scoobynutta555

you call a plumber or an electrician, or anyone similar to go and do some work in your house, what do you get, "ill be around later", later comes and goes and where are they, "some crap excuse" thats where they are.

And whats more, trade accounts at places like Gibbs and Dandy, Plumb centre ets etc. For those of you that dont know, these plumbers and electricians get "trade" prices if they open up an account, some of the more untrustworthy pass the over the counter price to the consumer ( when the account prices for them are much cheaper), you and me have to pay the full price while some of them rip you off.

Sorry for rant mode if you an honest worker, but some of these guys take the pi**

zoog

totally agree - these guy's must have so much work on they can afford to let you down or be downright disinterested. The hourly rates are incredible too, no wonder they all seem to earn more than us suckers who went to university. And they don't pay tax most of the time, insisting on "cash in hand".

Reffro

Well we all know what the answer is, work 5 years for a pittance as apprentices and we'll all be sorted, any jobs that come up we can handle them. Otherwise we'll just have to grin and bear it.

BarryK

Ha ha. Like these to55ers are "professional" tradesmen.

They are to a man completely unreliable walter ankers.

Many of them are two bit DIYers having a "do".

Often you'd be better off getting some mates to help and doing it yourself.

Luke

"And whats more, trade accounts at places like Gibbs and Dandy, Plumb centre ets etc. For those of you that dont know, these plumbers and electricians get "trade" prices if they open up an account, some of the more untrustworthy pass the over the counter price to the consumer ( when the account prices for them are much cheaper), you and me have to pay the full price while some of them rip you off.

Their in business...whats the problem!!

worley

<rant mode> My CH Boiler packed up the other day.

(1) Bloke came out and within 1 minute said it was electrical and then left.
(2) 'Electrical' bloke came out and proceded to change everything on the unit, including pump, valves circuit board. He had no multimeter and no idea of how to troubleshoot. He left after 3 hours having achieved nothing.
(3) Proper bloke came out four days later, took 10 minutes to find and replace a gas flowmeter (blocked).

Suffice to say if the Landlord wasn't paying I wouldn't have let the first two idiots in.

On the Continent the title Engineer is protected by law and is held in the same high regard as Medical Practitioners and alike. It's about time the UK enforced a technical grading system to sort out the good from the bad (If Macdonalds can do it...). <rant mode off>

Crypt

Would you say the local shop is ripping you off? I mean they get their stock trade would you expect them to sell without a profit?

Would you expect a garage to sell you a car at what they bought it for? They get cars trade?

I could go on but I wont, all I can say is there must be plenty of work in your area. Whenever I get a call I'm round usually the same day. You just must of picked a bad bunch.

I hope you get it sorted soon.

scoobynutta555

i knew the "whats wrong with trade accounts they are in business" posts were coming.

Therefore u get said tradesman need to earn a living.! Get a quote and u go and check online, then post on here. I think youll choke . I did exactly the same thing, £100 cheaper online, just for a boiler. Guess what online price at www.discountedheating.co.uk was £50 cheaper and had a 3 day delivery time. NO IM NOT A DEALER FROM THEM LOOKING FOR BUSINESS! Original quote was £1500 form respected plumber.

I have been here before . I own 2 houses that i rent out, most common problems are the heating, the biggest cowboys are, u guessed plumbers. I had a guy charge me £2500 for a wall mounted combi boiler plus fitting. what did i find after, on the internet? £449 for boiler,(yes the same boiler) u cant tell m the remainder was for labour, One man band 2 hours. And the classic is many rip off in our job, but i dont. I cant stand them blokes What did i choose????????

and crypt, hate to shatter the illusion. the online direct prices were cheaper by up to £1000 prices i was quoted from "respected" plumbers, (supply only). So unless u have local knowledge of my plumbers get your facts right.

I only hope i have saved at least one person on SN the misfortune of a dodgy plumber and their prices! (no im not a liberal and want to save the world!)



[Edited by scoobynutta555 - 10/18/2002 2:30:00 AM]

sebastian

Plumbers and electricians and builders.....

These drug-smoking, soccer-thug cowboys charge professional rate fees, yet deliver totally unprofessional service 8 times out of 10. Biggest rip off in "rip off Britain" by miles.

