Shame isnt it?
23 October 2002, 11:25 PM
#1
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Estelle Morris getting driven out of her post - and to55ers on here saying, 'About time'!!!
If they had HALF the ***** to do a job like that then I would take notice, the fact is they havent!!!! So I ignore the useless articles - mostly stuck-up Tories and people desperate to think that they could hold a candle - I have news for you, you are in the shadows and will remain so!
Pete
If they had HALF the ***** to do a job like that then I would take notice, the fact is they havent!!!! So I ignore the useless articles - mostly stuck-up Tories and people desperate to think that they could hold a candle - I have news for you, you are in the shadows and will remain so!
Pete
23 October 2002, 11:36 PM
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Not really, just pi55e5 me off big time when to55ers come on here and slag our good ladies and gentlemen in government off for trying to do their job - when most wouldnt have a clue how to measure up!!!!
I am an unpaid Chairman of Governors of a large Secondary School - the workload is immense, the complainers are many, the rewards are great in doing what you can to help build a future - most sit on their 4rses and do NOTHING but moan and put others down and they are, to me, a bunch of REAL To55ers!!
IMHO of course!!
Pete
I am an unpaid Chairman of Governors of a large Secondary School - the workload is immense, the complainers are many, the rewards are great in doing what you can to help build a future - most sit on their 4rses and do NOTHING but moan and put others down and they are, to me, a bunch of REAL To55ers!!
IMHO of course!!
Pete
23 October 2002, 11:42 PM
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Hi Pete have not seen you on here for ages, in fact have not seen anyone i know for ages, i know we have been out of the country for the last 2 weeks (100 degrees+) and its half term next week too !!!!!!!.
Jon.
Jon.
23 October 2002, 11:52 PM
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Florida was beautiful, Zena and her sister swam with the dolphins @ Discovery Cove and you know DID NOT see one Subaru on the road, did see the Shuttle though land on Friday @ Kennedy space center.
Jon
Jon
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24 October 2002, 12:01 AM
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gettin' back on topic... I agree.
Why do people see the need to demonize Blair et al? They've made plenty of mistakes, no doubt.
...but the alternative - it doesn't bear thinking about
Why do people see the need to demonize Blair et al? They've made plenty of mistakes, no doubt....but the alternative - it doesn't bear thinking about
24 October 2002, 12:05 AM
#11
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Thank you Uncle Buck
Imagine the horrors of the alternatives?????
Lets get behind this great government, ok maybe not great, but hey they are doing jobs that I couldnt do - for less money than I would pull my socks on for!!!
How much is Tony Blair on?? £100k?? £120k?? its not much more is it? How many here would do that job for THAT!!! Not many I would imagine - even if they could, which they couldnt!!
Pete
Imagine the horrors of the alternatives?????
Lets get behind this great government, ok maybe not great, but hey they are doing jobs that I couldnt do - for less money than I would pull my socks on for!!!
How much is Tony Blair on?? £100k?? £120k?? its not much more is it? How many here would do that job for THAT!!! Not many I would imagine - even if they could, which they couldnt!!
Pete
24 October 2002, 12:13 AM
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Totally agree, it's very easy to knock, but do these people actually remember the state this country was in when the Tories were in?
I do and the longer it takes to return the better.
I do and the longer it takes to return the better.
24 October 2002, 07:16 AM
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MooseRacer - can you remember the last time Labour were in - Strikes me that the Labour Party have lost the only minister with her own set of ***** - no doubt they can get that to$$er Plunkett in her job so he can keep his promise to resign [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
No I suspect we'll get another smiling "Labour Tory" in the job who will just say yes !
I really must get out of this country before it's too late
ps I aint a Tory - but the biggest problem with this country is that Labour & the Conservatives keep getting in until they make a complete c*** of it then the other one gets in - We've been going backwads since the war (aparently)
No I suspect we'll get another smiling "Labour Tory" in the job who will just say yes !
