So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.
08 September 2017, 10:17 AM
#1471
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08 September 2017, 10:23 AM
#1472
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Certainly completely curving up government
just imagine the quantity stuff that's not going to get done in preference to squabbling over what is essentially a very small percentage populations misplaced/unattainable dream
tragic
together with the opportune excuse for tonnes and tonnes an tonnes of Extra sordid political manoeuvring
just imagine the quantity stuff that's not going to get done in preference to squabbling over what is essentially a very small percentage populations misplaced/unattainable dream
tragic
together with the opportune excuse for tonnes and tonnes an tonnes of Extra sordid political manoeuvring
Last edited by dpb; 08 September 2017 at 11:18 AM.
08 September 2017, 10:53 AM
#1474
I'll put this out there...,
As pro EU, we should be in the Euro. Indeed it is hindering bilateral trade between the UK and the EU.
As retaining our own currency is at odds with the agreed EU ideology (Maastricht). We retained the GBP, not because the public wanted it (we were never given a democratic choice...but the result would likely have been the same as Brexit).
What kept us out the Euro is the clauses in the "5 test" opt-out. Of which favours our financial sector, as it was in their best interest.
Indeed, having our cake and eating it. A situation that is being deplored on here. To be frank I'm amazed the UK got away with it for so long without a sanction or penalty.
Who supports dumping the British Pound? Doesn't matter much now it's almost 1:1 now.
As pro EU, we should be in the Euro. Indeed it is hindering bilateral trade between the UK and the EU.
As retaining our own currency is at odds with the agreed EU ideology (Maastricht). We retained the GBP, not because the public wanted it (we were never given a democratic choice...but the result would likely have been the same as Brexit).
What kept us out the Euro is the clauses in the "5 test" opt-out. Of which favours our financial sector, as it was in their best interest.
Indeed, having our cake and eating it. A situation that is being deplored on here. To be frank I'm amazed the UK got away with it for so long without a sanction or penalty.
Who supports dumping the British Pound? Doesn't matter much now it's almost 1:1 now.
08 September 2017, 12:16 PM
#1476
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The stupid things with this entire discussion is that if it was the other way round, i'd be fairly certain the Brexit mob wouldn't let it drop. They'd be constantly blaming everything on the EU and trying to get it reversed.
08 September 2017, 12:29 PM
#1477
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I'll put this out there...,
As pro EU, we should be in the Euro. Indeed it is hindering bilateral trade between the UK and the EU.
As retaining our own currency is at odds with the agreed EU ideology (Maastricht). We retained the GBP, not because the public wanted it (we were never given a democratic choice...but the result would likely have been the same as Brexit).
What kept us out the Euro is the clauses in the "5 test" opt-out. Of which favours our financial sector, as it was in their best interest.
Indeed, having our cake and eating it. A situation that is being deplored on here. To be frank I'm amazed the UK got away with it for so long without a sanction or penalty.
Who supports dumping the British Pound? Doesn't matter much now it's almost 1:1 now.
As pro EU, we should be in the Euro. Indeed it is hindering bilateral trade between the UK and the EU.
As retaining our own currency is at odds with the agreed EU ideology (Maastricht). We retained the GBP, not because the public wanted it (we were never given a democratic choice...but the result would likely have been the same as Brexit).
What kept us out the Euro is the clauses in the "5 test" opt-out. Of which favours our financial sector, as it was in their best interest.
Indeed, having our cake and eating it. A situation that is being deplored on here. To be frank I'm amazed the UK got away with it for so long without a sanction or penalty.
Who supports dumping the British Pound? Doesn't matter much now it's almost 1:1 now.
As for joining the Euro, it's ironic that voting to leave the Union has ushered in parity which ticks one of the boxes that proved so elusive. It's not going to happen though, not in the medium term, so it's kind of academic.
We had our own currency and all of the benefits of membership. It's nothing short of perverse that said conspirators think that in losing this they've 'won'.
Last edited by JTaylor; 08 September 2017 at 12:32 PM.
