A Levels - Discuss
15 August 2002, 01:28 PM
#1
Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Staffs
Posts: 23,573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2194558.stm
So, getting easier or everyone getting clever?
I expect there's quite a few SN's with kids who've just gone through A levels and confirm they've worked damn hard for their results.
"They talk of "driving failure out of the system" - and are predicting a 100% pass rate within a few years."
Hmmm. Not sure if that's good or bad...
"But Chris Woodhead, former chief inspector of English schools watchdog, Ofsted, said the prospect that every student might pass made a mockery of the idea of exams to differentiate between pupils."
Interesting view point.
So, getting easier or everyone getting clever?
I expect there's quite a few SN's with kids who've just gone through A levels and confirm they've worked damn hard for their results.
"They talk of "driving failure out of the system" - and are predicting a 100% pass rate within a few years."
Hmmm. Not sure if that's good or bad...
"But Chris Woodhead, former chief inspector of English schools watchdog, Ofsted, said the prospect that every student might pass made a mockery of the idea of exams to differentiate between pupils."
Interesting view point.
15 August 2002, 01:34 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Carnetix, Adams and Nitosport
Posts: 12,602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If everyone gets a pass grade then surely it is making a mockery of the system.
It all comes down to the "no one loses" mentality that is seeing competative sports being pushed from the schools as well.
When GCSEs were introduced they said that no one would fail. Right... no one failed but you could get a grade (U for Unclassified) that pointed out that you either didn't bother turning up to the exam or you really shouldn't have bothered turning up!
It all comes down to the "no one loses" mentality that is seeing competative sports being pushed from the schools as well.
When GCSEs were introduced they said that no one would fail. Right... no one failed but you could get a grade (U for Unclassified) that pointed out that you either didn't bother turning up to the exam or you really shouldn't have bothered turning up!
15 August 2002, 01:37 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: South Hampshire
Posts: 4,818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Teachers are being set stupid targets and work bl**dy hard to reach them...well, the kids reach the targets if you see what I mean 
When all the hard work happens and results are out everyone's told it's because papers are getting easier....as you can tell this p*sses me off a bit 
When all the hard work happens and results are out everyone's told it's because papers are getting easier....as you can tell this p*sses me off a bit
15 August 2002, 01:47 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 4,496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah but I know a lecturer at a well established university and he has said that the level of the stundents he gets year on year are getting worse.
I know when we went from GCSEs (second year to do them) up to A Levels, we had to do a maths bridging course inbetween to cover the work that had been dropped from the old O-Level syllabus.
Not to take credit away from those students that work hard, but I do think the overall level has dropped slightly (from the info I've been given).
All IMHO of course
I know when we went from GCSEs (second year to do them) up to A Levels, we had to do a maths bridging course inbetween to cover the work that had been dropped from the old O-Level syllabus.
Not to take credit away from those students that work hard, but I do think the overall level has dropped slightly (from the info I've been given).
All IMHO of course
15 August 2002, 01:57 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: South Hampshire
Posts: 4,818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course what you have to remember is the traditional A-levels' have changed to A1'a and A2's and students are doing a much wider range of subjects...
Jen
Jen
15 August 2002, 02:07 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: London
Posts: 4,891
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This makes my blood boil.
The whole point of 'A'-Levels is to give an indication of how well each student did relative to his peers. Therefore, somebody with an A-grade this year can be expected to be better than somebody with a B-grade last year and the year before.
Turning the grades into an absolute quantity is stupid. People claim that it helps stop the academic losers from slipping through the cracks, but what about those who are above the average? They now have no way of showing their excellence.
The whole point of 'A'-Levels is to give an indication of how well each student did relative to his peers. Therefore, somebody with an A-grade this year can be expected to be better than somebody with a B-grade last year and the year before.
Turning the grades into an absolute quantity is stupid. People claim that it helps stop the academic losers from slipping through the cracks, but what about those who are above the average? They now have no way of showing their excellence.
15 August 2002, 02:11 PM
#7
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 19,910
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is ridiculous I agree!!!!
Maybe the outstanding pupils should consider the S-level papers that are done for Oxbridge students? (are they still about??? I did one in physics when I took my A-levels)
But then again why should the outstanding pupils do so much extra work to prove that they are that good when the A-level system can do just that if worked properly!!!!
Maybe the outstanding pupils should consider the S-level papers that are done for Oxbridge students? (are they still about??? I did one in physics when I took my A-levels)
But then again why should the outstanding pupils do so much extra work to prove that they are that good when the A-level system can do just that if worked properly!!!!
Trending Topics
15 August 2002, 02:12 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: South Hampshire
Posts: 4,818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mark O - I completely agree!
However, doing 5 subjects in year 12 and 3 in year 13 will also help give a solid grounding in a wider range of subjects, therefore, a wider skills base which is of course better for the future workforce. It will also build specialisms in year 13 to ensure skills are worked upon so University isn't a massive step i.e. students aren't just "jacks of all trades". It has the added advantage of if you wider choice as you have the extra year to choose your specialism and you havn't blocked avenues with having to essentially choose your career at 16....but that's also just IMHO!
