Worry over prescribing of opiate painkillers.
16 September 2017, 11:25 AM
#1
Worry over prescribing of opiate painkillers.
Apparently government and RPS are worried about possible addictions.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...s-doctors-warn
This is yet another of the God-awful decisions taken by Bliar's Liebour government ***, coming back to bit us all in the ***.
In 2005, the then Liebour Health secretary, (yes, that was YOU, you career politician utter TURD, Burnham), brought in legislation to stop the prescription of Co-Proxamol, a widespread pain relief that worked, allowing pain relief while the user got on with a normal life. They sought to explain this by telling us that Co-Proxamol was used in quite a few suicides, and that it was actually no better than straight Paracetamol.
Both were patently untrue.
The rate of suicide is still the same as it was in 2005...of COURSE suicides have just found other methods. Just as we said. But could we tell the liberal left that? Nope.
And Paracetamol on it's own? How utterly stupid could you be? What? did they really believe this, or did they think that everyone's pain would just go away?
They did this against the advice of hundreds of thousands of GPs, consulatants, and pharmacists, and against the wishes of millions of people who relied on it.
And now they are surprised and worried that loads of people have had to turn to opiates, with the stronger possibility of addiction? Really?
You couldn't make it up, could you?
***
Here's a few more for anyone seeking to defend Liebour:
They took the cap off drinking alcohol.....now they want it back in some form.
They took the cap off gambling, now they want that back in some form
They took the cap off TV advertising, now we have 20-25 minutes of advertising in every hour's programming
What an utter bunch of know-all turds they were...and still are.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...s-doctors-warn
This is yet another of the God-awful decisions taken by Bliar's Liebour government ***, coming back to bit us all in the ***.
In 2005, the then Liebour Health secretary, (yes, that was YOU, you career politician utter TURD, Burnham), brought in legislation to stop the prescription of Co-Proxamol, a widespread pain relief that worked, allowing pain relief while the user got on with a normal life. They sought to explain this by telling us that Co-Proxamol was used in quite a few suicides, and that it was actually no better than straight Paracetamol.
Both were patently untrue.
The rate of suicide is still the same as it was in 2005...of COURSE suicides have just found other methods. Just as we said. But could we tell the liberal left that? Nope.
And Paracetamol on it's own? How utterly stupid could you be? What? did they really believe this, or did they think that everyone's pain would just go away?
They did this against the advice of hundreds of thousands of GPs, consulatants, and pharmacists, and against the wishes of millions of people who relied on it.
And now they are surprised and worried that loads of people have had to turn to opiates, with the stronger possibility of addiction? Really?
You couldn't make it up, could you?
***
Here's a few more for anyone seeking to defend Liebour:
They took the cap off drinking alcohol.....now they want it back in some form.
They took the cap off gambling, now they want that back in some form
They took the cap off TV advertising, now we have 20-25 minutes of advertising in every hour's programming
What an utter bunch of know-all turds they were...and still are.
16 September 2017, 11:51 AM
#3
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Co-proxamol = paracetamol + dextropropoxyphene. The latter is a weak opioid.
I continued to prescribe co-proxamol occasionally for up to 10 years after its official withdrawal after medicolegal advice.
I'm no fan of opioids for non cancer pain. It was in vogue for specialist pain clinics to (over)use them about 10 years ago and it created considerable problems. Gabapentin and pregabalin are looming problems too.
I continued to prescribe co-proxamol occasionally for up to 10 years after its official withdrawal after medicolegal advice.
I'm no fan of opioids for non cancer pain. It was in vogue for specialist pain clinics to (over)use them about 10 years ago and it created considerable problems. Gabapentin and pregabalin are looming problems too.
16 September 2017, 12:40 PM
#4
So what do you prescribe now? My own doctors voted NOT to continue prescribing Co-Proxamol, after a letter from the BMA frightened them.
I've tried most stuff, I was on MSContinus 30 mg x2 for quite a while, but could sleep for England. I'm now on DHC 60mg x2. The so called "morphine itch" is awful, some nights I could rip my skin off and sleep is difficult.
Most other stuff was either of no use whatsoever, or had me completely constipated
I've tried most stuff, I was on MSContinus 30 mg x2 for quite a while, but could sleep for England. I'm now on DHC 60mg x2. The so called "morphine itch" is awful, some nights I could rip my skin off and sleep is difficult.