08 September 2017, 01:03 PM
#1478
Scooby Regular
We had the best deal. We were gorging on the finest sweet-baked dessert whilst miraculously retaining the same portion. Somehow democracy, hubris, myopia, nationalism and their friends conspired to take said miracle drizzle cake and throw it in the bin.
As for joining the Euro, it's ironic that voting to leave the Union has ushered in parity which ticks one of the boxes that proved so elusive. It's not going to happen though, not in the medium term, so it's kind of academic.
We had our own currency and all of the benefits of membership. It's nothing short of perverse that said conspirators think that in losing this they've 'won'.
As for joining the Euro, it's ironic that voting to leave the Union has ushered in parity which ticks one of the boxes that proved so elusive. It's not going to happen though, not in the medium term, so it's kind of academic.
We had our own currency and all of the benefits of membership. It's nothing short of perverse that said conspirators think that in losing this they've 'won'.
where you are in a bar/club and its great
fantastic music, friendly, great vibe, good-looking women/men
and there is always that tosser in the group who is not satisfied and wants to "move on"
to this mythical club down the road - "that's loads better", much better than the one you in
you ask him why/how
"IT JUST IS OK"
and he manages to persuade the weak and gullible - and before you know it you are trooping down the road to the inevitable overpriced sh1thole
everyone standing around looking miserable
yet the tosser tries to convince everyone "ITS GREAT"
but by the time people have the guts to call him out on the bullsh!tter he is - the original club is closed
so you all go home for a lonely w4nk in bed (the only consolation is that it did not rain!!)
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 08 September 2017 at 01:06 PM.
08 September 2017, 01:09 PM
#1479
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yes, its like those lads night out
where you are in a bar/club and its great
fantastic music, friendly, great vibe, good-looking women/men
and there is always that tosser in the group who is not satisfied and wants to "move on"
to this mythical club down the road - "that's loads better", much better than the one you in
you ask him why/how
"IT JUST IS OK"
and he manages to persuade the weak and gullible - and before you know it you are trooping down the road to the inevitable overpriced sh1thole
everyone standing around looking miserable
yet the tosser tries to convince everyone "ITS GREAT"
but by the time people have the guts to call him out on the bullsh!tter he is - the original club is closed
so you all go home for a lonely w4nk in bed (the only consolation is that it did not rain!!)
where you are in a bar/club and its great
fantastic music, friendly, great vibe, good-looking women/men
and there is always that tosser in the group who is not satisfied and wants to "move on"
to this mythical club down the road - "that's loads better", much better than the one you in
you ask him why/how
"IT JUST IS OK"
and he manages to persuade the weak and gullible - and before you know it you are trooping down the road to the inevitable overpriced sh1thole
everyone standing around looking miserable
yet the tosser tries to convince everyone "ITS GREAT"
but by the time people have the guts to call him out on the bullsh!tter he is - the original club is closed
so you all go home for a lonely w4nk in bed (the only consolation is that it did not rain!!)
08 September 2017, 01:21 PM
#1481
Scooby Senior
I'll put this out there...,
As pro EU, we should be in the Euro. Indeed it is hindering bilateral trade between the UK and the EU.
As retaining our own currency is at odds with the agreed EU ideology (Maastricht). We retained the GBP, not because the public wanted it (we were never given a democratic choice...but the result would likely have been the same as Brexit).
What kept us out the Euro is the clauses in the "5 test" opt-out. Of which favours our financial sector, as it was in their best interest.
Indeed, having our cake and eating it. A situation that is being deplored on here. To be frank I'm amazed the UK got away with it for so long without a sanction or penalty.
Who supports dumping the British Pound? Doesn't matter much now it's almost 1:1 now.
As pro EU, we should be in the Euro. Indeed it is hindering bilateral trade between the UK and the EU.
As retaining our own currency is at odds with the agreed EU ideology (Maastricht). We retained the GBP, not because the public wanted it (we were never given a democratic choice...but the result would likely have been the same as Brexit).
What kept us out the Euro is the clauses in the "5 test" opt-out. Of which favours our financial sector, as it was in their best interest.
Indeed, having our cake and eating it. A situation that is being deplored on here. To be frank I'm amazed the UK got away with it for so long without a sanction or penalty.