I really must get out of this country before it's too late
ps I aint a Tory - but the biggest problem with this country is that Labour & the Conservatives keep getting in until they make a complete c*** of it then the other one gets in - We've been going backwads since the war (aparently
)
24 October 2002, 07:23 AM
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My thought whilst watching Morris describe herself as "not good enough" on the news last night was that wouldn't it be nice if all politicians could have the honesty and guts to venture such an opinion about themselves where appropriate. I suspect she's gained more credibility from her actions yesterday than she lost through the A-level fiasco in the first place.
24 October 2002, 09:02 AM
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Hello
Have you HEARD Estelle Morris? I listened to her on the radio and she kept saying "cos". As in "I ave left my job cos I can no longer...".
Shouldn't she speak properly being the Education Secretary? I just wanted someone to shout "Quick, tell me what 2 + 2 is..." and see if she could respond.
Steve.
Have you HEARD Estelle Morris? I listened to her on the radio and she kept saying "cos". As in "I ave left my job cos I can no longer...".
Shouldn't she speak properly being the Education Secretary? I just wanted someone to shout "Quick, tell me what 2 + 2 is..." and see if she could respond.
Steve.
24 October 2002, 09:21 AM
#17
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Pete
Peopl moan about the government, because the country is in ****. Never in the last 29 years have I felt so hard up, so sick of "Great" Britain, and so ripped off, as well as being held by ridiculous laws.
You cant do this that or the other, people who should be rewarded aren't (Teachers, Firemen), the NHS has gone crazy, whereby I have needed some dental treatment for the last 2 years, but they want to charge me £4000 for 2 teeth - I think not, so now I have a big gaping hole in my front teeth.
Petrol is a con, the roads are crap, and you now get arrested when you hit a burglar in your house.
All down to the government IMHO. If they would get back to basics we would be OK but they dont. Bring the Tories back thats what I say
To get on in this country you have to bea thief or an assylum seeker - anyone else can sod off.
DW
Peopl moan about the government, because the country is in ****. Never in the last 29 years have I felt so hard up, so sick of "Great" Britain, and so ripped off, as well as being held by ridiculous laws.
You cant do this that or the other, people who should be rewarded aren't (Teachers, Firemen), the NHS has gone crazy, whereby I have needed some dental treatment for the last 2 years, but they want to charge me £4000 for 2 teeth - I think not, so now I have a big gaping hole in my front teeth.
Petrol is a con, the roads are crap, and you now get arrested when you hit a burglar in your house.
All down to the government IMHO. If they would get back to basics we would be OK but they dont. Bring the Tories back thats what I say
To get on in this country you have to bea thief or an assylum seeker - anyone else can sod off.
DW
24 October 2002, 09:28 AM
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Don't want to get all rose-tinted - Estelle Morris WAS NOT good enough. She realised that, and she left.
I'm not saying that she's not principled - she clearly is - but she's not hard enough. I don't want a soft amateur to try to do the job, I want someone (no matter how unprincipled, ruthless, or disliked) to deliver.
Look at Peter Mandelson - by all accounts the most devious individual you'll find. Sent to the hardest place in the government - the Northern Ireland job - and he delivered. I wouldn't care to meet him, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, but does he get the job done? That's surely the key measure in public office.
bros
I'm not saying that she's not principled - she clearly is - but she's not hard enough. I don't want a soft amateur to try to do the job, I want someone (no matter how unprincipled, ruthless, or disliked) to deliver.
Look at Peter Mandelson - by all accounts the most devious individual you'll find. Sent to the hardest place in the government - the Northern Ireland job - and he delivered. I wouldn't care to meet him, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, but does he get the job done? That's surely the key measure in public office.
bros
24 October 2002, 09:32 AM
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DW - gotta agree, mate.
Its ironic how those calling for us to remember how "bad" it was under Thatcher and Major (funny, seemed fine to me
) forget what it was like before.
Partcicularly the higher earners on here who would have been paying tax at up to 90 odd percent on the upper band [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Before my time, but not before Pete's..LOL....
