hoax or the real deal?
12 July 2002, 05:12 PM
#1
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www.americanantigravity.com
what do you reckon?
the beamship video (under the Beamship flight tests) is interesting at least
Neil
www.scoobyworld.co.uk
what do you reckon?
the beamship video (under the Beamship flight tests) is interesting at least
Neil
www.scoobyworld.co.uk
12 July 2002, 06:38 PM
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RaZe-=Buzz=-,
That thing you are on about was a Laser powered device.
It focussed the laser beam shone at it's base from below enough to turn the air into plasma and blow the cone along the laser beam.
They had to spin it up with compressed air to give it enough stability to stay in the laser beam.
That thing you are on about was a Laser powered device.
It focussed the laser beam shone at it's base from below enough to turn the air into plasma and blow the cone along the laser beam.
They had to spin it up with compressed air to give it enough stability to stay in the laser beam.
12 July 2002, 06:43 PM
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thats the one. At least I didnt dream it, just maybe not strictly speaking the correct topic 
. I remember the spinning bit now you've said that. Wasnt it summat to do with Jeremy Clarkson and one of his programmes?
That plasma ram jet jumbo looked the biz though...the faster it went the faster it could go and become more efficient! blimey!
. I remember the spinning bit now you've said that. Wasnt it summat to do with Jeremy Clarkson and one of his programmes?That plasma ram jet jumbo looked the biz though...the faster it went the faster it could go and become more efficient! blimey!
12 July 2002, 06:55 PM
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I saw that program on the laser powered cone craft. IIRC they had problems with the cone overheating and disintegrating due to the intense heat from the laser. In the end they used something like titanium to stop this.
Totally different design from the link posted.
Totally different design from the link posted.
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12 July 2002, 07:47 PM
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Oh, and Katana...have you actually GOT one? Just interested, cos I like them
"One" meaning a GSXR 1100 thingy with pop-up headlight, for all you non-bikers out there...or alternatively have you a sword?
"One" meaning a GSXR 1100 thingy with pop-up headlight, for all you non-bikers out there...or alternatively have you a sword?
12 July 2002, 08:47 PM
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next you'll be telling me 7 of 9 isnt a real person and I'll have to start "thinking about" that dam beta-zoid...*shudder*...
07 December 2002, 06:19 PM
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erm, at risk of banning from the mods 
Ive got to slightly disagree.....
There IS a metal cone shaped craft, its only a very small one, that is lifted by a beam of this type, Ive seen the demonstration. Cant remember what program it was on, but they fired it into the air about 50 feet in a few seconds. It carried no fuel, but was propelled by something to do with magnetism and electricity. The theory went on that "beaming" this to bigger ships that could carry people would actually be possible with big enough "this thing" and large enough "the other thing" and powerful enough "blah blah blah".....
So im sorry. Its true. They can do it, and it works. #]
Oh, and in the beamship video the reason it doesnt fly up until it hits the roof is that its tied to the table. The cone one wasnt tethered to anything and would keep going up until it was blown out of the beam by the wind, then it fell back down. It was in the same program as the plasma ship thing, which was like a space shuttle type plane with a big scoop on the front. Summat to do with ram-jets i think...
[Edited by RaZe-=Buzz=- - 7/12/2002 6:25:20 PM]
Ive got to slightly disagree.....There IS a metal cone shaped craft, its only a very small one, that is lifted by a beam of this type, Ive seen the demonstration. Cant remember what program it was on, but they fired it into the air about 50 feet in a few seconds. It carried no fuel, but was propelled by something to do with magnetism and electricity. The theory went on that "beaming" this to bigger ships that could carry people would actually be possible with big enough "this thing" and large enough "the other thing" and powerful enough "blah blah blah".....
So im sorry. Its true. They can do it, and it works. #]
Oh, and in the beamship video the reason it doesnt fly up until it hits the roof is that its tied to the table. The cone one wasnt tethered to anything and would keep going up until it was blown out of the beam by the wind, then it fell back down. It was in the same program as the plasma ship thing, which was like a space shuttle type plane with a big scoop on the front. Summat to do with ram-jets i think...
[Edited by RaZe-=Buzz=- - 7/12/2002 6:25:20 PM]
07 December 2002, 08:15 PM
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Yeah, like that's big enough to have any sort of ion motor in it. Ion drives are also high specific impulse, but low thrust. As somebody further up the thread said, the only device of this type uses a laser to turn the air under the object into a plasma, which gives some thrust.