Most other stuff was either of no use whatsoever, or had me completely constipated
Last edited by alcazar; 16 September 2017 at 12:43 PM.
16 September 2017, 04:17 PM
#6
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I no longer work as a daytime GP, but do emergency work so generally I am prescribing for acute pain or administering/prescribing in end of life situations. That is why I'm no longer prescribing co-proxamol at all and only prescribed it exceptionally where alternatives had been tried, advice had been sought and alternatives explored, but have never initiated it in a 19 year career.
For chronic non cancer pain I try really hard to find non opioid alternatives because the evidence for harm outweighing benefit is considerable. Resource availability and patient acceptability of alternatives is a challenge.
There is no panacea for pain: *** II/NSAIDs have problems with ulcers, kidney/heart failure, strokes, heart attacks, whereas paracetamol has poor efficacy and some recent safety concerns. Gabapentin and pregabalin are addictive. Amitriptyline is dangerous in overdose and can have significant side effects.
For chronic non cancer pain I try really hard to find non opioid alternatives because the evidence for harm outweighing benefit is considerable. Resource availability and patient acceptability of alternatives is a challenge.
There is no panacea for pain: *** II/NSAIDs have problems with ulcers, kidney/heart failure, strokes, heart attacks, whereas paracetamol has poor efficacy and some recent safety concerns. Gabapentin and pregabalin are addictive. Amitriptyline is dangerous in overdose and can have significant side effects.
Last edited by john banks; 16 September 2017 at 04:22 PM.
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17 September 2017, 01:45 PM
#13
It was at one time common practice not to prescribe HRT if above a certain age (40, I think) or to stop mid-late 40's.
A lot of women now suffer osteoporosis as a result, and don't even know until they have a fall or accident.
My mum is one of those people. Not helped by a GP not referring her for a X-Ray after a fall down some stairs writing it off "just bruising"....nope crushed vertebrae! Only took a second fall a few years later which knackered more vertebrae to realise this.
Obviously pain management is something of a nessecity. Not helped by GPs who keep assuming she doesn't work...she's full-time self employed!
A lot of women now suffer osteoporosis as a result, and don't even know until they have a fall or accident.
My mum is one of those people. Not helped by a GP not referring her for a X-Ray after a fall down some stairs writing it off "just bruising"....nope crushed vertebrae! Only took a second fall a few years later which knackered more vertebrae to realise this.
Obviously pain management is something of a nessecity. Not helped by GPs who keep assuming she doesn't work...she's full-time self employed!
Last edited by ALi-B; 17 September 2017 at 01:47 PM.
18 September 2017, 11:26 AM
#14
Pain management?
it's a fekkin joke.
I've been told so many times that paracetamol is fine, meanwhile it just does nothing. Yet co-proxamol relieved the pain and allowed me to function normally.
And when my lad badly broke his wrist, what did the hospital give him? Nothing, told him to take paracetamol.....
it's a fekkin joke.
I've been told so many times that paracetamol is fine, meanwhile it just does nothing. Yet co-proxamol relieved the pain and allowed me to function normally.
And when my lad badly broke his wrist, what did the hospital give him? Nothing, told him to take paracetamol.....
18 September 2017, 01:37 PM
#15
Pain management?
it's a fekkin joke.
I've been told so many times that paracetamol is fine, meanwhile it just does nothing. Yet co-proxamol relieved the pain and allowed me to function normally.
And when my lad badly broke his wrist, what did the hospital give him? Nothing, told him to take paracetamol.....
it's a fekkin joke.
I've been told so many times that paracetamol is fine, meanwhile it just does nothing. Yet co-proxamol relieved the pain and allowed me to function normally.
And when my lad badly broke his wrist, what did the hospital give him? Nothing, told him to take paracetamol.....
I've had to take the car keys off my mum at times due her stumbling round like a drunk because she's popped that many paracetamols during the day: Shes still in pain too. I hate to think what her liver is like; The GP just palms it off just like the 'bruised back'. She's still at work too; Public sector and corperate workers fail to realise that you can't just go off on the sick if you run a small company or are self employed...who runs the company or helps out? Nobody! So it all goes to pot.
Meanwhile the unions in their lofty towers are yapping about the plight of bin men, tube workers and who closes the sodding door on a train!
18 September 2017, 02:18 PM
#16
Sounds like you need to take a holiday to India and bring back a suitcase full of co proxamol... a mate of a mate did it years ago but with viagra... you might want to chuck a few of them and some happy pills in it while you're at it. 