And for sure they are worse off under the new labour administration than they would have been under a tory party equivelant.
For the record, I would shoot everyone of the overpaid, underworked, self promoting "in it for themselves" politicians on both sides and start again with a clean sheet.....
Not one of them worth the air they breathe......
all in my opinion, of course
Its ironic how those calling for us to remember how "bad" it was under Thatcher and Major (funny, seemed fine to me
) forget what it was like before.Partcicularly the higher earners on here who would have been paying tax at up to 90 odd percent on the upper band [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Before my time, but not before Pete's..LOL....
And for sure they are worse off under the new labour administration than they would have been under a tory party equivelant.
For the record, I would shoot everyone of the overpaid, underworked, self promoting "in it for themselves" politicians on both sides and start again with a clean sheet.....
Not one of them worth the air they breathe......
all in my opinion, of course
24 October 2002, 09:41 AM
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For the record, I would shoot everyone of the overpaid, underworked, self promoting "in it for themselves" politicians on both sides and start again with a clean sheet.....
24 October 2002, 09:48 AM
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There are two opposing principles here.
1 everyone for himself. Look at the American system, tell me it works if you're at the bottom of the pile.
2 those who are better off helping the worse off. Social justice, redistibution, those sorts of things.
I'm a high earner, from a working class background. I currently pay for my kids education, but I'm ashamed and embarrassed that I do, mainly because I know we should have a good enough state system. The reason we have crappy hospitals, schools, roads etc is because we failed to invest properly, both in terms of planning and resource.
The Tories gave tax cuts, which is all well and good, but means that now we need to re-invest. How does anyone think this will be done other than through taxation?
If you want rubbish teachers, do what the Tories did - pay them badly and constantly belittle them. Then wait 15 years and see what gets churned out of the schools.
Or how about a poor health service - cut student grants away so the poor sods who've decided to become doctors leave after 6 years with the most enormous loans, and are tempted away (as would you be) by the salaries on offer in private practice. Oh, and under-equip the hospitals and make sure there aren't enough wards open.
But hey, at least you can give tax cuts?
And you blame this Government? They're trying to clear the mess up after the last bunch of jokers.
As for 'back to basics' - the only person I ever halfway trusted in the Tories was Major. Now he's been exposed as yet another hypocrite, my disgust with them as a party is complete.
bros
edited for spelling
[Edited by bros2 - 10/24/2002 9:50:50 AM]
1 everyone for himself. Look at the American system, tell me it works if you're at the bottom of the pile.
2 those who are better off helping the worse off. Social justice, redistibution, those sorts of things.
I'm a high earner, from a working class background. I currently pay for my kids education, but I'm ashamed and embarrassed that I do, mainly because I know we should have a good enough state system. The reason we have crappy hospitals, schools, roads etc is because we failed to invest properly, both in terms of planning and resource.
The Tories gave tax cuts, which is all well and good, but means that now we need to re-invest. How does anyone think this will be done other than through taxation?
If you want rubbish teachers, do what the Tories did - pay them badly and constantly belittle them. Then wait 15 years and see what gets churned out of the schools.
Or how about a poor health service - cut student grants away so the poor sods who've decided to become doctors leave after 6 years with the most enormous loans, and are tempted away (as would you be) by the salaries on offer in private practice. Oh, and under-equip the hospitals and make sure there aren't enough wards open.
But hey, at least you can give tax cuts?
And you blame this Government? They're trying to clear the mess up after the last bunch of jokers.
As for 'back to basics' - the only person I ever halfway trusted in the Tories was Major. Now he's been exposed as yet another hypocrite, my disgust with them as a party is complete.
bros
edited for spelling
[Edited by bros2 - 10/24/2002 9:50:50 AM]
24 October 2002, 09:54 AM
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Couldn't agree more, Bros.
Unfortunately, though, it's a lose-lose situation. I remember the morning after the Tories had finally been ousted, waking up to a non-Conservative government for the first time in my entire life (well, the first time when I was politically aware, anyway). I felt new, refreshed, and really positive. Sounds daft, but I really thought things would change.
