The Zohan

Coming around to the Firework season again and what do i hear on the news this am - old lady's flat set alight, the bedroom destroyed along with most of her possessions by a fecking firework thrown through her window.

Each and every year innocent people get hurt by fireworks, anyone over the age of 16 (how many 12-15 y/o kids look older that they are for god's sake can buy a box of these and the only training they get is IF they read the instructions. The shop keeper are not trained or asked to give advice either.


Fireworks should be used at organised displays by trained professionals only.

[Edited by Paul Habgood - 9/26/2002 9:07:27 AM]

chiark

I love fireworks, and half (ok 3/4) the fun is setting fire to your garden fence with cathrine wheels.

Agreed that they can be a pain in the ****, but so are cars... (ok, extreme comparison)

The availability of fireworks should be better controlled to ensure that they're only sold to responsible pyromanics/adults like myself

Nick.

P1Fanatic

Paul - dont you think that reaction is a tad OTT? Ok so there are a few instances every year whereby people and property get damaged by fireworks used in an iresponsible way. The same can be said for pretty much anything we use but we dont just go around and ban them.

I for one love fireworks and admit Ive done some stupid things with them in the past. But hey thats all part of the learning process.

I agree that we should definetly tighten laws to whom fireworks are sold to. I think 21 is a more suitable age and that shopkeepers who break this law get punished more severely. I also think a lot of parents are to blame - buying fireworks and giving them to their children negates the affect of any law.

Simon.

The Zohan

Chiark

You car comparison does not stand up to ant scrutiny.
to drive a car you must first pass a test in which you have to prove tyou have a reasonable understanding of the theory and practical skill involved. you then get a licence and to the drive you take out insurance incase you damage/injure/ whatever yourself, property and others. you tthen must use the vehicle according the the rules of the road.

Fireworks
you walk into a corner shop, buy a box and walk out you can then use the fireworks anywhere you want.


With displays - at least you can choose to go if you want to, the people are trained working to Health and Saftey guidelines and the audience is kept to a safe distance.



[Edited by Paul Habgood - 9/26/2002 9:23:46 AM]

ChrisB

Yup, endless weeks of your evening being interrupted by kids chucking bangers around and upsetting dogs.

Overpriced these days as well.

MarkO

Why would somebody throwing a sausage upset an Essex girl?
Just buy a load on November 6th, and store 'em in your loft. Bargain!

TBH, though, the problem isn't so much fireworks themselves, but the fact that their sale isn't restricted properly. They should only be sold to licenced premised, and those places should have real checks carried out to ensure they're not selling to under-16s (and I agree that the age limit should really be 18 or even 21).

The Zohan

I do not see my reaction as over the top

Having spoken with my local shop i found out that the profit on fireworks is 100% mark-up so the incentive to shift them is great, how many shops sell **** to kids - pretty much all of them, i know of several stores locally where i can buy **** at knock down prices (perhaps without duty) so the scruples of some shopkeepers can leave a lot to be desired even with severe penalties.

Really you are buying low grade explosives, to use/keep explosives you must have training, it is illegal to make/sell explosives unless you have a licence to do so. to get the licence you must pass a test amongst other things.

I like going to firework displays, Northampton has had some cracking ones over the years.

I cannot see how they can be regulated an age limit is not a sign of competance and they will still find their way to kids. even if sensible adults use them how many gardens/home firework parties can allow a 30M + saftey gap between fireworks and the people at their display - Like at a 'Proper' event?



[Edited by Paul Habgood - 9/26/2002 9:40:24 AM]

[Edited by Paul Habgood - 9/26/2002 9:41:34 AM]

Diablo

Agreed.

Should be available to licenced pyrotechnics people only and shown at public displays.

At the very least, should be available from licenced outlets.

Too many dodgy shopkeepers selling them to all and sundry [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

P1Fanatic

In an ideal world maybe. I think you will find that thousands of people in the UK have no licence, insurance or tax! Also the number of idiots on the road who have passed there test and are still a danger to everyone else on the road. You can take your test and pass then not drive for 20 years then get behind the wheel of a ferrari if you so desire.

Simon.

TAZMAN

well following the same argument we should ban anything that could conceivably cause harm to anyone if used incorrectly...buses,paper clips 9v battries....

come on there will always be the few that are irresponsiable but we shouldn't always ruin the fun for the majority that are sensible.

I am getting tired of a world where we are teaching people can't instead of can....at some point individuals have to take responsability for their actions and it is not up to society to legislate against everything...

or lets just cover the whole f**king planet in that spongey stuff they put in kids playgrounds..should make it nice and safe...

The Zohan

Taz - If you read my post then it is clear that i do not wish to ban them, just control them with Organised Public displays. this seems to be the safest way.

OK then your choice give a child a paper clip, battery or a banger, rocket, etc. AS for legislating everything, i am not a big fan. But each and every year people get hurt, maimed or killed by fireworks. Minimise the risk that's all.

