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[IMPORTANT] New infraction System in place. Please read.

Old 16 November 2008, 03:00 AM
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Default [IMPORTANT] New infraction System in place. Please read.

Hello Everyone,
Having been here a few days now i have taken the time to look into the various parts of the system that seem to be getting the most complaints and requiring the most web team input and as a result i have drawn up a list of things i am going to be giving some attention. There are quite a lot of software glitches to deal with and some new Moderators to get onboard as well as more power to the existing team. Naturally the Infraction system is the one thats filled my inbox 5 times over, not to mention a good few topics as well but not only with negatives, ive had lots of plee's to keep it as well.

You may or may not be pleased to know that as part of my planned changes and upgrades I am implementing a few new systems to help the moderators do their daily moderation duties more efficiently. As part of that process I have made some alterations to the current Infraction System purely as a test to see both how well it works and importantly how well it is received by the members.

The system in place now is excellent and extremely well thought out and it does in reality only have one flaw. The user. I must admit to having witnessed some quite ridiculous infractions and bans whilst Ive been here and generally all because the average user simply doesn't have the reasoning of a good moderator. Now i know that the old Admin were very keen to avoid any "Them and us" type anti establishment mentality and should be applauded for doing so, but i personally prefer to empower a web team to deal with such issues and have devised my own way of doing this over the years that works very well (In My Opinion), so;

Starting Right Now:
Instead of trying to issue an infraction, please use the report post button at the bottom left of every users posts, the one which looks like an exclamation mark. "I"

Here is a brief outline of the way my system works:

1) Trouble occurs somewhere on the forum.

2) One or more members report it via the report post icon next to every post. This report is anonymous to ALL BUT the Web team. This ensures fair play as the reporter has to put his name to it and explain why he feels it needs reporting, but it allows him anonymity from all forum members including the troublemaker.

3) ALL of the web team (Mods and Admin) then immediately receive an e-mail about this report with a link to:

4) A topic is automatically generated about the report in a special forum that only mods/admin can access called “Report to moderator reports forum”

5) Any or all of the web team can look at the report which shows the following details:

1) The Reporters user name and a link to him.
2) The actual post contents that were reported
3) A direct Link to the post itself.
4) The reporters reason for reporting it in his own words.


6) The moderator/admin deal with it as they feel appropriate and issue warnings/advice/infractions whatever they see fit. They are of course in full view of whole web team whilst doing so which ensures fair play as we can all see exactly what they do and can discuss it openly if required.

6a) If the web team member only wishes to implement a warning they can now do so. It doesn't have to carry infraction points with my system. Warnings are options too. (They come up yellow)

7) If an infraction, a warning or a ban is deployed for the offense, a new topic is automatically generated in another web team only forum called the “Infraction / warning / ban forum” so again, all the web team can review the infractions placed at any time, this ensures fair play as a mod cant single people out or be unfair to them because he will be spotted by his colleagues.

8) If the member is unhappy with the way he is treated he can ask for review in the policies room and I can review it personally the same as we do now. (Or a moderator if I so decide)

Please remember, nothing is lost, we can revert back to the original way in minutes if required, but please give my system a fair trial.

Last edited by IanW; 16 November 2008 at 02:14 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 16 November 2008, 04:25 AM
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Something which I see which works well on other forums is reputation points, or thank-yous. Since the infraction system was implemented on here it has been (mis)used in a negative way and there is no way to judge contributors positive input. When moderators are considering any penalty I feel it would be better to have some record of the accused posters reputation. Someone whom has been of little benefit and is often disruptive could then be dealt with more severely than another whom has a history of being helpful, positive, supportive or whatever, but has maybe made an ill-judged post. Over on BriSkoda I have clocked up 46 personal thank-you's and I rarely post on there. Similarly I have 39 on AVForums, a little positive feedback on FinalGear etc and my posting on any of these is minute compared to my massive 15k+ on here. It would allow others to see those whom contribute to the community, and those whom maybe do not or perhaps even detract from it, whereas the infraction system is purely negative, only ever being used for what is effectively disciplinary action. Is it something that could be considered ?
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Old 16 November 2008, 04:27 AM
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Quick question. Does the 'troublemaker' get notified that his post has been reported and is it visiable on the forum for everyone else to see?
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Old 16 November 2008, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by corradoboy View Post
Something which I see which works well on other forums is reputation points, or thank-yous. Since the infraction system was implemented on here it has been (mis)used in a negative way and there is no way to judge contributors positive input. When moderators are considering any penalty I feel it would be better to have some record of the accused posters reputation. Someone whom has been of little benefit and is often disruptive could then be dealt with more severely than another whom has a history of being helpful, positive, supportive or whatever, but has maybe made an ill-judged post. Over on BriSkoda I have clocked up 46 personal thank-you's and I rarely post on there. Similarly I have 39 on AVForums, a little positive feedback on FinalGear etc and my posting on any of these is minute compared to my massive 15k+ on here. It would allow others to see those whom contribute to the community, and those whom maybe do not or perhaps even detract from it, whereas the infraction system is purely negative, only ever being used for what is effectively disciplinary action. Is it something that could be considered ?
My only worry on SN would be the cliquey types who would big up their comrades posts regardless and make them out to be angelic when that may not really be the case.
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Old 16 November 2008, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Boro View Post
My only worry on SN would be the cliquey types who would big up their comrades posts regardless and make them out to be angelic when that may not really be the case.
That system was on here for a while and was thoroughly abused making it worse than meaningless.

