Illeegal HID Kits Read Here
12 October 2008, 12:08 PM
#1
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Illeegal HID Kits Read Here
May well be worth reading here before purchasing an HID kit
Department for Transport - Aftermarket HID (Xenon) headlamps
Department for Transport - Aftermarket HID (Xenon) headlamps
12 October 2008, 02:54 PM
#2
The law on HIDs is vague at best. I have had emails to and from the Department for Transport (DfT) and frankly they don't seem to know what they are talking about.
It is a grey area and the DfT when pressed are unable to give a definitive answer. At best they point to the 1989 Lighting Regs, which don't list HIDs. Therefore DfT imply they may not be legal, but cannot clarify this point when asked directly. When asked they responded "The Department for Transport is unable to interpret the regulations".
Furthermore, the reason the Regs have not been clarified is because nobody has seen fit (through common sense) to try and enforce them.
Retrofit HID kits have been about for years now and I would think that if it was an issue we would know about it by now.
The fact of the matter is that this is all academic anyhow as these regs appear not to be enforced and certainly none of our customers have had any issues. Therefore we don't see it as an issue we need to address, but mark our kits as "for off road use" anyhow - the same as high wattage halogens.
I can't speak for all HID kits on the market but I've had HIDs on my car for almost 2 years and have never had any issues of dazzling anyone or passing MOTs (the same feedback from our customers also).
Having tried various uprated halogen bulbs I can conclusively say that HIDs are the best lighting upgrade available within any given headlamp unit on the Subaru Impreza (again, backed up by customer feedback).
https://www.scoobynet.com/group-buys...mance-ltd.html
Cheers,
Bob
It is a grey area and the DfT when pressed are unable to give a definitive answer. At best they point to the 1989 Lighting Regs, which don't list HIDs. Therefore DfT imply they may not be legal, but cannot clarify this point when asked directly. When asked they responded "The Department for Transport is unable to interpret the regulations".
Furthermore, the reason the Regs have not been clarified is because nobody has seen fit (through common sense) to try and enforce them.
Retrofit HID kits have been about for years now and I would think that if it was an issue we would know about it by now.
The fact of the matter is that this is all academic anyhow as these regs appear not to be enforced and certainly none of our customers have had any issues. Therefore we don't see it as an issue we need to address, but mark our kits as "for off road use" anyhow - the same as high wattage halogens.
I can't speak for all HID kits on the market but I've had HIDs on my car for almost 2 years and have never had any issues of dazzling anyone or passing MOTs (the same feedback from our customers also).
Having tried various uprated halogen bulbs I can conclusively say that HIDs are the best lighting upgrade available within any given headlamp unit on the Subaru Impreza (again, backed up by customer feedback).
https://www.scoobynet.com/group-buys...mance-ltd.html
Cheers,
Bob
Last edited by Aztec Performance Ltd; 12 October 2008 at 03:02 PM.
12 October 2008, 03:01 PM
#3
Also, we'll go as far as to say that if you buy one of our 4300k or 6000k kits we will pay for any Fixed Penalty Notices in the highly unlikely event of getting one as a result of our HIDs.
Can't say fairer than that
I can't speak for all HID kits, but stats on our kits:
MOT Failures = ZERO
Fixed Penatly Notices = ZERO
Have sold many, many kits now.
Can't say fairer than that
I can't speak for all HID kits, but stats on our kits:
MOT Failures = ZERO
Fixed Penatly Notices = ZERO
Have sold many, many kits now.
12 October 2008, 04:19 PM
#4
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Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Seems quite clear to me this bit sums it up in 1 sentsnce .
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Seems quite clear to me this bit sums it up in 1 sentsnce .
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
12 October 2008, 04:31 PM
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Also, we'll go as far as to say that if you buy one of our 4300k or 6000k kits we will pay for any Fixed Penalty Notices in the highly unlikely event of getting one as a result of our HIDs.