Jen
[Edited by Jen - 8/15/2002 2:12:57 PM]
However, doing 5 subjects in year 12 and 3 in year 13 will also help give a solid grounding in a wider range of subjects, therefore, a wider skills base which is of course better for the future workforce. It will also build specialisms in year 13 to ensure skills are worked upon so University isn't a massive step i.e. students aren't just "jacks of all trades". It has the added advantage of if you wider choice as you have the extra year to choose your specialism and you havn't blocked avenues with having to essentially choose your career at 16....but that's also just IMHO!
Jen
[Edited by Jen - 8/15/2002 2:12:57 PM]
15 August 2002, 02:29 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personnally, I think it's a huge scam by the government to get to their target of 50% of school leavers entering university.
It's getting to the stage where the universities will completetly ignore the A-level results, and set their own entrance exams (quite a few do already).
Of course, the students are the ones that suffer. They work really hard for the qualifications, only to find that they are going to be close to worthless. Just so the government can turn around and quote some impressive sounding stats, just before the next election.
It's getting to the stage where the universities will completetly ignore the A-level results, and set their own entrance exams (quite a few do already).
Of course, the students are the ones that suffer. They work really hard for the qualifications, only to find that they are going to be close to worthless. Just so the government can turn around and quote some impressive sounding stats, just before the next election.
15 August 2002, 02:32 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: oustide the asylum?
Posts: 3,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe S levels are still about (at least they were about a year ago when a friend of a friend was tying to get to Cambridge. He made it )
I didn't bother with S levels (went on holiday instead) as Imperial College had already made me a very tempting grade offer, and I had no interest in oxbridge
)I didn't bother with S levels (went on holiday instead) as Imperial College had already made me a very tempting grade offer, and I had no interest in oxbridge
15 August 2002, 02:55 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: London
Posts: 4,891
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mine were the real thing. Got an 'A' in Physics AS-level, so my tutor suggested I go on to do the S-level in the 2nd year. Unfortunately, the pub was more enticing, so whilst I scrabbled through with a 'B' for the full A-level, the S-level kindof fell by the wayside.
15 August 2002, 02:58 PM
#14
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did A-Level Chemistry, Human Biology & Physics 2 years ago. They were damn hard!
No-one knows how hard students work but themselves. It really pees me off (and I guess that it does other students), that you work your hardest learning your course and then when you pass, instead of congratulations, all you get from the media is 'well you should have passed, theyre getting easier'. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
For heaven's sake, be proud of the children of the UK, instead of putting them down all the time.[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img][img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
No-one knows how hard students work but themselves. It really pees me off (and I guess that it does other students), that you work your hardest learning your course and then when you pass, instead of congratulations, all you get from the media is 'well you should have passed, theyre getting easier'. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
For heaven's sake, be proud of the children of the UK, instead of putting them down all the time.[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img][img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
15 August 2002, 03:05 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: London
Posts: 4,891
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But you're missing the point, Garnet. It's impossible to be proud of your children passing their A-levels when there's a 94.5% pass rate!!! It won't be long before that reaches 100%, and then kids will simply have to turn up to walk away with the certificate.
A-levels are only a step onwards, be it to employment or further education. I'd rather the kids get a meaningful qualification than have false pride embued upon them for achieving an A-grade from work that wouldn't have scored a 'C' 10 years ago.
A-levels are only a step onwards, be it to employment or further education. I'd rather the kids get a meaningful qualification than have false pride embued upon them for achieving an A-grade from work that wouldn't have scored a 'C' 10 years ago.
15 August 2002, 03:12 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Carnetix, Adams and Nitosport
Posts: 12,602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pah to the lot of you!
I did a BTEC as I could choose enough subjects that I would enjoy at A-level. Plus the course I did was more vocational (to a point) then the more (then) academic A-levels.
No AS levels when I at school!
The years were more understandable as well... <mutter> in my day we were lucky if...
I certainly wasn't meaning or implying any critisism of the teaching profession (firstly my cousin would get upset and he is much taller than I am) I think it is tough profession with very little thanks given. I know I would be able to do it.
I did a BTEC as I could choose enough subjects that I would enjoy at A-level. Plus the course I did was more vocational (to a point) then the more (then) academic A-levels.
No AS levels when I at school!
The years were more understandable as well... <mutter> in my day we were lucky if...
I certainly wasn't meaning or implying any critisism of the teaching profession (firstly my cousin would get upset and he is much taller than I am) I think it is tough profession with very little thanks given. I know I would be able to do it.
15 August 2002, 03:14 PM
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: London
Posts: 4,891
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, and whilst I'm ranting, you might have thought your exams were hard, but I'll bet they weren't half as hard as they were 10 years previously, or 10 years before that.
The standard of simple things like literacy and so on is appalling with people these days. It never fails to astound me these days as to how most people younger than me have a complete inability to write lucidly or clearly. They can't spell, punctuate, or construct grammar. And if you raise the subject (as I did on this BBS last week) they all claim to be dyslexic and say it's not their fault.