And like any respectable scientist/engineer would call any sort of propulsion device 'anti-gravity' unless it somehow shielded the vehicle from (as yet undiscovered) gravitons, or employed something like the Casimir effect.
[Edited by carl - 7/12/2002 8:17:38 PM]
And like any respectable scientist/engineer would call any sort of propulsion device 'anti-gravity' unless it somehow shielded the vehicle from (as yet undiscovered) gravitons, or employed something like the Casimir effect.
[Edited by carl - 7/12/2002 8:17:38 PM]
25 February 2003, 07:45 PM
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quick follow up here, done some investigation and this IS real - not a hoax!! It works on the bifield Browning theory and I've tracked down a chap in Essex who has a working model
Mail me if you want further info
Neil
It works on the bifield Browning theory and I've tracked down a chap in Essex who has a working modelMail me if you want further info
Neil
25 February 2003, 08:13 PM
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Yep, if I'd just invented a groundbreaking method of propulsion I'd be selling videos of it on the web, rather than trying to interest NASA, Boeing, LockMart, McDonnell-Douglas, Arianespace, etc.
25 February 2003, 08:44 PM
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I saw a programme on ion drives and they are used in space flight. There is no use for them in commercial satellites, because they don't go anywhere and always have the sun as an energy source. Ion drives are for deep space flight and can go on and on and on. The energy they produce is equal to that of a bit of paper falling on your hand. But, due to the nature of space this small amount of power constantly accelerates the object it is attached to, so give it long enough and it has the ability to go faster than any other technology we currently have available.
25 February 2003, 09:00 PM
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Carl
This technology was first discovered in the early 20th century and contractors such as Lockheed Martin have no doubt already spent some time on it. This is nothing new (therefore they cant sell it to NASA for big bucks), just quite fascinating....
Neil
(on wifes username now)
[Edited by WendyT - 2/25/2003 9:00:27 PM]
This technology was first discovered in the early 20th century and contractors such as Lockheed Martin have no doubt already spent some time on it. This is nothing new (therefore they cant sell it to NASA for big bucks), just quite fascinating....
Neil
(on wifes username now)
[Edited by WendyT - 2/25/2003 9:00:27 PM]
25 February 2003, 09:05 PM
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No detailed explanation on the website of how it works, just some pseudoscience and hand waving.
"It is based on ion-drive and Biefeld-Brown effect propulsion technology".
I repeat, for an ion drive to lift something the size of any of those things in a 1g field, the drive would have to be huge. I doubt there's an ion drive in existence that could lift its own weight in 1g.
Try to find a webpage (in English) that mentions the Biefeld-Brown effect and doesn't mention lifting craft. Highly suspicious.
I particularly like the one at http://bel.150m.com/biefeld.htm which tries to blind the reader with relativistic science.
There is mention in a vaguely proper paper at http://www.arxiv.org/ftp/physics/pap...11/0211001.pdf, but it does include the phrase "In order to find a technical description of the Biefeld-Brown effect, I performed a search of the standard article literature, and found no references to this effect. It is prudent to ask whether this effect is real or rumor. On the other hand, the Internet is full of discussions and references to this effect, including citations of patents issued @1D, see also Appendix A. In fact, patents seem to be the only official publications that describe this effect."
Citebase also lists the following about that article:
This Article's Citation/Hits History (explain?)
Caution!|To this Article|To Authors (mean)
Citations Identified|0|0.1666
uk.arXiv.org Web Hits|6|7.7500
[Edited by carl - 2/25/2003 9:20:34 PM]
"It is based on ion-drive and Biefeld-Brown effect propulsion technology".
I repeat, for an ion drive to lift something the size of any of those things in a 1g field, the drive would have to be huge. I doubt there's an ion drive in existence that could lift its own weight in 1g.
Try to find a webpage (in English
) that mentions the Biefeld-Brown effect and doesn't mention lifting craft. Highly suspicious.I particularly like the one at http://bel.150m.com/biefeld.htm which tries to blind the reader with relativistic science.
