Turbohot

That certainly is a disturbing one, Matt.

My father in-law shot his dog dead because he bit my sister in-law's finger while she was messing about with him. I don't think he felt any remorse, but the rest of the family was left traumatised with the dog's demise.

I know of some stories like yours, Ditch. That's when your own pet turns against you, and you may have to shoot him down. It's sad, but that's the only thing you can do sometimes.

Even some fluffy cats can be quite tyrant types. I posted a link here lately when a stunning looking Himalayan fat cat kept his slaves hostage. He had already scratched their new baby. They had to call police on him, and get him shoved back in the rescue place, where they got him from.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

TBH I have no idea what happened one moment he was fine, then the next he was like a wild animal, I was right there watching and saw everything, my son was sat on a plastic mystery machine toy bus, as the dog went for him he fell, I thought the dog had bitten his face and pretty much instantly had it by the scruff of the neck, never moved so fast in my life, they were maybe 5 feet away.
Really surreal he was even having a go at me as I carried him through the kitchen to the back door, I very nearly stuck a knife in him, he was that mental, but all I wanted was to see my sons face so just threw him in the back garden.

Thankfully my son was fine apart from a red tooth mark on his cheek and a banged head from falling.

I spent a couple of days wondering what to do, spoke to the vet and dog trainer, but I couldn't get the image out of my mind (still can't) and didn't want to pass him on to someone else and live with the possibility of him attacking a child again and maybe being successful, so he had to go to dog heaven, I was with him to the end stood in the vets crying like a little boy, two things I'll never forget, and indeed keeping me awake half the night as I type this.

Strange the effect a dog can have on you.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

Nothing at all and the "episodes" happened twice in the heat of the summer after walking.

Matteeboy

Ditchy - that's a pretty decision to have to make but I reckon it was the right one. Something just obviously "snapped" in the dog's head.

When I was savaged (my parents were convinced I'd lost my right eye - I was completely covered in blood) the dog was dealt with there and then. Poor chap walking it was only about 15. I had loads of stitches and can still remember having them done!

Devildog

Chris - stop being a fud.

Some people (myself incuded) value their animals (whatever they are) extremely highly and that value has nothing to do with how "cute" they are.

Go read a book called "the Genius of Dogs" . Should help address at least part of your ignorance.

Devildog

Pimmo

Get a second opinion. If your dog is otherwise fine it could just as easily be nothing more than heat/exertion induced.

hodgy0_2

Yes a tough one - the decision would be so much clearer/easier the the dog had an actual illness/problem, like a tumour etc

As people have said maybe a second opinion, but if the dog is fine I may be inclined to wait and see

Turbohot

Oh, right! It could be just sun-stroke. I'd get second opinion, then.

I'm not quite sure about how these vets charge, you know. I have a lot of respect for them for their nature of work, but sometimes, I do wonder. I mean, if it was just two collapses in heat, how does a vet estimate a dog's electrocardiogram, chest x-ray and ultrasound etc. with, say, 72 hrs observation can cost £900. May be it does. I think a clinic stay per night is £50. So, £850 is the rest?

What I'm saying is that I don't quite get the animal treatment pricing. Sometimes it seems that they charge over the odds because they know how emotional a pet owner can get about their poorly pet, so they exploit it. I'm not saying that they do, but you know what I mean.

Any vets here to enlighten?

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

As hodgy said, if the dog had an illness, or if the vet said this is pointing to a heart issue and we're confident, I'd do it, but to be told they have no idea and this is the next thing to try .. AND they kept saying, chances are we'll find nothing.

WRXrowdy

iTrader: (2)

When you say the heat of the summer, what time of day are we talking?

You have got to remember, a dog wears a fur coat all year round. Ok, so in the summer they have a finer coat than in winter, but the only times of day you should be walking a dog during the hot summer months is early morning or late evening when it has cooled down, especially if it's a large dog with a furry coat like a gsd. You wouldn't go out for a walk wearing a fur coat in the middle of summer.

During this time of year, the jack Russell and the jr cross pointer will occasionally sit outside sunbathing, but our golden retriever will be laying out across the tiled kitchen floor because it is the coolest place that she can find.

WRXrowdy

iTrader: (2)

Turbohot, I used to be a courier and for the best part of twenty years I used to go around vetinary surgeries collecting blood, urine, stool, biopsy samples (even used to have to take dead animals for post mortem) to a laboratory for testing.

Prices are high for many reasons. A vet has to train for around seven years I believe, I am not entirely sure, but it's longer than for a human doctor, because unlike humans, animals can't talk to the vet so can't help with the diagnosis like we can when we speak to a doctor.
So, the training is going to cost a fair bit. Then the vet has to pay for their premises. They have to pay for the utilities. They have to pay for equipment, they might hire diagnostic equipment from the laboratories. They have to pay staff, receptionists, nurses. They have to pay nurse training fees. They have to pay for fuel, as many vets do call outs, insurance for vehicle, insurance for premises, I would imagine public liability insurance is quite high in an environment with animals. Then they have to pay the laboratories to examine the blood samples etc, who in turn have all their overheads, and then the laboratories have to pay the courier company to collect the bloods, who in turn have their overheads to pay for . . And so on and so forth.