The fact is, that it is easier to get A-level qualifications these days, hence the lower standard of students entering further education. If you feel p*ssed off at the attitude towards your grades, instead of whining and asking for false pride, why not fight to make the system more representative so that future generations can emerge with qualifications to be proud of?
I was in the first year to do GCSEs, and I have no qualms in admitting that the first year was clearly an unadulterated fix in order to 'prove' the new exam system. I got A-grades in subjects that I wasn't good in, and didn't try hard in.
Luckily, it didn't matter so much, but do you really think it's good to be proud of students who move into their first employment or further education on the merits of exam results which simply don't qualify them for those positions?
The standard of simple things like literacy and so on is appalling with people these days. It never fails to astound me these days as to how most people younger than me have a complete inability to write lucidly or clearly. They can't spell, punctuate, or construct grammar. And if you raise the subject (as I did on this BBS last week) they all claim to be dyslexic and say it's not their fault.
The fact is, that it is easier to get A-level qualifications these days, hence the lower standard of students entering further education. If you feel p*ssed off at the attitude towards your grades, instead of whining and asking for false pride, why not fight to make the system more representative so that future generations can emerge with qualifications to be proud of?
I was in the first year to do GCSEs, and I have no qualms in admitting that the first year was clearly an unadulterated fix in order to 'prove' the new exam system. I got A-grades in subjects that I wasn't good in, and didn't try hard in.
Luckily, it didn't matter so much, but do you really think it's good to be proud of students who move into their first employment or further education on the merits of exam results which simply don't qualify them for those positions?
15 August 2002, 03:18 PM
#20
Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Staffs
Posts: 23,573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did a BTEC as I could choose enough subjects that I would enjoy at A-level. Plus the course I did was more vocational (to a point) then the more (then) academic A-levels.
I also did and passed A Level Computing in the 2nd year of my BTEC. Got an A
15 August 2002, 03:22 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: London
Posts: 4,891
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I never saw the point of 'N' grades either. I got one for my AS-level Maths in the first year of my A-level course.
Apparently, it's supposed to indicate that you really nearly passed the exam, but weren't quite good enough to pass. But you weren't so sh*t that you deserved a 'U'.
Frankly, it sounds like molly-coddling to me. If you pass, you pass. If you fail, you fail.
Apparently, it's supposed to indicate that you really nearly passed the exam, but weren't quite good enough to pass. But you weren't so sh*t that you deserved a 'U'.
Frankly, it sounds like molly-coddling to me. If you pass, you pass. If you fail, you fail.
15 August 2002, 03:26 PM
#23
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 19,910
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So WTF don't they do that???
I got an N first time in Chemistry (really should have done some work in the two years) I just sat there and thought WHY????
I have obviously failed so why not fail me???? I have even got a godamn certificate for it!!!!!!
I got an N first time in Chemistry (really should have done some work in the two years
) I just sat there and thought WHY????I have obviously failed so why not fail me???? I have even got a godamn certificate for it!!!!!!
15 August 2002, 03:26 PM
#24
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Carnetix, Adams and Nitosport
Posts: 12,602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like I said earlier... "oooh you didn't fail... you got 5 Z grades"
The "School of Hard Knocks" has been closed down and been turned into the "School of Fluffy Clouds and Honey"
The "School of Hard Knocks" has been closed down and been turned into the "School of Fluffy Clouds and Honey"
15 August 2002, 03:32 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: London
Posts: 4,891
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have obviously failed so why not fail me????
15 August 2002, 04:07 PM
#30
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A-levels are far easier than they were.
I took exams in the last year of O-levels, and was surprised at how easy GCSEs were. In my day (when all this was fields) an O-Level grade C was a bitch to get, and not everyone got them (less clever people taking CSEs instead). I think only 1-2 kids in my year got 7-8 Grade As (major swots), whereas seemingly half the class get 6-7 Grade As nowadays
I went onto do A-levels, and found that the following year was going to have the curriculum cut in half (which annoyed the hell out of us) and all the tricky stuff taken out.. primarily because those that had done GCSEs wouldn't be able to do the A level syllabus because it was too much of a step up. While doing my A-levels I took a GCSE in Electronics, did no work, didn't hardly revise, and got a grade B, which made a mockery of it all (given I'd have failed had it been an O level)
I took exams in the last year of O-levels, and was surprised at how easy GCSEs were. In my day (when all this was fields) an O-Level grade C was a bitch to get, and not everyone got them (less clever people taking CSEs instead). I think only 1-2 kids in my year got 7-8 Grade As (major swots), whereas seemingly half the class get 6-7 Grade As nowadays
I went onto do A-levels, and found that the following year was going to have the curriculum cut in half (which annoyed the hell out of us) and all the tricky stuff taken out.. primarily because those that had done GCSEs wouldn't be able to do the A level syllabus because it was too much of a step up. While doing my A-levels I took a GCSE in Electronics, did no work, didn't hardly revise, and got a grade B, which made a mockery of it all (given I'd have failed had it been an O level)