Another example of just how backward this country is
19 November 2003, 10:51 AM
#1
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3278375.stm
It is a joke British companies can get away with the things they do. In other countries it just wouldn't be tolerated having such a **** service.
Rip off Britain yet again.
It is a joke British companies can get away with the things they do. In other countries it just wouldn't be tolerated having such a **** service.
Rip off Britain yet again.
19 November 2003, 10:56 AM
#2
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Backward compared to Japan.....yes
Backward compared to 99% of other countries......I think not.
there is a bigger picture to be seen other than 'ooooo the Japs have it so we are being ripped off'
Just my tuppence worth
Backward compared to 99% of other countries......I think not.
there is a bigger picture to be seen other than 'ooooo the Japs have it so we are being ripped off'
Just my tuppence worth
19 November 2003, 11:00 AM
#3
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Cant see the (residential) need for 26mps or the whopping 50mps that could possibly be available but it does show just how poor a deal we get in this god forsaken country - our best being 2mps!
[Edited by Scooby96 - 11/19/2003 11:01:16 AM]
[Edited by Scooby96 - 11/19/2003 11:01:16 AM]
19 November 2003, 11:01 AM
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--Now, with the latest tranche of upgrades taking the maximum download speed to a blazing 26Mbps - remember, this is still over standard telephone lines, just like in the UK - one can be forgiven for wondering why BT and its competitors are languishing in the slow lane.--
FFS 26Mbps!!!!!
TBO I'm on 1Mbps atm and I cant really see that much benefit from my old 512Kbps line. Websites always seem to throttle large downloads anyway.
But yeah, the UK = backwards nation compared to this
FFS 26Mbps!!!!!
TBO I'm on 1Mbps atm and I cant really see that much benefit from my old 512Kbps line. Websites always seem to throttle large downloads anyway.
But yeah, the UK = backwards nation compared to this
19 November 2003, 11:06 AM
#7
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Oh come on hail-hail, you think thr only country better than us at customer service and service provision is Japan?
Absolute tosh. The companies in this country get away with murder in comparison to their foreign counterparts in what they sell to us and how much they charge for it.
Recent example - car prices.
BT have been the one major telecoms and network provider in this country far more established than any of its competitors. Yet they still have half the country to enable adsl let alone provide a decent network speed. We are supposed to be impressed with 512kb connection! The Japanese are running 26mbs ffs, not even in the same ball park so not just lacking a bit behind here on development but leagues apart.
[Edited by ************** - 11/19/2003 11:07:56 AM]
Absolute tosh. The companies in this country get away with murder in comparison to their foreign counterparts in what they sell to us and how much they charge for it.
Recent example - car prices.
BT have been the one major telecoms and network provider in this country far more established than any of its competitors. Yet they still have half the country to enable adsl let alone provide a decent network speed. We are supposed to be impressed with 512kb connection! The Japanese are running 26mbs ffs, not even in the same ball park so not just lacking a bit behind here on development but leagues apart.
[Edited by ************** - 11/19/2003 11:07:56 AM]
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19 November 2003, 11:08 AM
#8
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The main problem is that while end-user net access is getting cheaper and cheaper, leased-lines prices are static. Suddenly ISP's are struggling because their customers want 10 times the access at less profit than they got from dial-up.
REV (Redundant ISP Technical Manager - The money ran out)
REV (Redundant ISP Technical Manager - The money ran out)
19 November 2003, 11:22 AM
#9
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Ok, fair point, but to compare us and the Japanese is like comparing chalk and cheese.
The Japanese are a stunning race of people when it comes to driving technology forward, most likely down the fact that the normal punter in Japan works twice as many hours and twice as hard as your average UK punter (myself included btw).
Take the Scoob for example, the classic is over 10 years old and still holds its own with modern cars of a similar ilk.
It's not down to the fact that we are being ripped of by BT, I would bet that if you sacked the entire BT staff, imported half the amount of workers from Japan, we would have the 50 meg lines and the little phones you hide under your finger nail within a couple of years.
The fact is we are a bunch of lazy gits, we get too much too easily and then moan when a someone else gets some thing better.
The Japanese are a stunning race of people when it comes to driving technology forward, most likely down the fact that the normal punter in Japan works twice as many hours and twice as hard as your average UK punter (myself included btw).