The severe deflationary recession around the corner will shake the ***** out, that's all I can say.**** em.

zoog

Next time i hear:

Sharp intake of breath and slow, grave head shaking followed by
"tut..tut.. tut....who put this in mate?? needs completely refitting/building/wiring...."

I'll get my shotgun out.

chiark

There *are* good ones out there. Go for personal recommendations from someone in the area, as that's always best.

Our boiler needed servicing at the old house. Wife's friend's Dad is a CORGI gas fitter and does this for a living, so he came around, fitted a bigger pilot light and allegedly solved a problem.

Boiler started kicking out soot like craaaazy.

Phone three guys.

One comes around an hour late, opens the boiler cupboard door, says "it's knackered, you need a new one, it'll be 1500 quid, I can start tomorrow".

Another comes around next day, says "ooh, don't do pottertons, you need a new boiler, 1200 quid, I can start tomorrow".

This is in mid december, which I would imagine is a busy time for these guys...

Final one turns up three days later, which is the first time they could get to us, says "these boilers last forever, let's have a look", strips boiler down, finds pilot light is completely wrong for the boiler as the flame is touching the boiler wall (therefore creating loads of soot). Put in a temporary fix, quote 40 quid for parts and labour to replace and service, come back three days later and do it all for the agreed price.

Since then they've serviced all our gas stuff, we've recommended them to everyone, no-one's reported anything but praise and amazement at how good (and reasonable) they are...

The good guys are the busiest ones that take the most time to get to you, but there's a reason why they're busy IMHO.

For electrical, I do it myself with advice from my father in law, who's in the trade. Some plumbing is easy, other stuff is the work of the devil

paul w

Just to add,got several houses i rent out and do all my own work,i've installed 3 combi ch systems,check out this site for exellent value with quality products and good boiler choice.

click here

Paul

paul w

Also corgi gas certificates,some plumbers take the pi$$,i have now found a bloke who can do the job for less than half the price of my previous plumber and he shows you what he is doing and basically reckons its a licence to print money getting charged for parts you dont need.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

If I was a retailer and I had the chance of repeat business from tradesmen then I would naturally give discount to retain them.

What is wrong with this concept?

Have to agree that most of the trademen I have had at the house could have learnt tricks from monkeys.

Nick

TomM

If all tradesmen stopped working us office boys would be fcucked - end of story!. OK, some of us may be handy with tools and can fix a leaky rad but these guys do a job that we dont want to do so fair play to them making good money from us!, I would gladly make money from them if the shoe were on the other foot!

My housemate is a fully qualified plumber who has been doing it since he 16, he is now 25 and is very good at what he does. Whilst I agree that there are many many bad tradesmen out there I saee this a little from thier point of view. My mate sometimes comes home so stressed because they have to deal with the general public - who we all know are irritaing and testing, some of these people make him so mad he purposely overcharges them! - bad thing?, I dont think so!

He buys stuff for peanuts compared to what the end sell is, thats why there is such a thing as an RRP, whatever they get it for at trade is a bonus for them!. He always adds a bigger marker depending on the customer, Iam sure alot of them do. If the customer is being a tosser or rude then wallop - on goes another £50 to your bill!. I spent almost a year as an apprentice plumber when I left scool and I have to say these guys are generally the salt of the earth, very amusing and just earning a living!. I know that my company makes thousands of people but you dont hear upcry from them, because it isnt face to face and we are not in thier home doing the work in front of them.

I agree that there are a lot of rogue tradesmen but they are not all as bad as we make out. Its very easy for us to sit at our desks and slate these guys from out nice warm office, these guys work in **** conditions and deal with idiots all the time. Ok, they choose to do it but fairl play to them, we all need them!!

If you think we are paying them to much now just wait a few years, the country already has a shortage of Plumbers as kids coming from school dont want to do it, shame as there is very very good money in it!, and because there are so few learning the trade now the guys who are are going to clean up!!

We shouldnt tar them all with the same brush, we would be lost without them, hence why we get fleeced by them! My housemate earns almost as much as me and Ive been an IT mgr for almost 3 years, so they do alright!!!!

frisbyone

hi i am a electrician and not all of us are out to rip people of but you can end up cheesed off with customers who waste your time. sn555 if you want a electrician give me a shout if i can't sort you i have a mate who lives in luton ( fully qualified )

MarkO

Well, you would say that, wouldn't you.

apn70

It's difficult even getting them to come and give a quote, out of 4 I booked to come to quote for a bathroom only 2 turned up.

