Morning,

My son is currently working 12 hour shifts, 2 days, 2 nights, then 4 days off, repeat until he then gets a block of 10 days off per month. Anyway, his boss has arranged for him to be doing a presentation at 10:00hrs during the day between his two night shifts. We live 45 miles away from where he works - mainly motorway drive. A few questions spring to mind here:

1) If he's just worked a 12 hours shift (7 till 7), is he being unreasonable to say that he won't be able to attend and carry out the 10:00hrs presentation?
2) If he did hang around, do the presentation, then drive home, he's only going to get 3-4 hours sleep tops before he has to set off back to work for the next night shift, is that reasonable?
3) He's working on a quay side in a potentially dangerous environment (people do get killed), is it reasonable to ask him to do this on such little amount of sleep?
4) Does the company have a duty of care, or are the liable in anyway if they insist he does this and then he has an accident?

I don't think he has a particularly good relationship with his boss, so on one hand I wouldn't be surprised if she'd scheduled this deliberately, but on the flip side, it wouldn't be the first time she's had no clue what shift he's on. So my plan is to help him send a brief email later today just politely pointing out that he's unlikely to be able to attend the presentation as it falls during the day between his two night shifts and could it be rescheduled? If she comes back and refuses to move it, then I think we have to consider a more formal replay (including HR) citing how potentially dangerous it could be and the company would likely be liable if he had an accident either driving to/from work or at work?

Thanks

Q

 

They should have duty of care full stop youd imagine ?

is she aware of his hours ?

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1373

 

Give her the benefit of the doubt to start with ... it could be a genuine mistake on her part as you have suggested, not knowing what your son's shift pattern is. A gentle reminder that he will not be able to attend is probably the best way forward first, but rather than suggesting he is unlikely to be able to attend when not on duty, state that he will "not be available" to attend when not on duty, as the two can be perceived differently.


The presentation currently falls out his working hours so if things get formal, kindly remind your son's boss of the Working Time Regulations which state that an employee has the right to 11 consecutive hours' rest in any 24-hour period.

In answer to to your queries, in my opinion:

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No

 

Maybe his boss should book him into a hotel so that he gets his sleep.

 

Have had very similar with my youngest, even to the daily mileage.

He just told his boss that it was unreasonable and they rescheduled it for one of his days off and paid him it.

Finnish company, mind.

 

I work the same shift pattern and my boss categorically would not schedule this sort of thing.............he knows better

 

probably falls foul of EU employment laws - take it to the ECJ, be quick though

 

I've got shift teams working for me and have seen a number of issues with people crashing, falling asleep due to exhaustion just working their fixed shift.

This is absolutely unreasonable and if the presentation were business critical I would be giving your son at least half shifts before and after, but more like the days off.

Duty of care is more than the law says, it's a personal responsibility.

 

I've been a night shift manager for a number of years now so understand the challenges. Many of my superiors over the years have never worked nights and don't understand the challenges or implications of shift changes, they think you have the same flexibility as days. Just explain to her politely that it's unreasonable as it's effectively his night time as she probably doesn't even realise.

 

If he's on a 7pm-7am shift I would have thought he's entitled to 12 hrs rest before the 10am presentation ? So should finish at 10pm the night before ?

I work shifts and if I was required to attend this we have to have 12hrs rest .

Maz

 

11 hours I believe ..

 

Unless you sign into a different type of contract. At the steelworks my shift pattern includes "quick turnarounds", ie I'll finish at 10pm on a Wednesday night and be back at 6am Thursday morning. That includes a 45 minute drive home, shower, eat, sleep, wake and 45 minute drive back to work.

And I work in a particularly dangerous environment. I'd say it's unreaonable hanging around that long after a night shift.

 

Thanks everyone.

Polite note sent back saying he won't be available. He offered to go in on one of his rest days instead. Hopefully that's the end of it.

 

If he works 7pm-7am then is expected to do a presentation at 10am so the presentation starts 15 hours after he started his shift. He can only do 16 hours including travel time in any one shift then there is 11 hours between shifts.
I worked this pattern for around 15 years (until we got took off it last October) the employer realistically needs to swap his shifts with a colleague if possible and suits both parties so he does 4x12 hour days and the presentation is done in that time.
Totally breaking the working time directive asking him to do what they are! Even if that wasn't the case it's totally unrealistic to expect someone to be of any use 3 hours after a 12 hour night shift, then expect them to be in at 7pm.

 

Even if you sign away your right to the directive, the employer still has a duty of care and realistically if he crashed on the way home and said he was "forced" to attend, the employer would face liability charges.