Take the Scoob for example, the classic is over 10 years old and still holds its own with modern cars of a similar ilk.
It's not down to the fact that we are being ripped of by BT, I would bet that if you sacked the entire BT staff, imported half the amount of workers from Japan, we would have the 50 meg lines and the little phones you hide under your finger nail within a couple of years.
The fact is we are a bunch of lazy gits, we get too much too easily and then moan when a someone else gets some thing better.
19 November 2003, 11:26 AM
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Also consider whether at this stage you actually need that kind of bandwidth. There are so many potential bottlenecks that I doubt you would be able to use it at the moment. Most of our commercial customers at work use 2 or 4 meg lines to connect entire offices.
In BT's defence, they did offer about 15 years ago to cable up the enitire mainland UK with fibre to the doorstep at their expense (estimated at around £10-£15 billion) in return for the right to maket multimedia services down these lines to our homes. Someone in the government at the time, decided to say no.... Words fail me. With that in place, we too could have such services.
Chris
In BT's defence, they did offer about 15 years ago to cable up the enitire mainland UK with fibre to the doorstep at their expense (estimated at around £10-£15 billion) in return for the right to maket multimedia services down these lines to our homes. Someone in the government at the time, decided to say no.... Words fail me. With that in place, we too could have such services.
Chris
19 November 2003, 11:35 AM
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Oh I agree on comparing us to the Japanese in general but its just another thing we are so far behind on. Ok some people might say whats the fuss about its only internet access, but the point here is that business and profit is ultimately going to be driven by the web. BT are one of the biggest players in the telecom business in the West yet they are one of the worst for providing new technology. Its not so much the fact I just want 26mbs at home (although that speed boggles the mind ) its more a case of so many companies treat its customers badly in this country and they couldn't care less. Example - why have BT still got half the country to network for broadband access when the whole country should have it and should have had it ages ago?!
) its more a case of so many companies treat its customers badly in this country and they couldn't care less. Example - why have BT still got half the country to network for broadband access when the whole country should have it and should have had it ages ago?!
19 November 2003, 11:38 AM
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Chris if we had just half that bandwidth it would be very impressive. Saying we couldn't make use of it is only because of what we have been limited to so far so the hardware hasn't been put in place to deal with anything faster. If it couldn't be used im sure the Japanese wouldn't have bothered developing it.
19 November 2003, 12:02 PM
#15
Odd how BT are so behind....I mean Blueyonder have had 2Mbs access for ages, but then it is £50. Then compared to the Japs (sorry, Japanease 
)who offer over 10times that at more than half the price!!
Basically UK companies are milking us for what they can before offering something better - For example, they get you to have sky, then they make you switch at cost to sky digital.... then they offer you Sky+ for "just" so many pound extra [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Compared to many countires we are behind, but by no means we are the worst, but we are one of the most expensive!!
)who offer over 10times that at more than half the price!! Basically UK companies are milking us for what they can before offering something better - For example, they get you to have sky, then they make you switch at cost to sky digital.... then they offer you Sky+ for "just" so many pound extra [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Compared to many countires we are behind, but by no means we are the worst, but we are one of the most expensive!!
19 November 2003, 12:05 PM
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LOL! there is a turn up... but having said that it has taken me almost 2 months to get internet at home.. and then they give me a 1m internet cable to connect with! So now I have to go out and spend another 40 euro for a cable which is long enough.. But THEN I will have fast internet
Neal
(errr, and yes - people who work in or for german companies usually do!)
So now I have to go out and spend another 40 euro for a cable which is long enough.. But THEN I will have fast internet Neal
(errr, and yes - people who work in or for german companies usually do!)
19 November 2003, 12:10 PM
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the other thing here is most houses come as standard with ISDN phone lines for about 15€ a month and for another 15 € a month I upgraded to ADSL my isp is tiscali and I pay 19.99 € a month for unlimited access.I pay about 45€ amonth for unlimited internet access and I also have 3 phone numbers on the same line. not bad eh. Come on Britain sort yourselves out.
Oh yeah and I had the aircon refilled on my scoob and it cost me naff all
Oh yeah and I had the aircon refilled on my scoob and it cost me naff all
19 November 2003, 12:26 PM
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A close friend of mine works for BT, and the reason that BT have lagged so far behind is because OFTEL screw them into the ground in the name of competetiveness.