Can't say fairer than that
I can't speak for all HID kits, but stats on our kits:
MOT Failures = ZERO
Fixed Penatly Notices = ZERO
Have sold many, many kits now.
Can't say fairer than that
I can't speak for all HID kits, but stats on our kits:
MOT Failures = ZERO
Fixed Penatly Notices = ZERO
Have sold many, many kits now.
That seems like a very good gesture but i always look at the bigger picture ,lets say an accident occurs and for arguaments sake a mother and her 2 children die in said accident , the driver escapes with minor injuries .In court said driver blames car coming in opposite direction had dazzled him with illegal HID lights .Who's left paying then .
But as you say you sell yours for off road use only so at least your concience is clear , this thread is about illegal HID kits
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12 October 2008, 11:23 PM
#8
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Think all this was covered in the thread just gone https://www.scoobynet.com/lighting-o...id-advice.html though to me the most interesting read was the link DazW posted Truth About Retrofit HID / Xenon Bulb Kits
Last edited by 2008scooby; 12 October 2008 at 11:26 PM.
13 October 2008, 09:41 AM
#9
That seems like a very good gesture but i always look at the bigger picture ,lets say an accident occurs and for arguaments sake a mother and her 2 children die in said accident , the driver escapes with minor injuries .In court said driver blames car coming in opposite direction had dazzled him with illegal HID lights .Who's left paying then .
But as you say you sell yours for off road use only so at least your concience is clear , this thread is about illegal HID kits
But as you say you sell yours for off road use only so at least your concience is clear , this thread is about illegal HID kits
I hope you pour as much/if not more scorn on the 'racing' threads that regularly appear in NSL (which to my knowledge i've never seen you do) ...as dangerous driving/ use of inappropriate speed is a much bigger problem & does actually result in 'real' deaths ... unlike your hypothetical scenario above about use of non E marked light bulbs!
13 October 2008, 10:06 AM
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That seems like a very good gesture but i always look at the bigger picture ,lets say an accident occurs and for arguaments sake a mother and her 2 children die in said accident , the driver escapes with minor injuries .In court said driver blames car coming in opposite direction had dazzled him with illegal HID lights .Who's left paying then .
But as you say you sell yours for off road use only so at least your concience is clear , this thread is about illegal HID kits
But as you say you sell yours for off road use only so at least your concience is clear , this thread is about illegal HID kits
i have been trying to explain this point for years but gave up due to the blatant bollocks that gets spouted about regards how the kits "might not be illegal"
this is the reason i have NEVER fitted a crappy HID kit.
it will only take 1 death, and the police will come down hard on aftermarket HID users like a ton of bricks, users will then complain to the suppliers, who will pass the buck onto somebody else.
13 October 2008, 11:19 AM
#11
There is a lot of misunderstanding with regards to this documentation.
They are "listed guidelines" and only legally apply to "Type Approved" New vehicles. The rules were introduced to stop manufacturers from cutting corners in producing xenon lights.
It acts as a "guideline" for used cars, and although it is advised to be " Illegal" to retrofit Xenon's without the usual projectors etc, it actually is not "Illegal" as it is not enforced by the law, nor by the DVLA.
This is why MOT testers will and can ONLY test the beam/spray pattern of headlights, and why so many people pass with aftermarket xenon kits.
So many people read the guidelines and take it for the law because of the "clever" wording and marketing by the DVLA, then get scared off of changing their lights to HID.
They give it away with the first sentence:
This is not the law, just their Advice.
There has not been a single person, (nor will there be according to current UK Law) that has been prosecuted solely for the purpose of retrofitting a Xenon HID conversion to a reflector headlight.
As for scatter and results, I have had a set fitted to my morettes for a long time now, and the results were excellent. The car has sailed through MOT's without issue, and never have I had any complaints of "Glare" from anyone...
Most aftermarket kits nowadays have been E Marked and therefore cannot be classed as Illegal units in this country.