I think it took about 4-5 weeks before I realised that the current bunch are also as much use as a chickenwire submarine, at which point depression set in and I became totally disillusioned with politics.
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Unfortunately, though, it's a lose-lose situation. I remember the morning after the Tories had finally been ousted, waking up to a non-Conservative government for the first time in my entire life (well, the first time when I was politically aware, anyway). I felt new, refreshed, and really positive. Sounds daft, but I really thought things would change.
I think it took about 4-5 weeks before I realised that the current bunch are also as much use as a chickenwire submarine, at which point depression set in and I became totally disillusioned with politics.
[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
24 October 2002, 10:02 AM
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So DW, DIABLO and MarkO - you will be getting off your 4rses and actually doing something about it then?? THOUGHT NOT!!
Pete
[Edited by pslewis - 10/24/2002 10:05:46 AM]
Pete
[Edited by pslewis - 10/24/2002 10:05:46 AM]
24 October 2002, 10:19 AM
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If they so much as vote then they'll be doing a damn sitem more than far too many. The beauty of our society (epitomised by this BBS) is that we are all entitled to have an opinion. We dont have to earn the right to express it (on a BBS or by voting).
I dont think anyone seriously suggests improvement we need will come without taxaxtion. The arguments are about the "how". Its the 2-facedness (new word?) of the curent govt that pisses me off.
- Tell people to think about their pensions - then bang a load of tax on that no-one understands expcept accountants.
- Everything is annouced to the press - not parliament. every news report is about what they "will say today" not "what they actually said yesterday". siginifcant budget changes are not explained in the budget e.g. NI changes - its was a while before we worked out the true impact of what had(nt) been said.
They appear to have no principles. Key decsions twist and turn with every shift in public opinion. They should stand up - declare whet they belive in, make the choices that requires - then see if the public still love 'em. But no - everything is "suggested" opinion is gauged and managed and something is slipped in.
And if you are from a "working class background" - whatever that they mean these days, then be thankful that some hard decisicions taken by the evil consertavies has enabled you to get to a position where you can afford private eductaion. Personally I'd be proud to be providing for myself when "a high earner". That would leave my taxes to pay for others less fortunate. It should be encouraged not something "to be ashamed off".
Deano
How does anyone think this will be done other than through taxation?
- Tell people to think about their pensions - then bang a load of tax on that no-one understands expcept accountants.
- Everything is annouced to the press - not parliament. every news report is about what they "will say today" not "what they actually said yesterday". siginifcant budget changes are not explained in the budget e.g. NI changes - its was a while before we worked out the true impact of what had(nt) been said.
They appear to have no principles. Key decsions twist and turn with every shift in public opinion. They should stand up - declare whet they belive in, make the choices that requires - then see if the public still love 'em. But no - everything is "suggested" opinion is gauged and managed and something is slipped in.
And if you are from a "working class background" - whatever that they mean these days, then be thankful that some hard decisicions taken by the evil consertavies has enabled you to get to a position where you can afford private eductaion. Personally I'd be proud to be providing for myself when "a high earner". That would leave my taxes to pay for others less fortunate. It should be encouraged not something "to be ashamed off".
Deano
24 October 2002, 12:23 PM
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Dream Weaver et al - remind me who it was that bought about all the very things you are complaining about? Dental charges, hmm, wonder who that was.
Public service pay, hmmm, wonder how good that was under the last govt.
Petrol taxes, hmmm, hardly gone up under Labour, now remind me what happended under the last govt?
Labour were a shambles in the 70's but, incase you hadnt noticed, they've changed and modernised now. Something the conservatives could well learn from if they ever want to be in power again.
Public service pay, hmmm, wonder how good that was under the last govt.
Petrol taxes, hmmm, hardly gone up under Labour, now remind me what happended under the last govt?
Labour were a shambles in the 70's but, incase you hadnt noticed, they've changed and modernised now. Something the conservatives could well learn from if they ever want to be in power again.