Who supports dumping the British Pound? Doesn't matter much now it's almost 1:1 now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday
Personally, as someone who has lived with the Euro daily since it came in and living close to the Austrian (Euro) and Swiss (Franc) borders and also regularly travelling elsewhere in Europe, I think its a great thing for the public and also for any businesses trading across borders. It's really apparent for me crossing into Switzerland where I need a different currency or into Austria where I can use the same currency. In the end, going to Switzerland is often just too much hassle, particularly before Switzerland joined Schengen and also had border controls. Going to Austria is way easier and we head in that direction more often even though its slightly further.
One of the best things about the Euro is the price parity. The really obvious one is for petrol! In Austria, you see straight away that the fuel price is about 20 cents cheaper per litre - there's no hiding it and you always make sure you fill up before crossing the border. In Switzerland, the fuel is also cheaper, although the number of the forecourt is bigger thanks to the different currency. You never really know what the exact price difference is and then there are often currency exchange costs to factor in, so you just don't know if its worth it to fill up in Switzerland or not?!
Again, shopping online becomes much easier if everyone is trading in the same currency. You can have a look on Amazon.fr, Amazon.es or Amazon.de and see massive price differences for the same items and you can order safely in the knowledge that there are no hidden currency charges - its not allowed to levy any additional bank charges when using your cards in other Euro countries!
For the benefit of the public, its an absolute no-brainer (even if the public don't always realise it!)
Similarly for small and medium sized local businesses, that don't have the resources (or interest) to hold multiple currencies, the Euro enables them to easily compare suppliers throughout the Euro-zone and get the best deal, signing long term supply contracts without the risk of currency fluctuations affecting their profit margins or product pricing. Similarly, businesses can monitor the prices of their competitors and can more easily react to the competition pricing.
For larger, multinational businesses, that have offices all over the world and often move money around into different currencies, the Euro is clearly of less benefit, which perhaps explains why multinationals and large corporations have dominated in the UK at the cost of small businesses - Just look at the number of independent coffee shops compared to all the Costa's or Starbucks in the UK! Sure, there are probably bigger factors to the corporate dominance in the UK, but currency certainly doesn't help the little fish like it does in the Euro zone!
The UK economy has almost certainly benefited from being outside of the Euro zone, in particularly after the 2007/8 crash. The UK has often used currency control as its primary method to stimulate the economy in hard times. The problem with this, is the main benefactors are the big corporations who often buy out or crush the competition. The little guy has little chance. In the Euro zone, they have to use other economic stimulus which have a slower effect, but are more beneficial to independent businesses than big corporations. These independents are more willing to grow organically without adverse risk or debt, while the corporations have to return shareholder value.
Should the UK have joined? Thats a really tough question! Since the Thatcher years, the UK has become more and more a corporate and debt driven economy. Without getting into the argument about the pro's and con's of the UK economic model, I would have to argue that the UK has been better off outside the Euro zone. If the UK were put the interest of the consumers and small businesses above the corporate interests, then we almost certainly should have joined! From a public opinion perspective, giving up the pound would always have been a challenge - We Brits have a very odd affinity for our currency that I've never seen so strongly with other nationalities, other than maybe the US. For many Euro countries, they often have nostalgic memories of their own currencies, but in the end, they don't really care as its only a currency and the Euro works perfectly well for them - I can only envisage Brits continually moaning about it!
08 September 2017, 01:23 PM
#1482
We had the best deal. We were gorging on the finest sweet-baked dessert whilst miraculously retaining the same portion. Somehow democracy, hubris, myopia, nationalism and their friends conspired to take said miracle drizzle cake and throw it in the bin.
As for joining the Euro, it's ironic that voting to leave the Union has ushered in parity which ticks one of the boxes that proved so elusive. It's not going to happen though, not in the medium term, so it's kind of academic.
We had our own currency and all of the benefits of membership. It's nothing short of perverse that said conspirators think that in losing this they've 'won'.
As for joining the Euro, it's ironic that voting to leave the Union has ushered in parity which ticks one of the boxes that proved so elusive. It's not going to happen though, not in the medium term, so it's kind of academic.