The above just outlines the fact that they cannot make a "law" or regulation for used cars, however advise that aftermarket kits "should" adhere to the same criteria that manufacturers use, as in the DVLA's view:
The above underlines the fact that the only criterion that the legality of a HID kit is based upon is the beam and spray pattern.
Therefore, if a HID kit retrofitted into a reflector headlight, passes the beam and spray pattern tests within the MOT, it IS road safe AND perfectly legal to drive with.
This is also why to this day there hasn't been anyone prosecuted for using, selling, or fitting these kits.
Projector's are ideal, but not the be all and end all of Xenon lighting.
So when a remapped and modified Subaru causes a death the UK the police will come down hard and ban aftermarket tuning? And we should all really think twice about modifying our cars, they should be kept completely standard?....
It's the same ballpark, modifying a Subaru to well over 300bhp can be an extremely fatal path, and has been proven so, in the wrong hands these cars kill, however how many of us have modified are cars to a point where if a mistake is made it is very dangerous?... Alot...
You cannot condone one aspect of aftermarket tuning whilst supporting another.
They are "listed guidelines" and only legally apply to "Type Approved" New vehicles. The rules were introduced to stop manufacturers from cutting corners in producing xenon lights.
It acts as a "guideline" for used cars, and although it is advised to be " Illegal" to retrofit Xenon's without the usual projectors etc, it actually is not "Illegal" as it is not enforced by the law, nor by the DVLA.
This is why MOT testers will and can ONLY test the beam/spray pattern of headlights, and why so many people pass with aftermarket xenon kits.
So many people read the guidelines and take it for the law because of the "clever" wording and marketing by the DVLA, then get scared off of changing their lights to HID.
They give it away with the first sentence:
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits
There has not been a single person, (nor will there be according to current UK Law) that has been prosecuted solely for the purpose of retrofitting a Xenon HID conversion to a reflector headlight.
As for scatter and results, I have had a set fitted to my morettes for a long time now, and the results were excellent. The car has sailed through MOT's without issue, and never have I had any complaints of "Glare" from anyone...
Most aftermarket kits nowadays have been E Marked and therefore cannot be classed as Illegal units in this country.
However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
Therefore, if a HID kit retrofitted into a reflector headlight, passes the beam and spray pattern tests within the MOT, it IS road safe AND perfectly legal to drive with.
This is also why to this day there hasn't been anyone prosecuted for using, selling, or fitting these kits.
Projector's are ideal, but not the be all and end all of Xenon lighting.
it will only take 1 death, and the police will come down hard on aftermarket HID users like a ton of bricks, users will then complain to the suppliers, who will pass the buck onto somebody else.
It's the same ballpark, modifying a Subaru to well over 300bhp can be an extremely fatal path, and has been proven so, in the wrong hands these cars kill, however how many of us have modified are cars to a point where if a mistake is made it is very dangerous?... Alot...
You cannot condone one aspect of aftermarket tuning whilst supporting another.
13 October 2008, 04:03 PM
#12
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spireite,
I hope you pour as much/if not more scorn on the 'racing' threads that regularly appear in NSL (which to my knowledge i've never seen you do) ...as dangerous driving/ use of inappropriate speed is a much bigger problem & does actually result in 'real' deaths ... unlike your hypothetical scenario above about use of non E marked light bulbs!
I hope you pour as much/if not more scorn on the 'racing' threads that regularly appear in NSL (which to my knowledge i've never seen you do) ...as dangerous driving/ use of inappropriate speed is a much bigger problem & does actually result in 'real' deaths ... unlike your hypothetical scenario above about use of non E marked light bulbs!
Then why dont YOU start a thread about speeding
13 October 2008, 04:04 PM
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WELL PUT +1
i have been trying to explain this point for years but gave up due to the blatant bollocks that gets spouted about regards how the kits "might not be illegal"
this is the reason i have NEVER fitted a crappy HID kit.
it will only take 1 death, and the police will come down hard on aftermarket HID users like a ton of bricks, users will then complain to the suppliers, who will pass the buck onto somebody else.
i have been trying to explain this point for years but gave up due to the blatant bollocks that gets spouted about regards how the kits "might not be illegal"
this is the reason i have NEVER fitted a crappy HID kit.
it will only take 1 death, and the police will come down hard on aftermarket HID users like a ton of bricks, users will then complain to the suppliers, who will pass the buck onto somebody else.
