people in possession of weed should tie up police time, at the same time i don't particularly advocate people using it.

Dracoro

They say a lot of people may now think it's 'legal'. IMO that's rubbish. Most people who use it know that category C is still illegal but are using the 'confusion' to somehow justify claiming ignorance if they ever get caught. Knowing full well that it's illegal, they'll still say 'sorry officer, I thought is was OK now the law has changed, won't do it again sir'

Personally don't care about people using cannabis, it's probably worse (but not by much) than cigs or booze but certainly daft to bracket it with herion or ecstasy etc. Seems that, as always, views are polarised rather than taking a reality check. i.e. some say 'it's perfectly fine, does no damage, doesn't lead on to harder stuff' etc. which is naieve and then again the 'it's a drug, will lead into crime and heroin' etc. are just as silly. As long as people are sensible and accept the bad points then they should be OK.

grovesy

Doesn't really make a differnce to me unless it froces the price down.

Hobo_Jojo

theres no way i would say its worse than alcohol, not by a long shot.

yoza

Same class as steroids now.

Jye

Worse than alcohol? You havin a laff? The ignorance of people never ceases to amaze me.

richieh

just noticed at the bottom are links to hydroponics and hemp drinks and stuff somewhat apt
grovesy just how much cheaper could it get
perhaps tesco value block in a year or 2
or sainsburys essentials skunk
down to the barbers "something for after something for the weekend sir" lol
richie

ProperCharlie

i wouldn't say it's worse than alcohol, but it is *different* to alcohol. i've seen serious mental illness brought on by cannabis use, whilst i've known other people who are life long users of it with no evident ill effect. it's the same with booze - some people will be habitual drinkers all their lives and not suffer anything much, others will get cirrhosis or stab someone in a drunken rage.

Scooby96

Anyone got any decent seeds?

Dracoro

It's not properly proved one way or another, hence my use of the term PROBABLY given that we know more about the affects of booze. Yeah, maybe I should have used the term 'possibly', it's hard to really compare anyway as they are quite different drugs.

Anyway, it's tricky to say which is worth as how do we compare or qualify which is worse? I pint of beer, should we compare that to one drag? one joint? 10 joints? etc. Regardless, it affects the body in different ways. Smoking a joint certainly does a more damage to the lungs than beer does. Beer does more damage to the kidneys than a joint does.

Easier of course to compare it to a cigarette. Although in many cases, people smoke cannabis in a roll up using tobacco and no filter so it's has to be a worse way of smoking if nothing else. Anyway, smoking of any kind is bad for you so I gave up many years ago. Booze is easier to take in moderation, most people can happily go days/weeks/months without a drink whereas most smokers are addicted and can't go a few hours without one.

Once addicted, I'd agree that booze is VERY bad for you, but in moderation how does it really compare to cigarettes or cannabis?

Green Room

UK drug death figures: deaths per annum

Drug deaths: 1994 1996

Methadone 259 357
Heroin 90 187
Temazepan 165 95
Amphetamin 20 29
Cocaine/Crack 21 15
Ecstasy 23 12
Cannabis (more details) * 2 1
LSD 1 0

Hansard figures for 1995

Alcohol 4,235
Tobacco 120,000



* Official statistics record two deaths involving cannabis (and no other drug) in 1994 and one in 1996 but these were due to inhalation of vomit.

OK these statistic are a few years old but if someone wants to trawl Google and find any that show a different trend then feel free.

Propercharlie, the mental health point you made has some merit with diagnosed illness such as schizophrenia, but the link between cannabis use and the onset of mental health problems where there were none before has yet to be proven. The same comments could be made about the use of any drug from caffine to alcohol. The side effects of most anti-psychotics are bad enough without adding to this by mixing them with anything else.

Media whipped hysteria and the usual big hitters (prescription drug companies, tobacco alcohol lobbyists) distorting the facts as always. Who wants cannabis to be legalised when it would certainly affect sales?

SiPie

Only 2 deaths

Figures won't exactly take account of wee Jimmy who had a spliff at lunchtime then went back to work at the sawmill and then chopped his feckin head off cos he was still a bit stoned

Hmmmmm

Brendan Hughes

SiPie, as he was aiming for the Darwin Awards, he doesn't count.

Green Room

Dracoro, you cant blame cannabis problems on consumption with tobacco. It's up to users whether they choose to alter the effects of one drug by combining it with another. A lot of what you say makes sense but I'd revise your notion that cannabis is anywhere near as harmful as tobacco or alcohol use, especially when used in isolation. If you were to use a vaporiser then no tar or carcinogens are involved in the inhilation of the main psycho active ingredient in cannabis. The problem with alcohol is that it is the only drug that destroys every organ in the human body at the same time, and if you were to take a visit to any A & E dept. during the weekend you might feel like reviewing your opinions on its social use.

Dracoro

What is needed is death AND illness per 'unit' taken. How many people died after having one pint of beer compared to one tablet of ecstasy for example. If you just look at the numbers only then you'll conclude that heroin is 'better for you' than cigarettes.


Anyway, I really don't care if people take whatever. However, I do mind where it means that those people are commiting crimes (i.e. nicking your car to feed their habit) or where it stops them from working or being able to interact with the outside world.