We had our own currency and all of the benefits of membership. It's nothing short of perverse that said conspirators think that in losing this they've 'won'.
I agree, Brexit has meant were are now more aligned to joining the Euro. But now we won't, where before it would have been forced at some point. It's a paradoxical situation, made amusing when I've talked to "In" voters that do not want Euro currency despite the inevitability had the UK voted to stay.
The five step criteria opt out was always heavily weighted towards the UK's whim, one of the few things Brown did that he deserves credit for. To a point though, the strong pound has created imbalance in UK sectors via over-massaging import culture and financial services exports. That's our fault for not keeping it in check though; Possibly via pressure/over-favouritism to certain sectors that benefit more from it (that £40+ billion financial services export to EU and US has a lot of leverage). To top it off the bunch that's going to negotiate our exit is cut from the same cloth as all those incapable of managing anything they are charged with, they still want all the cake and kiss the shoes of the sectors that benefitted from our current arrangement.
This conflict of interest simply isn't going to work; A government whose members that mostly want to stay in cannot negotiate a exit. What will result (if the current politicians have their way) is exiting the EU with "still in" hidden away in the small print. Ironically this is also what a hard line Daily-mail Tory voting stereotyped Brexiteer would oppose.
Nobody on the rest of the EU will ratify that. Unless agreements are cleverly worded to the point they are lost in translation. That's highly doubtful, we got away with it once, they won't let it happen again.
Last edited by ALi-B; 08 September 2017 at 01:28 PM.
08 September 2017, 01:27 PM
#1483
Scooby Senior
08 September 2017, 01:33 PM
#1484
yes, its like those lads night out
where you are in a bar/club and its great
fantastic music, friendly, great vibe, good-looking women/men
and there is always that tosser in the group who is not satisfied and wants to "move on"
to this mythical club down the road - "that's loads better", much better than the one you in
you ask him why/how
"IT JUST IS OK"
and he manages to persuade the weak and gullible - and before you know it you are trooping down the road to the inevitable overpriced sh1thole
everyone standing around looking miserable
yet the tosser tries to convince everyone "ITS GREAT"
but by the time people have the guts to call him out on the bullsh!tter he is - the original club is closed
so you all go home for a lonely w4nk in bed (the only consolation is that it did not rain!!)
where you are in a bar/club and its great
fantastic music, friendly, great vibe, good-looking women/men
and there is always that tosser in the group who is not satisfied and wants to "move on"
to this mythical club down the road - "that's loads better", much better than the one you in
you ask him why/how
"IT JUST IS OK"
and he manages to persuade the weak and gullible - and before you know it you are trooping down the road to the inevitable overpriced sh1thole
everyone standing around looking miserable
yet the tosser tries to convince everyone "ITS GREAT"
but by the time people have the guts to call him out on the bullsh!tter he is - the original club is closed
so you all go home for a lonely w4nk in bed (the only consolation is that it did not rain!!)
I've drawn some parallels here (apart from the w*nk)....That actually happened to me back in 1997....
.....The guy was called Tony!!
08 September 2017, 01:39 PM
#1485
Scooby Senior
I agree, Brexit has meant were are now more aligned to joining the Euro. But now we won't, where before it would have been forced at some point. It's a paradoxical situation, made amusing when I've talked to "In" voters that do not want Euro currency despite the inevitability had the UK voted to stay.
The five step criteria opt out was always heavily weighted towards the UK's whim, one of the few things Brown did that he deserves credit for. To a point though, the strong pound has created imbalance in UK sectors via over-massaging import culture and financial services exports. That's our fault for not keeping it in check though; Possibly via pressure/over-favouritism to certain sectors that benefit more from it (that £40+ billion financial services export to EU and US has a lot of leverage). To top it off the bunch that's going to negotiate our exit is cut from the same cloth as all those incapable of managing anything they are charged with, they still want all the cake and kiss the shoes of the sectors that benefitted from our current arrangement.
This conflict of interest simply isn't going to work; A government whose members that mostly want to stay in cannot negotiate a exit. What will result (if the current politicians have their way) is exiting the EU with "still in" hidden away in the small print. Ironically this is also what a hard line Daily-mail Tory voting stereotyped Brexiteer would oppose.