Can't you get co codamol... my Mrs had them a few years back before she had her spine fused they worked wonders.
I hear certain cough syrups are pretty good for pain and misery.
Can't you get co codamol... my Mrs had them a few years back before she had her spine fused they worked wonders.
I hear certain cough syrups are pretty good for pain and misery.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 18 September 2017 at 02:20 PM.
25 September 2017, 12:01 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
So In summary.
Jeff has a moan about the "Government" doing something he disagrees with and claims to know better concerning adiction and opiates.
An experienced and qualified doctor confirms that opiate pain killers do, indeed, create problems.
Said doctor then explains why there is no panacea for pain management.
Jeff ignores this and continues his rant with "Pain management? ... it's a fekkin joke"
This, ladies and gentlemen, is yet another insight into the workings of the mind of your average brexit supporter
(Quite apt that the thread then goes on to have to consider Jeff's contipation and second hand curry smell making him "gip")
You just couldn't make this up .....
Jeff has a moan about the "Government" doing something he disagrees with and claims to know better concerning adiction and opiates.
An experienced and qualified doctor confirms that opiate pain killers do, indeed, create problems.
Said doctor then explains why there is no panacea for pain management.
Jeff ignores this and continues his rant with "Pain management? ... it's a fekkin joke"
This, ladies and gentlemen, is yet another insight into the workings of the mind of your average brexit supporter
(Quite apt that the thread then goes on to have to consider Jeff's contipation and second hand curry smell making him "gip")
You just couldn't make this up .....
25 September 2017, 12:57 PM
#21
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So In summary.
Jeff has a moan about the "Government" doing something he disagrees with and claims to know better concerning adiction and opiates.
An experienced and qualified doctor confirms that opiate pain killers do, indeed, create problems.
Said doctor then explains why there is no panacea for pain management.
Jeff ignores this and continues his rant with "Pain management? ... it's a fekkin joke"
This, ladies and gentlemen, is yet another insight into the workings of the mind of your average brexit supporter
(Quite apt that the thread then goes on to have to consider Jeff's contipation and second hand curry smell making him "gip")
You just couldn't make this up .....
Jeff has a moan about the "Government" doing something he disagrees with and claims to know better concerning adiction and opiates.
An experienced and qualified doctor confirms that opiate pain killers do, indeed, create problems.
Said doctor then explains why there is no panacea for pain management.
Jeff ignores this and continues his rant with "Pain management? ... it's a fekkin joke"
This, ladies and gentlemen, is yet another insight into the workings of the mind of your average brexit supporter
(Quite apt that the thread then goes on to have to consider Jeff's contipation and second hand curry smell making him "gip")
You just couldn't make this up .....
Agree!
25 September 2017, 05:34 PM
#22
What long term pain have YOU had to control? Do you still have it? How long now?
If I can interject at this point:
Myself: slipped cevical disc at the end of 2008, it was pressing on my spinal cord as well as the brachial nerve. By the time they operated to remove the disc and fit a titanium cage, (June 2009), the damage to the brachial nerve was done. I have two fingers on my left hand I can no longer feel, and suffer pains down my arm, and in my neck and shoulder every day, all day.
I am slowly but surely seeing my left hand wither into a claw, and slowly but surely losing the use of it. Great eh? Does THAT make you laugh too? Because it leaves me lying awake at night and fearing.... The damaged brachial nerve will never regenerate..........This, ladies and gentlemen, is yet another insight into the workings of the mind of your average brexit supporter
(Quite apt that the thread then goes on to have to consider Jeff's contipation and second hand curry smell making him "gip")
You just couldn't make this up .....
(Quite apt that the thread then goes on to have to consider Jeff's contipation and second hand curry smell making him "gip")
You just couldn't make this up .....
I'm sorry to say it show you in a poorer light that that in which it shows me.
Last edited by alcazar; 25 September 2017 at 05:36 PM.
26 September 2017, 12:11 AM
#26
Pain management, how about last month when i dislocated my knee i put it back in myself, because 2 year ago i waited 5 hours for an ambulance too hospital for it to be put back under morphine. This time i was discharged and a week later it it dislocated again in my sleep and when i got back to hospital they said looking at my x-ray from last week they had discarged me with it still dislocated and not told me. Turns out also they lost my referal so still had no phisio or after care 6 weeks later NHS aint it great sometimes, been off my feet and work and im gutted, also carnt drive yet again ahhh. This is about the 30th time ive dislocated my knee since i was 15 and im 32 now and i can not convince anyone to get a scan done on it even though over half of my life has beem spent on crutches amd in pain im on tramdol and naproxen and it helps a bit but i would rarther my knee was looked at.