ChrisB

A 9v battery or paper clip chucked through a window isn't going to burn a house down.

Chuck one of them in the street and it doesn't dissrupt people's evenings and disturb pets.

£50 of fireworks buys you 2/3rds of bugger all to fire off at home. £50 will get a family tickets to a proper display with some kick *** shells costing £200+.

Pavlo

a few years ago I was picking the wife up from the tube station, as we were walking the short journey home, some koont threw a firework from a car at us, I never really saw where it came from, but there was nobody around and cars passing.

I think they should only be sold through to licensed display holders or something, over 25s only? Dunno.

If all the money spent by individuals went towards local community displays or whatever, they would kick ***.

Paul

dsmith

*sigh* they're misused by a minority so ban the majority. Thats's everybody's answer to anything these days and its cr*p.

How about an alternative approach where shops thats ell them are reduced, the age limit is raised and people who misuse are penalised.

Soon no doubt I'll only be able to have a bonfire at "licensed" event (that wont be able to afford insurance).

Hang on I cut my finger with a craft knife - maybe I should only be allowed to cut things up at a "licensed" event.

What we dont need is an increase in the Nanny state where the default reaction to anything is "ban" it.

Deano

TAZMAN

ermmm your post title says ban em..not control them!!!


but still nanny state for nannies...hmmm has adult baby conentations..ohh eerr

DavidRB

They already cut down trees in Norwich in case conkers fall on people's heads, so it seems entirely logical...

People throw stones, bricks, bits of wood. You can't ban the item being thrown, you have to control the behaviour. The problem is, this govt. is too scared to tackle the root cause - not enough people are going to prison.

MarkO

...and not enough children are being soundly beaten when they misbehave at school.

The Zohan

So Taz you just read the title then reply - it was to grab peoples attention, bit like a newspaper headline really

TAZMAN

actually can't read or type..get my helper monkey to do that for me....

I am sorry to sound like a crank but I am genuily sick and tired of my freedom of choice to do something being eroded... As a responsible (debatable) adult (also debatable) I should be allowed to choose to have a private firework display for my kid if I want to...surely safer then going to a large open park in the dark to an organised event with god knows who prowling about...

The problem is when society tries to legislate for everyone..it does not work.... My rights to do something should only be curbed when it affects someone else to the detrement..

i.e. my right to swing my fist ends the moment it hits your nose unprovoked....of course

I may have an over simplistice view but we are in danger of civilising ourselves to death......

gets down of his soap boax and hands it to the helper monkey ( must get one that can spell next time)

chiark

There should be a license for alcohol too then...

This country has a problem with fireworks IMHO because it used to be just once a year occasion where people went mad on Nov 5th or around then...

Tiggs

BAN THEM.

no need to buy your own, there are plenty of displays.

P1Fanatic

Excellent response Tiggs. I can buy beer in a pub or bar but that doesnt mean I have to forego the right to drink it in my own home as and when I please.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Agree with Chiark: in France you can buy fireworks, and MUCH fiercer ones than ours, any time of the year. I've personally never seen them being abused.
As regards the frirework "thrown" through the old lady's window: I wouldn't like to try and stop anyone from buying fireworks, if they could throw something that high!!!:

dsmith

You can get a taxi or bus, but I still like driving my own car (which is far more lethal than a firework when in the wrong hands).

MarkO

This coming from Mr Liberal who also wants to ban children from climbing trees on property which is public land.

I enjoy fireworks. They're good fun, whether watching them, or launching them yourself.

Most 'pro' displays I've ever been to have been sh*te - long delays between each firework, and you're usually made to stand 1/2 a mile from the actual display. They also play crap music in the background. The only public displays I've seen which have been any good are

1. The Leeds Castle fireworks show
2. The millenium one
3. The jubilee one
4. Jean-Michel Jarre's docklands concert back in '88.

The main point here is that fireworks are not the problem. Banning them won't make any difference - people will just buy 'em in France, or wherever, and let them off anyway.

What you really need to do is make the fireworks bigger and more powerful. Then when the stupid idiots start messing around with them, Darwin's theory will come into practice and the problem will solve itself.

TAZMAN

you see the problem is there are to many Habagood hero's in todays world...

I'll get my coat...back to muppet land for me then

cue tumbleweed

Dream Weaver

So on the same token we should ban CARS

They kill 30 people A DAY in the UK.

I for one, dont want to lose the pleasure of driving. I hate it when people want to ban everything - gets on me ****

TAZMAN

I think we should ban getting on ****!!!

Tiggs

lets just ban kids then we can keep the fireworks!

and marko, i like to think of myself as very middle ground politicaly...after all i only wanted to get rid of the kids to defend my (well sort of my) trees..nice and lefty/green!

T

TAZMAN

hmm what are we gonna do when they want to ban banning?