Yes, vet fees are expensive, but there is a wider picture that people don't take in to account.

Turbohot

Ok.

Thanks, WRXrowdy.

Adrian F

I would seek advise on a German shepherd forum you might find there is an issue in the breed like EIC and as well it isnt unkown for dogs tooccassionally collaspe and fit so two incidents with a wide spread between at that age might just be that with no treatment required.

As to the £900 get a second or third opinon. I would spend that on my dog and in fact my elder has had way more than that spent on her in last two years as she is diabetic and needs insulin 3 times a day that isnt her fault and it isnt in my nature to duck the responsability of looking after an animal just because its ill and there is a financial cost at the end of the day to me the money is better spent on her than a new xbox or flash holiday

billythekid

Where are you in the UK?

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

Near Liverpool

billythekid

YHM (or you will in a min..)

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

I contacted the GS guy but he (although promised) didn't get back to me.

I took her on a 3 mile hike the other day and when she got to the top of the hill she threw up, made me a little nervous, but she was (ignoring me) drinking muddy water.

Took her out last night, did a 7 mile hike around the hills, she was fine, put her back on the lead at the end and she was pulling like a train.

fatscoobfella1

iTrader: (1)

How and what are you feeding her?

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

Normal dog food, once at night in a bowl.

We started on the raw food when she was a puppy but she wouldn't eat, just buried it, then we tried the Burns dry food and she wouldn't eat much of that either. For a dog she's a fussy eater, doesn't touch chocolate, but likes veg.

Friend of mine used to give his dog his left overs every meal and the poor thing had a heart attack, so we don't feed her outside her meals.

(unless she find butter, stupid dog)

r32

Sorry to hear of your problem. Pets are precious.
There are several referral centres around the County, Willows in Birmingham for instance. They have all the kit of a major hospital. Might be worth getting your vets to refer you to one of these centres. They would be able to do a full body scan.

Carnut

Go read a book on how intelligent pigs are then maybe you'll think twice before your sausage sandwich. (Assuming you're not a vegetarian)
Then maybe look into how cars reduce insect population and subsequently leaves little baby bird to starve to death.
Animals die every day so humans can have their luxurious lifestyles.

People only give a shìt about animals when it suits them, you're the ignorant one.

ps sorry off thread i know. i should add that if you take responsibility for a animal then obviously you should meet all the needs of said animal.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

That's the thing though, why would I pay for a full scan or any kind of tests unless she has an issue?

two funny turns in a year don't suggest heart issues to me.

daveyj

iTrader: (1)

My missus runs a boarding kennels and I work in the quiet season for when the Weddings drop off a bit (i.e. now). I've just shown her this thread and she says....... We'd generally recommend feeding the dog twice a day not just once. They need fuel, like us and one big meal in the evening won't cut it. Best bet is splitting it across two seperate feeds but usual amount in total. A lot of people do the once a day thing to avoid poops in the house whilst away at work. Great for carpets, not for the dogs's metabolism. Like Humans, if you don't eat early, essentially your body goes into survival mode and starts feeding on what's left in the liver before muscle, then fat reserves in the body.

It's also worth taking a travel water feed with you on decent length walks in the summer, especially for breeds with bigger coats.

Sounds like exhaustion/dehydration to me. At least by making free of charge changes (water bottle aside) you can say you've taken all steps to a vet should it happen again.

Generally vets will pick up on underlying conditions as, whilst they are fumbling in the dark compared to human Doctors, they don't have humans sending them on wild goose chases with opinions on their own ailments.......


Hope that helps in some way. Also, if you don't have it GET INSURANCE!

hodgy0_2

Also I would trust your intuition, she is your dog and you spend the most time with her

I suspect if you really believed she was in pain/distress you would act accordingly

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

I used to feed her in the morning too, but she would leave it 9/10 times and the house would stink. The food would have dried out by the time we got home.

I leave her with some biscuits .. well she shares with the cat, but she rarely touches them.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

I paid £500 when she was unwell and it didn't even cross my mind to wait and see, she was ill, this was the treatment, end of.

I probably didnt need to leave her over night, but I wanted to do the best for her, even if it cost me £150.

wrx9181

iTrader: (2)

Hi,
Looking just at what you've said in this thread to just try get the facts.
So your gsd has collapsed twice?and only on hot days.
Q1 is the dog exhausted through movement ie. Legs go
Q2 is the dog exhausted though lack of clean water.
Q3 is the dog exhausted though lack of oxygen.
Large breed dogs like gsd are not really a dog for all out hikes in hot temps over large distances without rest and recuperation.
Buy one of the many portable water kits for dogs.
If you are out in heat and the dog looks like its struggling try get the dog's feet and inner legs submerged in cold water bring temps down quickly .
Give more info I'll try help

daveyj

iTrader: (1)

Was the dog walked prior to breakfast?

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Please ignore the above - just a test from a bug report here:

Turbohot

Look, what someone did to their dog. They put his belonging in a suitcase and abandoned him tied to his leash at a railway station. I wonder what lovely Kai's issues were.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...ef=mostpopular

How sad.