Tidgy

So BBC showed the following program,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...shot-down-mh17

Anyone else watch it? thoughts?

My take on it,

Despite russia seeming to do everything they can to blame anyone but them or their allies it seems pretty obvious what happened,

Buk missile launcher being control by pro russian forces shot MH17 down thinking it was a Antanov transport plane.

The launcher was tracked via social media to within a few miles of the launch site, last video shows it headed in the direction. Lso the laucnhy site was visited after and a big burn mark consistant with a BUK launch was filmed.

Web site mentioned in the program is here, https://www.bellingcat.com/

some interesting reading/viewing. What i dont get is why russia keeps trying to cover it up with fake imagery and so on.

Sad state of affairs has to be said

Martin2005

Yes I watched it, it was very good and pretty clear on where the blame lies.

Where's F1, he was a bit of a conspiritard on this one wasn't he?

LSherratt

iTrader: (1)

Watched it too, very interesting. The evidence is damning, it had to be Russia. I thought it was a well presented program.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

No surprise the Russians don't want that 'achievement' hung around their necks though.
"The reason the sun never sets on the Empire is that God does not trust the British in the dark." A great quote when the black box was controversially handed to Britain for analysis.

Peedee

iTrader: (4)

I watched it, thought it was a good documentary and showed that it was pretty obvious who was responsible. The old ex CIA guy was a bit away-with-the-fairies though imo.

SmurfyBhoy

Shocking news :O

A BBC programme in which Russia is the bad guy..... really ?

Whenever you read anything or watch anything ask "Cui Bono" Who profits ?

Do you think for a minute any programme showing our own government or allies to be at fault would ever be broadcast on the BBC ?

Corruption has no nationality !!

Read the other side of the Tale on RT, I bet somewhere in the middle lies the truth....

Martin2005

RT are Putin propagandists, so you wont find much in the way of truth on there, especially on this particular subject

SmurfyBhoy

Yes, no doubt about the above,

But is BBC any different ?

Always going to be one sided argument depending what channel you tune into.

hodgy0_2

it is pretty clear that Russian backed rebels shot down MH17 maybe it is debateable what active involvement Russia had

I think where Putin / Russia has a (geo-political) point is that when the soviet union and the Eastern Bloc collapsed in the 90's and early 00's

there was an tacit agreement that the West would NOT actively solicit the former Soviet states like the Ukraine to join the wider Europe and NATO

In Putin's view this agreement was not kept - and the Ukraine looking to join NATO was the final straw

hence the current conflict

hodgy0_2

YES

the BBC is not perfect (nothing actually IS so a false dichotomy)

it is much better the RT and most media outlets

SmurfyBhoy

Tell that to 1million dead from iraq.
Tell that to the victims of Jimmie Saville

You wont hear the BBC mention illegal wars.
And don't try tell me they never knew what Sir Jimmie was uptoo !!!


Anyone who believes a word that comes out the flashing box or the paper they buy needs thier head checked.

Yet immigrants and benefit cheats are the cause of all the worlds problems.

Best thing to come out of the bbc was using Fleetwood Mac's The Chain as the F1 tune hahahaha.

Also eastenders .....

SmurfyBhoy

Again. Ask who benefits ?

Not Russia, not those rebels.

Yea lets shoot down a passenger airline. That will make us popular.

Shame for all the families of those involved.

Martin2005

It wasn't a 'one sided argument' the programmed explored all the theories, and looked at the evidence that supported them

Martin2005

It was never claimed that the rebels deliberately targeted a civil airliner. The evidence clearly shows that they believed it was a Ukrainian military transport.

Dr Hu

Yes - I saw it - that CIA bloke was

Seems it was just a massive **** up by the troops on the ground TBH - can't really blame Putin himself, it was a soldier error.

The BUK missile launch radar locked onto a target, the soldier thought it was an Antonov and he pressed the button.

I think the biggest question (fault?) was why the airspace hadn't been closed down to commercial flights - as many operators had already chosen not to cross that airspace off their own bat....

Very, very sad for all involved.

EddScott

I went with a group to Chernobyl and booked my ticket the Friday before MH17 was shot down. Had me worried for a bit but Ukraine is huge.

It's a shame really for Ukraine. Having spoken with many Ukrainians they want to be part of Europe - at least the young do. They've seen the benefits in other Eastern European countries. One guy referred to USSR as the occupation of Ukraine. I've had at least one person tell me off for saying thank you in Russian and not Ukrainian.

Sadly, they are still a little like Russians in that they don't like to lose face. If they'd turned round and said fine have Donesk and Chrimea and annex that area and we'll toddle off over to the EU (or at least build stronger ties) but they won't because it makes them look weak.

When USSR collapsed, the Ukraine was the 3rd largest nuclear power.

jazzyjembreaze

iTrader: (11)

The young lad from my village perished on that plane along with his uncle I think , they were of to watch the "toon" play ..NUFC held a tribute & silence a few games after ...
The plane was shot down over Ukraine air space not Russian , I don't know the full facts but I'd think it more probable the Ukraine lot shot it down using soviet weapons mistaking it for either a Tupolev or Antonev ...

hodgy0_2

yes, that's interesting Edd

no doubt the young wanted to be part of Europe more than the elderly ( I suspect that is the same in the UK tbh)


I think the West/NATO got a bit "punch drunk" after the fall of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc

they broke initial promises and thought they could move Europe/NATO right up to the suburbs of Moscow

Russia played the old "dope on a rope" trick whilst they were rebuilding their power (helped by the boom in natural gas / Oil / Steel in the mid 00's

They where never going to allow it

it is easy to forget that throughout the 90,s and at the turn of the century Russia was a basket case both economically and militarily

it came to its zenith with the sinking of the Kursk submarine

but Putin rebuilt there status as a world power (which explains his popularity) and has outplayed the West / NATO ever since (in Geo Politics)

Martin2005

Watch the programme then you might rethink

hodgy0_2

err I think you ought check my posting history on Iraq, immigration and benefit cheats

hodgy0_2

did you notice how the conspiracy theories chopped and changed

a ground attack aircraft
a bomb
1 jet
then 2 jets
the a Ukraine BUK
Daleks

all with dodgy to zero evidence

and then the theory with the majority of evidence

the one that is explained by all the evidence is the BUK from rebel held areas

and still people want to believe!!!!! - madness