Chose one who didn't bother to turn up to start the job!! Second on took 4 days instead of 2, didn't return my key, left messages on answerphone asking for the key (then I changed the locks), put a bill through the door six months later with the wrong address on, rang them to say I'd like the cost of new locks deducting guy said "OK I'll put a new invoice in the post".....and here I am another 3 months later with no new bill....

But I'm happy 9 months without paying a plumber!!

Dirty_Den

Well, I have to agree with the 'personal recommendation' point. My uncle is a builder (has been ever since he left the services when he was younger, although he's a chippie by trade) and I've done many a day of graft with him, from small jobs to retiling a whole roof in the middle of summer. I was ecstatic when I went back to work and got to sit behind my PC again!

I've fortunately been able to learn how to do a few things here and there from working with him, and at least in the future might have an idea of whether someone is trying to rip me off or not.

It's like any other industry, you get cowboys (Yellow Pages etc is pot luck) and good ones. You're far less likely to get a cowboy if you go on recommendations.

I'd like to think my uncle wouldn't rip anyone off deliberately. He's an honest guy, BUT, and here's the but - if you treat these guys badly, you'll get treated badly back. A bit of courtesy and manners doesn't go amiss. Often they appear to do nothing but drink tea all day, but I tell you what, some of the jobs I've done are so physically demanding that you need to drink constantly. Think of it like your mechanic - if you find a good one, you stick on the right side of them don't you? And builders, plumbers etc are all matey with one another. My uncle knows sparkies and plumbers that he tries to work with, and passes work to when he's doing work. If he ends up doing a job for a right git, he tells his mate about them. These guys don't want to work for ar$eholes anymore than we do - if my uncle gets screwed by a customer, the price increases for the next job or he refuses to work for them.

Sorry, rant off, I've just had to help my uncle out when he's worked for right ar$eholes and I've been looked down on myself. It's quite amusing when my uncle tells them I've been to university etc, see the look on their faces. More often than not, the people we've been working for are total idiots themselves.

Den

logiclee

Find most of us Electricans reasonable compared to the IT industry.

Good and bad in all trades I suppose. Don't have anything to do with domestic equipment myself, not enough money in it. Lots more money in heavy industry and High Voltage work.

Some of the domestic electricains have been on a week long 16th edition course not a four to six year apprenticeship with four to eight years at college. Becareful who you let into your house.

On the plus side had a plumber in last week, quoted me 25GBP for changing a radiator, he had a total nightmare with it that wasn't his fault, took him two and a half hours and still charged me 25GBP.

Lee

MarkO

Re: builders, well I could tell you a story about a builder that'd make you shudder.

TomM

Good point, us IT boys are the biggest cowboys!!

I roll in at anywhere between 9am and 10am then take a 2 hour lunch, go home at 4.30pm and they pay me very well to do it!!!

And I can show very little end result for a days work, a sparky or plumber could show alot more!!

And I dont get my hands dirty or drive a van!

Fair play to tradesmen!!!! Keep up the good work fella's!!

David_Wallis

Whilst we are on the subject of electricians and plumbers (not a dig at all) but FFS can someone show them how to run a pipe through joists and wires through joists... not notching them...

IRC IEE / BS7xxx says 50mm eitherway.. not resting underfloorboards..

David

Crypt

What illusion? You were obviously ripped off then but you tar everyone with the same brush. Why dont you use all those "direct" suppliers then? Save yourself a heart attack.

I never claimed to know your plumbers!?!? And what facts did I have wrong? Would you go to a car sales man and demand he sells you a car for the same amount as he bought it? Might I suggest you go "direct on line" for your next car?