Last edited by Croney; 26 September 2017 at 12:22 AM.
26 September 2017, 10:42 AM
#27
Scooby Regular
Wrong on the first assertion. What I claim to know is that IT WORKED FOR ME AND BETTER THAN PARACETAMOL! And this was echoes by hundreds of thousands of pain sufferers, and thousand and thousands of GP's, consultants, pain specialists etc etc
EXACTLY. And the opiate that was in Co-Proxamol is so mild you'd need more than the fatal dose to get addicted. Not so, those now on offer. Add to that, the ability most users of high-dose oipates have to "sleep for Britain"....I've been there. it's like walking round in a daze. How can anyone function, is beyond me.
Again, EXACTLY. So when you find something THAT WORKS, you stick to it, you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Let me ask you a question, if I may, since I have noted your obvious amusement at this thread?
What long term pain have YOU had to control? Do you still have it? How long now?
If I can interject at this point:
Myself: slipped cevical disc at the end of 2008, it was pressing on my spinal cord as well as the brachial nerve. By the time they operated to remove the disc and fit a titanium cage, (June 2009), the damage to the brachial nerve was done. I have two fingers on my left hand I can no longer feel, and suffer pains down my arm, and in my neck and shoulder every day, all day. I am slowly but surely seeing my left hand wither into a claw, and slowly but surely losing the use of it. Great eh? Does THAT make you laugh too? Because it leaves me lying awake at night and fearing.... The damaged brachial nerve will never regenerate..........
I'm glad it amuses you. I'm glad for you that you have found another way of bringing Brexit into a thread and once again, somehow made out that those who voted leave are somehow not quite right. Well done you
I'm sorry to say it show you in a poorer light that that in which it shows me.
EXACTLY. And the opiate that was in Co-Proxamol is so mild you'd need more than the fatal dose to get addicted. Not so, those now on offer. Add to that, the ability most users of high-dose oipates have to "sleep for Britain"....I've been there. it's like walking round in a daze. How can anyone function, is beyond me.
Again, EXACTLY. So when you find something THAT WORKS, you stick to it, you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Let me ask you a question, if I may, since I have noted your obvious amusement at this thread?
What long term pain have YOU had to control? Do you still have it? How long now?
If I can interject at this point:
Myself: slipped cevical disc at the end of 2008, it was pressing on my spinal cord as well as the brachial nerve. By the time they operated to remove the disc and fit a titanium cage, (June 2009), the damage to the brachial nerve was done. I have two fingers on my left hand I can no longer feel, and suffer pains down my arm, and in my neck and shoulder every day, all day.
I am slowly but surely seeing my left hand wither into a claw, and slowly but surely losing the use of it. Great eh? Does THAT make you laugh too? Because it leaves me lying awake at night and fearing.... The damaged brachial nerve will never regenerate..........I'm glad it amuses you. I'm glad for you that you have found another way of bringing Brexit into a thread and once again, somehow made out that those who voted leave are somehow not quite right. Well done you
I'm sorry to say it show you in a poorer light that that in which it shows me.
Mate - you're not the only one in pain, with problems or whatever. Life can be **** sometimes. Suck it up and move on.
26 September 2017, 11:50 AM
#29
Scooby Regular
On a serious note Would cannabis not help and be better than these hardcore painkillers 
Its much better than taking tremedol that messes with your head even worse than cannabis so a freind tells me...
Its much better than taking tremedol that messes with your head even worse than cannabis so a freind tells me...
26 September 2017, 03:25 PM
#30
If nothing else it may well make him a happy bunny... which would be nice.
Personally I think he just enjoys wallowing in misery... there are aspects of theological medicine that suggests your mental attitude leads to illness... I'd be inclined to agree...
All that p!$$ and bile can't be good for you... Positive mental attitude and all that.
Personally I think he just enjoys wallowing in misery... there are aspects of theological medicine that suggests your mental attitude leads to illness... I'd be inclined to agree...
All that p!$$ and bile can't be good for you... Positive mental attitude and all that.