There is mention in a vaguely proper paper at http://www.arxiv.org/ftp/physics/pap...11/0211001.pdf, but it does include the phrase "In order to find a technical description of the Biefeld-Brown effect, I performed a search of the standard article literature, and found no references to this effect. It is prudent to ask whether this effect is real or rumor. On the other hand, the Internet is full of discussions and references to this effect, including citations of patents issued @1D, see also Appendix A. In fact, patents seem to be the only official publications that describe this effect."
Citebase also lists the following about that article:
This Article's Citation/Hits History (explain?)
Caution!|To this Article|To Authors (mean)
Citations Identified|0|0.1666
uk.arXiv.org Web Hits|6|7.7500
[Edited by carl - 2/25/2003 9:20:34 PM]
26 February 2003, 09:30 AM
#28
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Carl
To quote from the PDF link..."At present, the physical basis for the Biefeld-Brown effect is not understood"
Believe me, I'm as skeptical as you, BUT I've been contacted by a chap in chelmsford who is willing to demonstrate a fully working model, just trying to fix a date up.
I'll keep you posted
Neil
[Edited by NeilT - 2/26/2003 9:33:13 AM]
To quote from the PDF link..."At present, the physical basis for the Biefeld-Brown effect is not understood"
Believe me, I'm as skeptical as you, BUT I've been contacted by a chap in chelmsford who is willing to demonstrate a fully working model, just trying to fix a date up.
I'll keep you posted
Neil
[Edited by NeilT - 2/26/2003 9:33:13 AM]
26 February 2003, 09:45 AM
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Look, it must be some sort of smoke 'n' mirrors. I can't believe that if this was invented in 1927 there has never subsequently been a NASA research paper on it. If someone could find one, I'd be more prepared to think about it.
Just because something is patented doesn't mean it works (IIRC Richard Feynman held the patent on nuclear rocket propulsion, but only because LANL asked all the people working on the Manhattan project to think of any application they could and patent it).
Maybe we should club together and buy the kit to make a Scoobynet lifter. Then we could see what was going on.
Picture of an ion drive at http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap981026.html. Notice how big it is? There's also a bit about the thrust: "The ion propulsion system on Deep Space 1 carries about 81.5 kilograms of xenon propellant, and it takes about 20 months of thrusting to use it all. It increases the speed of the spacecraft by about 4.5 kilometers per second".
As the mass of the spacecraft is 500kg, that means the force generated by the ion thruster is around 0.04N. You need 9.8N to lift 1kg in 1g, so for a 10kg lifter (including the engine) you need to be producing around 100N -- 2500 times what the DS-1 thruster produces.
Just because something is patented doesn't mean it works (IIRC Richard Feynman held the patent on nuclear rocket propulsion, but only because LANL asked all the people working on the Manhattan project to think of any application they could and patent it).
Maybe we should club together and buy the kit to make a Scoobynet lifter. Then we could see what was going on.
Picture of an ion drive at http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap981026.html. Notice how big it is? There's also a bit about the thrust: "The ion propulsion system on Deep Space 1 carries about 81.5 kilograms of xenon propellant, and it takes about 20 months of thrusting to use it all. It increases the speed of the spacecraft by about 4.5 kilometers per second".
As the mass of the spacecraft is 500kg, that means the force generated by the ion thruster is around 0.04N. You need 9.8N to lift 1kg in 1g, so for a 10kg lifter (including the engine) you need to be producing around 100N -- 2500 times what the DS-1 thruster produces.
26 February 2003, 09:54 AM
#30
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I hear what you're saying! Let me see if this guy in chelmsford comes through, if so I'll hopefully be off to see him sometime over the next coupla weeks.
From his emails he says he's got a fully working model that demonstrates the same characteristics (i.e. levitating) as those seen in the Mpegs on www.americanantigravity.com .....
I'm up for building one too if the chelmsford chap can demonstrate it works, I have a full set of construction plans for one from Tim V (owner of AAG web site) I can mail them over if you like?
Neil
Let me see if this guy in chelmsford comes through, if so I'll hopefully be off to see him sometime over the next coupla weeks. From his emails he says he's got a fully working model that demonstrates the same characteristics (i.e. levitating) as those seen in the Mpegs on www.americanantigravity.com .....
I'm up for building one too if the chelmsford chap can demonstrate it works, I have a full set of construction plans for one from Tim V (owner of AAG web site) I can mail them over if you like?
Neil