There's taking a drug and there's being addicted. Being addicted to tobacco doesn't prevent people from living life to the full. Whereas someone addicted to acohol or heroin etc. is a different story altogether.

Smoking a joint from time to time probably doesn't affect you that much but how much will your life be affected if you smoked as many joints as you would cigarettes? 20 joints a day, can't see you being very productive at work that day!

ProperCharlie

i agree that the link between psychoacvtive drugs and mental illness is not proven, but it doesn't take a great process of deduction to work out that someone who has potential mental health problems is likely to compound them by taking quite profoundly mind altering substances like cannabis. (btw if you don't think it is a mind altering drug then you ain't taking it right )

the problem with all the figures is that they don't reflect the level of usage. there are a hell of a lot more people who might have the equivalent of 20 pints in a big drinking session than there are people who might take 20 Es, for instance.

Green Room

If someone needs to smoke 20 joints per day then (a) it must be crap stuff, probably soap bar, (b) they are probably ******* who are involved in real crimes in order to feed this excessive habit, such as dealing, shop lifting etc. (c) have a seriously addictive personality which probably means they smoke cannabis while taking other drugs and risks to extremes also.

I could go on all day, but lets face it cannabis has been used in this country for 100's of years without any real problems, Queen Victoria used it for period pains ffs and half the government smoke it, bloody hypocrites lol. It was only made illegal in the 70's due to scare monger lobbying and was included in laws meant to tackle problems with harder drugs.

Lets face it, the war on drugs (silly term for supposed harm reduction) has been lost long ago, prohibition hides all the real problems and solves nothing tbo. IMO it has only made the problem worse, especially the ability to gather together meaninful statistical analysis on its use and effects, including the effects on those people with a mental health problem of predispositon to mental health problems.

SiPi, if wee Jimmy was that stoned he probably would'nt have made it back to work, this is cannabis we're talking about not smack. I've never heard of anything like this happening and I know a hell of a lot of stoners. In your experience can you provide a real instance of anything like this happening before btw? I know of many users of cannabis who can have a good smoke (decent grass not crappy hash btw)and 30 mins later you would never have known they even touched the stuff, these are professionals people like senior managers, lawyers, doctors etc. The effects of cannabis wear off much quicker that other drugs, but in saying that this is not to say that someone who was inexperienced in it's use and it's effects would be OK, but if people are irresponsible with any drug then they are probably irresponsible in other aspects of their life and work. Sensible cannabis users are generally more careful and paranoid about safety IMO, unlike alkies and real jakies who fall asleep mashed with their kids running around covered in **** while the chip pan goes up in flames.

Slighly changing tact, ATM the police can arrest drivers if they think they are under the influence of drugs and even if a road side test is still inconclusive a blood test will certainly show this, especially cannabis which can stay in fat cells for up to 6 months. I wonder why the police and others havent provided hard facts and statistics to link cannabis with dangerous driving and other fatal accidents? Statistics which state that cannabis was used alone, not thrown in with the morons who think its cool to drive with every conceivable drug coursing through their veins. Many tests carried out in Holland have shown that cannabis does make users drive more slowly and carefully even compared to those who have drunk below the legal limit of alcohol. Did'nt Ride (the bike mag) do a similar test last year that backed this up? The same goes for accidents at work. I'm sure if their were problems at work with monged up stoners cutting their heads of we would have had cannabis the deadly workplace killer headlines years ago. We cartainly need debate on all sorts of issues so all of the above is in my drug addled opinion only

Green Room

http://www.ccguide.org.uk/driving.html

bigsinky

wish you where here - pink floyd, great mong out music!

Green Room

If you just look at the numbers only then you'll conclude that heroin is 'better for you' than cigarettes

Forgot to add, of course heroin is better for you than cigarettes, why do you think its used in hospitals for controlled pain relief. Tobacco is far more addictive than heroin. It's dirty needles and impure heroin that kills people and the fact that *most* users become seriously and hopelessly addicted to it because of social problems and addictive personalities. Give them free pure heroin and clean needles and then you'd see a massive reduction in deaths and crime. Many people you wouldnt think were typical heroin users can take gear for years without problems and wasnt the resurgance of heroin use in the 80/90's linked to the middle class high earning smokers.

Dracoro

Well, methadone (or whatever it's called) is used in hospitals which isn't exactly the same as heroin IIRC. Very similar though.

The point was that if you read the numbers only, the stats say that alcohol and tobacco is worse for you than all the drugs - Ecstasy, Crack cocaine, speed etc.

ProperCharlie

diamorphine is used in hospitals - it is pharmaceutical grade heroin and is one of the most effective forms of pain relief available. also makes the patient less anxious and more relaxed.

this is one of the main anti-junkie arguments: patients with chronic illness can be given heroin daily for long periods, and yet if they recover from the illness they do not commonly get noticable withdrawl symptoms when they stop being given the heroin.

Jye

Exac Charlie. You're on the ball m8

This is why we need debate, the ill infomed and miss informed.

edited to say I subscribe to the cannabis can and does cause mental health problems in 'some people' as I have to work with the fall out from dabbling.

[Edited by Jye - 1/29/2004 6:39:55 PM]