Blinded by the light springs to mind Mickey
13 October 2008, 07:43 PM
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R4LLY I am not positive where you are getting this from but you are very wrong. Have a read of what I posted in the other post or more importantly read the actual legislation I refer to in it as you appear to have got it all very muddled up. Firstly it is illegal and is backed by law. Very much like other safety marked parts such as seatbelts and tyres are. These apply to new and used cars. You appear to have got mixed up on this as well but I does not matter if your original headlight was a reflector or projector type but rather to do with there makings. Many new cars come legally with HID bulbs in a reflector headlight. As for E marked you appear to have missed how the system works. Again you may wish to read the other thread but in short a headlight is approved with its bulbs type. You cant swap bulb types even if the bulbs are E marked.
Last edited by 2008scooby; 13 October 2008 at 09:46 PM.
13 October 2008, 07:52 PM
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That seems like a very good gesture but i always look at the bigger picture ,lets say an accident occurs and for arguaments sake a mother and her 2 children die in said accident , the driver escapes with minor injuries .In court said driver blames car coming in opposite direction had dazzled him with illegal HID lights .Who's left paying then .
But as you say you sell yours for off road use only so at least your concience is clear , this thread is about illegal HID kits
But as you say you sell yours for off road use only so at least your concience is clear , this thread is about illegal HID kits
13 October 2008, 09:37 PM
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use of inappropriate speed is a much bigger problem & does actually result in 'real' deaths ... unlike your hypothetical scenario above about use of non E marked light bulbs!
Who mentioned speeding? 
is inappropriate speed not speeding
Who mentioned speeding?
is inappropriate speed not speeding
13 October 2008, 10:27 PM
#19
Which one of these is 'inappropriate use of speed'?
1. 30 mph outside a school @ 3.30 pm
2. 30 mph in a 30 limit, in snow & ice
3. 70 mph on a motorway in thick fog
1. 30 mph outside a school @ 3.30 pm
2. 30 mph in a 30 limit, in snow & ice
3. 70 mph on a motorway in thick fog
Last edited by DazW; 13 October 2008 at 10:45 PM. Reason: .
13 October 2008, 10:56 PM
#21
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This thread is about illegal HID kits , if you want to start a topic about inappropriate speed (speeding ) do so elsewhere ,or risk being infracted for trolling (yes i will infract you for trolling be warned )
13 October 2008, 11:04 PM
#22
The same could be said for doing 100 in a 70.......50 in a 30 and so on.....is this not ...."inappropriate use of speed .....??????
Ie speeding..........
Whats infracting.....lol...
13 October 2008, 11:39 PM
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Simile answer to you guys don’t buy them if you don’t think there safe. My brake pads say for track use only does that mean they are dangerous or unfit for the road no its just a way of covering the companies back, if aftermarket kits where classed as legal there would be a much bigger market and the light out put would keep increasing much easier to keep it in hand with only car manufactures producing these items to a standard .
i dont get why you keep posting these threads up,
i dont get why you keep posting these threads up,
13 October 2008, 11:44 PM
#24
R4LLY I am not positive where you are getting this from but you are very wrong. Have a read of what I posted in the other post or more importantly read the actual legislation I refer to in it as you appear to have got it all very muddled up. Firstly it is illegal and is backed by law. Very much like other safety marked parts such as seatbelts and tyres are. These apply to new and used cars. You appear to have got mixed up on this as well but I does not matter if your original headlight was a reflector or projector type but rather to do with there makings. Many new cars come legally with HID bulbs in a reflector headlight. As for E marked you appear to have missed how the system works. Again you may wish to read the other thread but in short a headlight is approved with its bulbs type. You cant swap bulb types even if the bulbs are E marked.
