Jye_0

With plumbers earning £70,000 pa and now builders earning this, combined with a global slowdown in IT, should younger IT people think about retraining?

They say even unskilled workers at Terminal Five will earn £32 K pa.

BBC News

Olly

They should do.

Trouble is, kids these days have it too easy. Most are frightened of hard graft, and would much rather work in a nice cosy office playing solitaire or reading Scoobynet than laying concrete in January at Terminal 5 or lay copper pipes in a roofspace in August.

Tradesmen are in massive demand, there just aint any now, and no-one is coming into the trade. Good tradesmen (not pretend DIY cowboys) are even rarer. Basic supply and demand.

rr_ww

The people that are in IT and are going to retrain to be trades people are the idiots of this world. They're the same people that heard that the IT industry pays £50-100 p hour. So they decided to jump on the bandwagon. To the detriment of the real skilled people in the sector. So now, cos theyve heard about plumbers et al getting a high wage, the next bandwagon is about to be jumped!

Its only a short term thing, if the market gets flooded with cowboys then nobody wins. Its just like around the Y2K bug thing. Not enough bodies so they can charge a higher rate. If they were told that binmen get £80K wouldnt they all try and do that?

IMHO

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Of course, these sorts of salaries are only available in the south:
A mall cleaner gets £6 an hour in Milton Keynes, while a lorry driver only gets £5.50 in our area.
Alcazar:

marty_t3

rr_ww,

How can you call someone who has years upon years of training and experience in IT an idiot. Seems to me that the idiot is the IT guy who remains sat at his desk earning 20-30k a year when he could spend a few months retraining and then be out working as a tradesman for 30-50k.

The reason i ended up it IT over a decade ago was that's were the money was at the time. The market has changed and anyone not willing to stand back and look at the overall picture is a fool. It takes years of training to even get into IT. It takes a few months to be a bricklayer.

Give me a trade job anyday...

Marty (IT Analyst at the moment)

grabber

lol. "it takes a few months to be a brick layer"
those that take a few months are the cowboys, if you want a decent tradesman you'll be training for around 2 years!

LG John

Things like this just don't suprise me anymore! I did 4 years of uni and 2 years of Local Authority experience to earn £21k a year. The prospects of serious wage increases are pretty slim from here on in.

I have a mate that did a 4 year engineering apprentiship (remember he earned for 4 years while I didn't). He gets WAY more than me and has better progression prospects. I have lots of debt and he has at least 11k of savings. My other mate is the same. Another is a painter and decorator and does better than me.

Why did I go to uni? Why didn't I just learn to be a plumber or a bricky because with some hard graft I could have become a good bricky or plumber and made more money than I do for considerably less stress. If I had my time again and was 16 there is no way I'd have gone to uni.

IMO you can do a lot better than go to uni these days

rr_ww

Marty

I dont think you understand what Im saying. So I'll try again IN A MORE SIMPLE MANNER (Jeez these IT bods)

Around 1998/99 time, people started getting edgy about Y2K. So the people in the IT trade "milked" it a bit, in a bid to get higher wages. Nothing wrong with that, its supply and demand obviously.

But, loads of people (gen public) caught wind of it and decided they wanted in on the big money. So there became a shed load more people looking for IT work. This meant that the original IT workers (at a guess people like you) started getting less money, the demand was being met, because of the influz of more "specialists"

Now, these people (the short termers) are finding that the IT ind cant support all these people at the higher rates. So there are cutbacks etc. So these people are now looking around for the "next big money offers" In this case Plumbers,chippys,Sparkys. So they are quite happy to give up the career in computing to go and retrain. Its not about the job its about the money.

Again fine, if these people were any good at either. But GENERALLY they arent, so it demeans the industries. And means that those with the skills are affected through no fault of their own.

As for the remark about training to become a brickie, srry but you clearly havent got a clue, so stick to what you know best (I hope IT)

HTH

logiclee

I don't think they will stomache the four years of training to become a time served electricain.

Terminal 5 are requesting fully qualified personnel not someone who's done a few weeks at night school.

It takes around six years to become a fully qualified Electrical Engineer (Qualified but no experience)but most cowboys will call themselves that after six months of day release, charted engineers usualy go down the HND/Diploma/Degree route, some of the IT guys I have employed are not clever enough to do it.

I have heard that £80000 is available for fully qualified Elec Engineers on the 5 project.

Not in the midlands though.

Lee

STi go fast

fiddling around with sinks and loos...errr, no thanks!

and plumbers on big bucks are doing BIG hours..you want to work eves and weeksends! crack on!

T

logiclee

The salary quoted is for a 48 hour working week to comply with the EU working time directive.

There is also some form of private health insurance included as well

Lee

unclebuck

But, imagine having to battle your way to heathrow by 8am *every* morning

Not much of a life really.

logiclee

Unclebuck,

Thats why I'll stick on half the money and stay where I am.

May loose some of my staff though. A few of them earned big money on the Channel Tunnel and Jubilee Line.

Lee

marty_t3

rr_ww,

I get what your saying about folk jumping on the IT bandwagon... and yes, I agree with that. It's the reason my wages aren't going up as i expected them to.

However,

So if it takes so long to learn to be a brickie (i'd rather follow the spark route myself) why are the college courses only part time and 4-6 months long??? For a degree to get into IT you study full time for 4 years.

Don't even mention apprenticeships... they were just a way of getting some teenage school leaver to work for pennies for a few years while learning a trade. They were more about labour than training.

Anyway, at the end of the day, if we weren't getting paid, we wouldn't go to work. The whole idea of work, regardless of chosen career, is to earn money.... the more the better

pslewis

Why would ANYONE get out of bed for less than £50k?? Here in the South certainly!!