Nobody on the rest of the EU will ratify that. Unless agreements are cleverly worded to the point they are lost in translation. That's highly doubtful, we got away with it once, they won't let it happen again.
The five step criteria opt out was always heavily weighted towards the UK's whim, one of the few things Brown did that he deserves credit for. To a point though, the strong pound has created imbalance in UK sectors via over-massaging import culture and financial services exports. That's our fault for not keeping it in check though; Possibly via pressure/over-favouritism to certain sectors that benefit more from it (that £40+ billion financial services export to EU and US has a lot of leverage). To top it off the bunch that's going to negotiate our exit is cut from the same cloth as all those incapable of managing anything they are charged with, they still want all the cake and kiss the shoes of the sectors that benefitted from our current arrangement.
This conflict of interest simply isn't going to work; A government whose members that mostly want to stay in cannot negotiate a exit. What will result (if the current politicians have their way) is exiting the EU with "still in" hidden away in the small print. Ironically this is also what a hard line Daily-mail Tory voting stereotyped Brexiteer would oppose.
Nobody on the rest of the EU will ratify that. Unless agreements are cleverly worded to the point they are lost in translation. That's highly doubtful, we got away with it once, they won't let it happen again.
Brexit is a huge constitutional changing exercise which is going to affect the whole country for generations to come. If its going to happen, it has to be done in the right way for the good of the people, not for the good of the party, individual careers or the benefit of the elite few. What the government is currently doing is not the will of, or in the best interest of the people!
There needs to be proper cross party scrutiny on this and if there isn't a good deal to be done with Brexit, then government needs to knock it on the head before we lose the amazing deal we already have!
Its important to remember that the Conservatives are a minority government propped up by a questionable deal with the DUP. Its a coalition in all but name and a very weak one at that! The public did not vote for the Conservatives to negotiate Brexit!
08 September 2017, 02:04 PM
#1486
Scooby Regular
08 September 2017, 02:28 PM
#1487
Trying to get it reversed? Nope. We were told government would stand by WHATEVER decision was made....what part of that do you lot NOT understand?
Let me ask you a question...all of you remainers....
How much time did YOU spend trying to sway people to your views before the vote? because i know loads on the Brexit side did just that, myself included, yet the remainers seemed smug and complacent. And did/said little, except for trying to scare people who were already angry enough. Who knows...maybe your stance helped us vote to go....LOL
08 September 2017, 03:02 PM
#1489
I think if you look at the election result, I think its pretty clear that the will of the people is that Brexit should be a cross-party negotiation and not a minority government doing everything in secret and behind closed doors in their own interests or the interests of their big business friends!
Brexit is a huge constitutional changing exercise which is going to affect the whole country for generations to come. If its going to happen, it has to be done in the right way for the good of the people, not for the good of the party, individual careers or the benefit of the elite few. What the government is currently doing is not the will of, or in the best interest of the people!
There needs to be proper cross party scrutiny on this and if there isn't a good deal to be done with Brexit, then government needs to knock it on the head before we lose the amazing deal we already have!
Its important to remember that the Conservatives are a minority government propped up by a questionable deal with the DUP. Its a coalition in all but name and a very weak one at that! The public did not vote for the Conservatives to negotiate Brexit!
Brexit is a huge constitutional changing exercise which is going to affect the whole country for generations to come. If its going to happen, it has to be done in the right way for the good of the people, not for the good of the party, individual careers or the benefit of the elite few. What the government is currently doing is not the will of, or in the best interest of the people!
There needs to be proper cross party scrutiny on this and if there isn't a good deal to be done with Brexit, then government needs to knock it on the head before we lose the amazing deal we already have!
Its important to remember that the Conservatives are a minority government propped up by a questionable deal with the DUP. Its a coalition in all but name and a very weak one at that! The public did not vote for the Conservatives to negotiate Brexit!
Man of the people, indeed. **** more like.
08 September 2017, 03:03 PM
#1490
Scooby Senior
Yep, if you don't want to accept blame, then you just blame the EU, everything is the EU's fault we accept no responsibility for anything! Now where's my Airfix model kit of a Spitfire, I need to sniff some more glue!