I really dont see where ypur anger comes from with regard to my post.

mista weava

all IMHO
lets talk ripoffs,
lets talk, as previously mentioned IT (talk about plumbers and teabreaks, what about the 7 hours a day on the net!?)
and
Financial services
and
mobile phone companies etc the list gos on - macdonalds even.
i am the director of a general building contractors, we have been in business since 1829.
there are two sides to every story. find a good plumber and stick to him is my advice.
also on the matter of cost - boilers are very expensive. also the potential disasters when things go wrong does not bear thought. thus highly skilled people should be paid properly.
there are many bad tradesmen (and i refer to all aspects of the building trade)letting the side down.
i will say that customers are a great hinderence sometimes. instead of letting the men do the job, that they are expert at, interference and fickleness cost time, materials and money.
if the job involves IT etc the person is revered as genius, but anyone doing anything practical (blue collar)it seems, is treated as a second class citizen.
i resent that and so do many tradesmen. my blokes are honest, experienced and very good at there job, and i stick up for them, when quite often, perfectly decent people (the customer)will try to lie there way out of a situation blaming the blokes when their decision has gone pear shaped! quite obviously to me, the blokes would never do the alledged mistake, the suggestion is ludicrous!
i hate these jekyll and hyde customers who are nice at first and then try to pick holes in the work and argue the bill.
we are not unreasonable, if you want quality - pay for it and by getting a local well-established firm/sole trader to do the work you should have more satisfaction.
if not pay a little less for "john" in his white van, who calls everyone else john, including if your a women, to "sort it out for you" and get ripped off and get a crap job. too many people watch homefront et al and dream of an unrealistic out come, when they only have a pittance to spend. then they get the MDF and jigsaw out, make a mess and then call in a builder to rectify, which often wastes more money than had they gone to him/her in the first place.
you guys spend thousands on running your motors - the cost of central heating systems is notcheap at anyones price or say a set of four tyres, but we all have to pay it. also not running you central heating is likely to cause trouble - not more than 10mins ago a lady phoned me about her second home, and said the heatings up the creek, it has not been run since last winter. maintenence as i am sure every one on this board knows is key to systems of any sort running properly.
any way rant over, better go and see if i can get the bugger going. also i might add that as the lady concerned has done business with us for years there will be no charge.
there are a few reputable firms still going, and i consider ourselves to be one of them
peace
weava


[Edited by mista weava - 10/18/2002 4:36:00 PM]

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I have to agree with TomM, in a couple of years at the most, this country is going to see a skills shortage of a type not seen since the end of WW1.
It's simple: kids these days are not/have not been for some time, encouraged to go into the so-called trades. There are few, if any apprenticeships, and even fewer jobs at age 16.
As the older tradesmen retire etc, there aren't any new ones coming through to take their places.
And as for the kids who now go to sixth form colleges, then on to uni, none of them are going to train to be tradesmen when they come out are they?
I had this conversation with a local builder, a reputable one, while on delivery work for a local builder's merchants, and he reckons that the shortage is here and now!
My point? Well, if you think you pay an arm and a leg now, wait a few years, until there are so few left that they can ask, AND GET, £100 an hour!!
Funnily enough, I had a similar conversation with an old guy in France, and they have the exact same prob.
And guess what? They both blame IT!!!
Alcazar

Crypt

Well said Mr weeva.

We are not all bad!

mista weava

crypt old fruit, what do you do for a living and thanks by btw- particuarly amusing that some people don't seem to understand the concept of trade price and rrp - come on!

i could talk about another aspect of our business that earns us more thankyou notes than complaints - much better and less stress,
why am i a builder contractor again?

scooby nutter

Well this thread has certainly pissed me right off.
never read such drivvel in all my life.You winge on about us so called plumbers earning some nice dough,if its so easy why dont you go and do it your ****ing self.Spend 3 or 4 hours in a roofspace in the middle of summer.Spend hours under floor boards with 1ft of room to work.go and stick you hands down toilets full of crap and ****.
Then "HAVE"to pay £300 a year to work on gas,also on top of that go for re-training at college every 5 years at a cost of £500 for 2 days training etc etc.Easy isnt it

If its so easy you can come and work for me for a few weeks,i'll have some nice jobs lined up for you

Instead of trailing through yellow pages and picking 0000000aaaaaa plumbing +heating,why not ask a friend who thry use.

We dont need to advertise because of word of mouth.

It will be a different story when one of you lot have a problem with plumbing and heating and you post a new topic up.
I have helped many people on scoobynet with their plumbing and heating problems but from now on i wont bother

Thanks

off to make another million with my corgi certificates

sebastian

The post above demonstraes perfectly the arrogant attidude that pisses people off.

If I ask friends who they use they tell me they were all sh1te and can't reccommend any of them. so its back to yellow pages lottery.