Well done on the changes Stu
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Old 16 November 2008, 07:24 AM
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Nice to see you have started implementing some good changes on the Infraction system

It may not be a perfect system and is despised by many, but it's unpopularity was down to the fact that it was being abused by the 'user' and so hopefully the edits you have made will rid us of this problem.

Last edited by SwissTony; 16 November 2008 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 16 November 2008, 01:44 PM
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Sounds like a fair system to me.
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Old 16 November 2008, 01:58 PM
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Now i know that the old Admin were very keen to avoid any "Them and us" type anti establishment mentality and should be applauded for doing so, but i personally prefer to empower a web team to deal with such issues and have devised my own way of doing this over the years that works very well
So how do the existing moderation team feel about being empowered and creating a them & us atmosphere at Scoobynet?

.... and for the record I'll try anything once, or as in the case of infraction systems several times over
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Old 16 November 2008, 02:03 PM
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RTM-ing is being encouraged, fantastic!
I like the way final decisions will be made too

But

Instead of trying to issue a refraction.......
Does that mean infraction giving abilities still persist, like before?

Apologies if I haven't understood something.

It's looking much better, no doubt.
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Old 16 November 2008, 02:12 PM
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I think it's a good step. There's no need for blatant trolling.
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Old 16 November 2008, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Turbohot View Post
RTM-ing is being encouraged, fantastic!
I like the way final decisions will be made too

But



Does that mean infraction giving abilities still persist, like before?

Apologies if I haven't understood something.

It's looking much better, no doubt.

Looks like if you click the Infraction button (red/yellow card) icon you get a "permission denied" page, so I'd say no the infraction giving abilities do not persist as before.

One suggestion on this point Stu, you may want to disable the option to give infractions in the usergroup permissions for non admin/mod users if we don't have the ability to issue them as before, as I can see it causing confusion when people click it and cannot do something they were able to do so before.

I like the idea of the warning text appearing, a visual identification to the user and the community is always a good thing.

It will be interesting to see how well the new system works compared to what we have now.

I assume the instant ban option remains unchanged and still in use for all who meet the criteria to use that option?

As for user reputation, as said by others, it was enabled for a while and was abused, be it to give positive or negative reputation. It's a shame really as it could be of use, as being here for a long time or having a large post count does not always equate to being a pillar of the community.
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Old 16 November 2008, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Boro View Post
Quick question. Does the 'troublemaker' get notified that his post has been reported and is it visiable on the forum for everyone else to see?
Not sure if the user gets a notification, but from what I've read, they will get a "Warning Received" type message under their name in yellow, much in the same way you'd see "Infraction Received" for an infraction.

I think you'd only see the new message if the web/mod team have issued a warning and it's not something that'll automatically pop up if a post of yours was reported.
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Old 16 November 2008, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Markus View Post
Looks like if you click the Infraction button (red/yellow card) icon you get a "permission denied" page, so I'd say no the infraction giving abilities do not persist as before.
Excellent!
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Old 16 November 2008, 02:48 PM
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Thank you for making some changes to the system, hopefully this will be better than what the 'old' infraction system was

Can I ask that the yellow recieved warning be toned down just a touch, as it is playing havoc with my eyes (I have requested this in Policy though)

I dont think reputation points system will ever work as intended on Scoobynet, as has been demonstrated in the past

Similar to voting polls too, as there are a high number of users with alternate accounts that can manupulate the system (like has been seen many times before) unless there is a way to block aliases from re-voting/re- repping etc

I have used the RTM function far more than the Infraction system, but as Markus has said hopefully we still have the 2 x user instant ban feature as this is invaluable for getting rid of spam posters and unwanted trolls from the Forum

Steve
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Old 16 November 2008, 04:47 PM
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Sounds a good system.