Let me ask you a question...all of you remainers....
How much time did YOU spend trying to sway people to your views before the vote? because i know loads on the Brexit side did just that, myself included, yet the remainers seemed smug and complacent. And did/said little, except for trying to scare people who were already angry enough. Who knows...maybe your stance helped us vote to go....LOL
How much time did YOU spend trying to sway people to your views before the vote? because i know loads on the Brexit side did just that, myself included, yet the remainers seemed smug and complacent. And did/said little, except for trying to scare people who were already angry enough. Who knows...maybe your stance helped us vote to go....LOL
08 September 2017, 03:50 PM
#1491
Scooby Regular
Well, I for one was very active, as were many others on here! But, as with the result of the Brexit vote, the Trump election or the accession of Adolf Hitler to Reichskanzler, its much easier to win a vote with populist politics playing to the fears and anger of the public, particularly when you have the backing (or control) of the main stream media!
but in the end it was pointless
people simply believed the "cake and eat it" nonsense and the "they need us more than we need them and anyway BMW will make sure we get a good deal" claptrap
they genuinely believed £350 for the NHS - you simply can't combat that ignorance and gullibility
Below is Andrew Tyrie showing Dominic Cummings a vote leave leaflet
it clearly says
"lets give our NHS the £350 Million the EU take every week"
and they still deny it - you simply can't get thru to them
you showed them that the free movement of peoples directive was based on work and did not give EU citizens automatic rights to welfare or healthcare
you cut and pasted the references, embedded links etc
you asked them to explain why Germany and other EU countries have better trade balances with the rest of the world the the UK - despite being in the EU)
they could never answer you (the simple fact is they make stuff the rest of the world wants to buy - and we don't, nothing to do with the EU)
you may as well have been writing in Klingon
and now they blame the EU and the remain campaign for not sucking their ***** hard enough - go figure!!!
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 08 September 2017 at 09:43 PM.
09 September 2017, 03:30 PM
#1495
Reading more hodgy's post, they're becoming more and more abusive
I suspect he's becoming a little tetchy at not making any progress with his favourite leave EU supporters
https://goo.gl/images/mXWrNY
I suspect he's becoming a little tetchy at not making any progress with his favourite leave EU supporters
https://goo.gl/images/mXWrNY
That stance never works...That's why project fear gained the reaction that it deserved.
Project dumbass results in similar, hence Trump winning.
09 September 2017, 10:19 PM
#1496
Enjoying LNotP for another year.
I'm guessing, however, such a patriotic, self-indulgent event must be like veritable Kryptonite to this thread's resident, traitorous Europhiles/Anglophobes...
I'm guessing, however, such a patriotic, self-indulgent event must be like veritable Kryptonite to this thread's resident, traitorous Europhiles/Anglophobes...
Last edited by joz8968; 09 September 2017 at 10:21 PM.
09 September 2017, 10:21 PM
#1497
Scooby Senior
http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/anti-br...edium=referral
The public uprising has begun! 50,000 people is a pretty huge protest against anything, let alone something that "most of the country now accept"!
Just watching last night of the proms, looks like it could be the official after party; there's nearly as many EU flags as the Union flag :P
The public uprising has begun! 50,000 people is a pretty huge protest against anything, let alone something that "most of the country now accept"!
Just watching last night of the proms, looks like it could be the official after party; there's nearly as many EU flags as the Union flag :P
09 September 2017, 10:36 PM
#1499
Scooby Senior
Not at all! Being pro-European doesn't mean that your anti British! I'm a proud Brit that just happens to think that being in the EU is in the best interest of Britain. The BBC proms are a fantastic cultural event that shows the best of Britain - unlike the xenophobic brexiteers that show the worst of Britain!
09 September 2017, 10:47 PM
#1500
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Not at all! Being pro-European doesn't mean that your anti British! I'm a proud Brit that just happens to think that being in the EU is in the best interest of Britain. The BBC proms are a fantastic cultural event that shows the best of Britain - unlike the xenophobic brexiteers that show the worst of Britain!