Pete

logiclee

Marty,

I did six years of training, first four years 50% college, 50% hands on training then 2 years with about 80% at Uni.

All these fast track courses mean nothing. We will not and most companies will not employ electricians that have not done a time served training package/apprenticeship. The majotity of reputable firms offer good apprenticeships not the cheapo gvernment jobby. Any monkey can go to night school to mess about with 240v house wiring, we are talking major installations here.

Our current apprentices are taking around 5 years to complete the package to become electricians. Their schooling takes 3 years at two days a week. If they are suitable we may send them full time to Uni for a further two years for their degree.

After we authorise them as Electricans we keep them on lower voltage work for about a year until we are satisfied the are fully competent.

The industry is not stupid, we won't employ someone who will end up dead or killing someone.

Cheers
Lee

Jye_0

pslewis, the topic was to discuss the viability of retraining for trades and IT, not brag about how much 'you' earn.

I wouldn’t get out of bed for £50,000 if it involved manufacturing weapons of mass destruction but I would if the job involved making a positive contribution to society. And please no drivel about how we need said weapons to keep the peace, start another thread if you want to bum your own chum.

pslewis

Jye_0 - you REALLY are a ******* arent you?

Go back, re-read what I said and come back and apologise!!

I did NOT brag about what I earn - I will not say what I earn, its nobodys business but mine!!

What I said was, 'Why would anyone get out of bed for less than £50k in the South'?

It DID NOT say, "Look at me I earn £50k PLUS" - you complete ***!!

Its hardly surprising that you struggle to earn a living wage as I certainly wouldnt hire someone with your spineless abilities!! WE employ real men, not kids like you

Pete

Jye_0

Woopy do you’re just so predictable. I can read np, but further to that I can read into what a terribly sad and insecure old man you are.

The only reason you posted was to say, “Hey look at me everyone, I’m penislewis, I stay in the south and get paid loads cos I’m so big and clever and everyone else who's not me is a pleb”. Yawn, we’ve heard it all before *****. You’re boring as hell old man.

What’s wrong, are you dribbling cos the care assistants hid your false teeth again?

pslewis = elderly unstable mentalist in ‘care home’ for people who thought they were once well paid nuclear physicists.

marty_t3

Logiclee,

The courses i'm refering to are bricklaying courses. I gather you are an Electrical engineer (a well qualified one at that) which i'm sure you will admit, requires considerably more training and education that a bricklayer.

As for plumbing, to use an example, my brother in law is currently working and training as a plumber. He changed from catering to plumbing last year and should be (re)qualified by the end of this summer. He had no qualifications whatsoever before he started trainging last year.

oh...one more thing....

is there such a thing as a 'chartered bricklayer'???

logiclee

No idea mate

Couldn't do it myself, don't do heights very well.
30% of our staff won't do pylons or lighting towers so I'm not on my own.

Lee

dnb

3.3 volts is a high voltage to me

Although it is tempting to see if I can expand on my electrical skills... (MIEE, hopefully with CEng in a year or so...)

BTW money isn't everything - I'd rather have a job I enjoy doing than simply one that paid loads. (Would love a job that did both)

BOB.T

I'd pay good money to watch a retrained IT bod on a building site You might be able to lay a brick after six months, building a house is a different world, then, as with most of the trades you've got the horrendous p*ss taking, letching and beer swilling

I've gone the other way, just at the wrong time prolly I was a mechanic but now have a better paid (for now) office job. Nobody wants to fix cars anymore, they'll be crying out for mechanics soon but I'm not sure I'd go back to it, can't be arsed with whinging customers anymore

rr_ww

BOB T

SNAP (Soon!!) Im also sick of the Motor Trade. So Im on the lookout for something else. What do you do now? Who did you see to get advice etc. Cos to be honest all my qualifications (BTEC Nat Dip and NVQ's) point towards the MT. Did you retrain at college?

Sorry for so many questions

Richard

dnb

BOB - I know what you mean - I used to work on a farm while at school, then did some labouring for a small building co. while I was at uni. It paid the bills, but I can't say much else for it!

BOB.T

Richard,

The firm I work for now deals with data for the motor trade, my knowledge of cars was more important than being able to use a pooter I was very lucky really cos it was a mate who got involved with it first, then expanded to me, another mate and now my brother aswell

I really wouldn't have the faintest idea how you'd do it properly

Jye_0

But the point is IT has peaked. Even IBM in Greenock are throwing in the towel for Korea or somewhere

rr_ww

Cheers Bob T

marty_t3

Jye_o,

That's why i left Greenock 2 years ago. It was obvious at the start of 2001 that the whole IBM/Fullarton thing was gonna go t1t5 up. Thinking back on it it was quite a good career move Now I just gotta get out of IT

tittiecarcar

oh my god this thread has made me so angry .who do you i.t guys that think there so bloody clever cause you sit in your little offices pushing buttons allbloody day think you are ? (not meaning the guys who have stuck up for the trades man of course)let me tell you some thing even if you people had all the retraining in the world you could never make a living in the trade because you clearly cant do the hard graft it takes to get good at the jobs you have been trained for let alone what it takes to earn out in the building trade.
my husbands in the trade hes not a bricky or a sparky hes a jointer thats drylineing to those that dont know,and yes he gets good money but he works hard for it , what ever the weather hes out of the house before it gets light and works his **** off all day. if hes ill he dont get paid,if he takes a holiday, he dont get paid at xmas when all the sites shut down for a month or 2 he dont get paid . i would like to see pslewis just try to work next to him hed work you into the ground. if you didnt faint first, you soft handed little whinger.
clearly i think my husband is the hardest working man in the world but the fact is i admire him for geting out there each day doing a bloody hard job and how dare the likes of pslewis imply that he is some how not intitled to the money he works hard for just because he works with his hands.
rant over