It removes the power to infract from the ordinary member and into the hands of a group, with a group view. This has to make it fairer as it has been abused, by a small minority, without mercy for years.

I fully assume and hope that the reporting member will be infracted themselves if what they are reporting on is constantly not an issue to the community and is obviously a vindictive complaint?
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Old 16 November 2008, 05:51 PM
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Stu, thanks for reviewing this contentious system. It certainly looks like a better balanced system, and less open to abuse. The fact that the power to infract is now only open to mods and admins, and that the handling of RTM's and punishments is open to review by the same team, hopefully means that things will get a little less fractious, and people will feel free to post, within the rules, without worrying that they will be picked on for whatever reason. I hope the new system is given a chance by all to be successful.

Here's to a happier Scoobynet
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Old 16 November 2008, 05:54 PM
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Begs the question as to why this wasn't done in the first place!
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Old 16 November 2008, 06:02 PM
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All sounds eminently sensible to me, let's give it a go!
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Old 16 November 2008, 06:10 PM
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I would like to see this in use first before commenting but I believe its a positive step towards being fair, but what if the offender is good friends with the mods? Does it get over ruled by other mods or is it done and dusted, with no further comments as before?

I would endorse any actions provided they are fair actions, this removes the need for unjust infractions. But it will always ask the questions as to whether the mods opinion is correct in the first place.

Is this where Stu would step in? I certainly dont want to see the old system of "what I say goes" from old Admin, but all we ask is to be fair and consistent with each member, paying or not.

What about the discussion of said offenders? Will this be public forum or behind closed doors? I am hoping the latter as this would fuel more fires.

Will infractions still remain on your record, spent or not, if they are found to be unfairly given? I cant see the point of reversing an infraction if it remains for all to see. I know with XXXXXX members it becomes an admin nightmare of housekeeping, but most people do care for their reputation.

WHat will be done regarding spammers? There has been a huge increase in these using the forums recently. Mostly its down to the users to ban these but it needs 2 of us to enforce.

Sorry for a lot of questions and for straying slightly, but I feel its better to ask than not.

Good luck Stu & the team, this change is needed and welcomed.
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Old 16 November 2008, 06:24 PM
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Sounds like a better system that should work well as long as the Moderators are a mixture of members and not all best buddies.
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Old 16 November 2008, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rbaz View Post
Sounds like a better system that should work well as long as the Moderators are a mixture of members and not all best buddies.
Exactly, thats my point too.
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Old 16 November 2008, 06:58 PM
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All I can think of to say is... well done, Admin. Good move.








I can stop mentioning about how ludicrous the old infraction system was on every other post now.
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Old 16 November 2008, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by scoobz72 View Post
but what if the offender is good friends with the mods?

I see your point. In my case anything I say will be deemed gospel, you will laugh at ALL my jokes (if found not to be then a further infraction will be issued ) and anything risque I say will instantly be classed as correct as the £5.99 I sent to the admin team will see to that



Will infractions still remain on your record

Just for the record, I think it will be nice to have a full AMESTY on infractions that means from Dec 1, everyone's infractions are wiped clean. I like your thinking


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Old 16 November 2008, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by scoobynutta555 View Post
Begs the question as to why this wasn't done in the first place!

because an ego maniac clown was in charge at the time

it sounds like a MASSIVE step in the right direction in my opinion, well done, no complaints from me
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Old 16 November 2008, 08:30 PM
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Can we have some more smilies as well please?
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Old 16 November 2008, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by StickyMicky View Post
because an ego maniac clown was in charge at the time
don't you like clowns .

To be fair to the ex-webby he was always clear about the fundamental rule about what you should do if you didn't like it (Although he did seem to relax this stance just before selling the site ).

Removing Infractions from the great un-washed will undoubtedly help the site to become vibrant again - It's just a shame that so many of the old-school regulars seems to have left.

If that was down to Infractions / Bans etc I don't know - But it's nowhere near as much "fun" in here as it was say 2 years ago.

Stu - I have another suggestion. We used to have a Forum called Current World Events - Best described as a volatile area to discuss Religion, Politics & Child Molesters and what should happen to them.

Reintroducing this forum with sufficent warnings to those easily offended could save much anguish for our more sensitive posters not getting upset with lively debate .

Good luck
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Old 16 November 2008, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Boro View Post
Quick question. Does the 'troublemaker' get notified that his post has been reported and is it visiable on the forum for everyone else to see?
No, the reporting is transparent to the reported users. Members can report with anonymity.


Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt View Post
So how do the existing moderation team feel about being empowered and creating a them & us atmosphere at Scoobynet?
They are enjoying being them.


Originally Posted by Turbohot View Post
Does that mean infraction giving abilities still persist, like before?
Apologies, that typo is the result of my fat fingers trying to type correctly when lightly tipsy at 3am. Its been corrected.

Originally Posted by Markus View Post
Looks like if you click the Infraction button (red/yellow card) icon you get a "permission denied" page, so I'd say no the infraction giving abilities do not persist as before.
Correct.


One suggestion on this point Stu, you may want to disable the option to give infractions in the usergroup permissions for non admin/mod users if we don't have the ability to issue them as before, as I can see it causing confusion when people click it and cannot do something they were able to do so before.
Looking into that.


I like the idea of the warning text appearing, a visual identification to the user and the community is always a good thing.
Agreed. Thanks.



I assume the instant ban option remains unchanged and still in use for all who meet the criteria to use that option?
Undecided at the moment. With a strong web team and the new "Captcha" system we are soon introducing it should become unnecessary.


Originally Posted by Markus View Post
Not sure if the user gets a notification, but from what I've read, they will get a "Warning Received" type message under their name in yellow, much in the same way you'd see "Infraction Received" for an infraction. I think you'd only see the new message if the web/mod team have issued a warning and it's not something that'll automatically pop up if a post of yours was reported.
100% Correct. The whole idea is that the user does NOT get any public humiliation until it is decided by the web team he is in fact in breach of site policy and has been issued either a warning or an infraction.


Originally Posted by Iwan. View Post
I fully assume and hope that the reporting member will be infracted themselves if what they are reporting on is constantly not an issue to the community and is obviously a vindictive complaint?
Yes, if repeat offenders abuse the system they will themselves be infracted for wasting web teams time.


Originally Posted by scoobz72 View Post
what if the offender is good friends with the mods? Does it get over ruled by other mods or is it done and dusted, with no further comments as before?
Overruled as member as reporting member can request to know why nothing was done. Thats if we don't spot it when reviewing at login.


But it will always ask the questions as to whether the mods opinion is correct in the first place.
An internet community can NEVER be a perfect place, all we can endeavor to do is keep it running smoothly and within set guidelines. maybe the guidelines need to be made clearer, thats also on my to do list.


Is this where Stu would step in? I certainly don't want to see the old system of "what I say goes" from old Admin, but all we ask is to be fair and consistent with each member, paying or not.
A member is a member to me, makes no odds if they have paid or not.


What about the discussion of said offenders? Will this be public forum or behind closed doors? I am hoping the latter as this would fuel more fires.
Behind closed doors, otherwise anonymity is removed. Plus, this is not big brother and the web team are not here to have their every move watched, they are here to make this place a nice place to be and they will do a great job if they have your trust and support, which we all realise will need to be earned.


Will infractions still remain on your record, spent or not, if they are found to be unfairly given? I cant see the point of reversing an infraction if it remains for all to see.
No, from now on they can be deleted by web team.


What will be done regarding spammers? There has been a huge increase in these using the forums recently. Mostly its down to the users to ban these but it needs 2 of us to enforce.
VBulletin has a new anti spam system in place that has been extremely popular and it will be implemented here on the next forum upgrade. Said upgrade has only been put back to allow me to get things in place as its a huge job on a forum with so many hacks and plugins in place. SN is highly customised.


Sorry for a lot of questions and for straying slightly, but I feel its better to ask than not.
Don't be sorry. Had i not wanted discussion i would have locked the topic.

Last edited by Stu @ Internet Brands; 16 November 2008 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 16 November 2008, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by oldsplice View Post
Can we have some more smilies as well please?
Certainly, hows tomorrow sound?
Lets stay on topic though please... someone just remind me tomorrow. lol
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Old 16 November 2008, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jasey View Post
Stu - I have another suggestion. We used to have a Forum called Current World Events - Best described as a volatile area to discuss Religion, Politics & Child Molesters and what should happen to them.

Reintroducing this forum with sufficent warnings to those easily offended could save much anguish for our more sensitive posters not getting upset with lively debate .

Good luck
An interesting suggestion and one i would like to maybe see a vote on.
It could work.
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Old 16 November 2008, 09:15 PM
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Good stuff, Stewart.

The instant ban feature is very handy though, since we all have lives away from SN, it does make it easier to remove spammed pornography from the quieter sections.
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