BT are well aware of the speed potetnial of ADSL, and that they could offer products greatly improved in speed/cost terms, but cannot because of the nature of their near monopoly and the danger to competitors it poses.
Unlucky for us eh?
Geezer
BT are well aware of the speed potetnial of ADSL, and that they could offer products greatly improved in speed/cost terms, but cannot because of the nature of their near monopoly and the danger to competitors it poses.
Unlucky for us eh?
Geezer
19 November 2003, 12:33 PM
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BT always blame OFTEL. All they have to do do stop OFTEL getting upset is ensure they offer a competative wholesale product alongside the retail product. Hardly rocket science.
I've worked with many BT engineers and they all think the company is a joke. One guy told me he'd been with BT for 30 years. He said his job is no longer to fix problems, but to prove the problems are not his departments fault.
I've worked with many BT engineers and they all think the company is a joke. One guy told me he'd been with BT for 30 years. He said his job is no longer to fix problems, but to prove the problems are not his departments fault.
19 November 2003, 12:37 PM
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BT are an absolute joke. When I signed up to Pipex for £23 a month BT were still selling their adsl package for £40 a month! Err hello sort your feking business out and get in line with everyone else! Especially as those service providers are paying BT for the network and still making a profit, so why the hell were BT trying to charge £40 on their own network!!! Rip off merchants and nothing to do with OFTEL!
19 November 2003, 01:38 PM
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That's called consumer choice.
If somebody justs signs up for £40 p/m without looking around, more fool them!
I could try to sell cars at 20% more than the garage down the road. Nothing to stop me. If a mug will pay that much, who cares?
If somebody justs signs up for £40 p/m without looking around, more fool them!
I could try to sell cars at 20% more than the garage down the road. Nothing to stop me. If a mug will pay that much, who cares?
19 November 2003, 01:44 PM
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Why would you question it though? Surely our friends across the other side of the world wouldnt bother with that much if they couldnt use it? Like I said earlier arnt we just use to saying oh we dont need more than 2mb here just because we have slow servers and restricted networks that can't cope with fast data transfer? So its more a case of improving our overall infrastructure and hardware more than oh we dont need it.
19 November 2003, 01:53 PM
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'Cos, IMHO, you need to cost justify these things. I've got 512k broadband at home. I could have 2Mbps if I wanted. All it means is the weekly AV updates download in five minutes instead of three. Not a great loss.
What applications need that much bandwidth?
What applications need that much bandwidth?
19 November 2003, 02:00 PM
#28
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But thats the whole point, the cost justification isnt there because of the rip off prices. Japan are having 26mbs for less than what we pay here for 512k! When you get to that low costing then price justification just doesnt come into it.
In addition its not about apps though is it, its about how fast you can download updates or whatever off the net. Even with 512k a 100mb microsoft update for example still does't just come down in a couple of minutes, you still have to wait for it to come down instead of it being there in seconds.
In addition its not about apps though is it, its about how fast you can download updates or whatever off the net. Even with 512k a 100mb microsoft update for example still does't just come down in a couple of minutes, you still have to wait for it to come down instead of it being there in seconds.
19 November 2003, 02:03 PM
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I put in the 2MB Business Service in the house so I could host web servers etc.., the download speed is fine and seems i am in a resdintial area with a business service contention doesnt come in to it really, when ever I do a speed test over the internet I can pretty much guarantee I will get 2MB or just under back.
The only **** thing is even thought I have 2MB down stream, I only get 256K upstream!, which means people downloading from my website can only connect at 256K which is ****.
Possibly thinking of going GHSDSL over EPS9's using DSLAM to our datacentre..., Upstream here we come!
Rgds
Matt
ps, sorry for the geekyness...
The only **** thing is even thought I have 2MB down stream, I only get 256K upstream!, which means people downloading from my website can only connect at 256K which is ****.
Possibly thinking of going GHSDSL over EPS9's using DSLAM to our datacentre..., Upstream here we come!
Rgds
Matt
ps, sorry for the geekyness...
19 November 2003, 02:24 PM
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There's more to consider than the local loop B20
As the very wise REV has pointed out, you need to upgrade the whole infrastructure. 10Gb switches for Linx backbones don't grow on trees.
As the very wise REV has pointed out, you need to upgrade the whole infrastructure. 10Gb switches for Linx backbones don't grow on trees.