You seem to be confused by what I am saying
The E-markings can only cover Type Approved vehicles, our cars are NOT Type Approved.
The only regulation that any motorist must abide by for a car to be road legal is the MOT.
Which is what I was saying, regardless of headlights being projector or reflector, the ONLY legislation that will define a car to be ROAD LEGAL or not is the MOT. Unless the regulations made back in 1988 are incorporated into the MOT (which they are not) it is futile to argue that these kits are Illegal.
There is no way anyone can be prosecuted for this. Coming from a Law background and having colleagues specialising in the field I am not confused with the difference between regulations and the law.
The only offense which you can be prosecuted for is also something which will fail an MOT..
I.e...
De-cat exhaust, MOT FAIL = ILLEGAL (You can be prosecuted)
Small Number Plates = MOT FAIL = ILLEGAL (£30 FINE and can be prosecuted)
MIS-ALIGNED Lights = MOT FAIL = ILLEGAL (Can be Prosecuted)
Defective, NON E-Marked Tyres= MOT FAIL = ILLEGAL (CAN BE PROSECUTED)
Now as you can see the ONLY MOT criterion that would have a bearing on HID's is the alignment of the Lights.
HID's do not dazzle if they are fitted correctly, and will pass the MOT test all day long, which if they pass cannot be dazzling other drivers and thus be completely road safe.
A halogen bulb could just as easily be mis-aligned and also dazzle oncoming drivers and cause an accident.
This is another reason why the only test in place is the beam and aim pattern of the headlights.
If you still cannot understand think of it this way,
There is one test to allow a NON Type-Approved vehicle to be road legal.
What test is that?
The MOT.
If a Car passes the MOT without any issues and passes within each category, can it be non road legal in any way or form?
NO, The MOT is what conditions a car in the UK must meet in order to be legal to drive on UK Roads. If a vehicle can pass this test, it is completely 100% Road legal and cannot (unless the vehicles condition deteriorates or changes in any way) be classed as Illegal or prosecuted for being so.
So if a car with HID's can pass the MOT testing conditions is it legal to drive with them?
Yes.
Currently the only conditions which MOT testers must adhere to testing is the beam and aim pattern of the headlights (apart from normal testing procedures).
There are currently no other conditions that the headlights must meet in order to pass the MOT.Hopefully that clears it up a bit.
13 October 2008, 11:45 PM
#25
Simile answer to you guys don’t buy them if you don’t think there safe. My brake pads say for track use only does that mean they are dangerous or unfit for the road no its just a way of covering the companies back, if aftermarket kits where classed as legal there would be a much bigger market and the light out put would keep increasing much easier to keep it in hand with only car manufactures producing these items to a standard .
i dont get why you keep posting these threads up,
i dont get why you keep posting these threads up,
Spot on.
13 October 2008, 11:56 PM
#26
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Lol,
What's classic is the people who are harping on about lights being illegal, probably have a decat or exhaust system which really is Illegal and you can get prosecuted for!
Classic!
Why don't you start a thread about Illegal exhaust systems and Illegal Induction kits?...
Maybe because you probably have an exhaust system on your car?..
If you don't want them then don't buy them. There are so many hypocrites on SN nowadays...
I have a full HID system alongside with my ILLEGAL Exhaust system and decat system..
Whoops maybe I shouldn't have admitted that on a Public Forum, I might be Scotland Yards next target for driving an Illegal car!
What's classic is the people who are harping on about lights being illegal, probably have a decat or exhaust system which really is Illegal and you can get prosecuted for!
Classic!
Why don't you start a thread about Illegal exhaust systems and Illegal Induction kits?...
Maybe because you probably have an exhaust system on your car?..
If you don't want them then don't buy them. There are so many hypocrites on SN nowadays...
I have a full HID system alongside with my ILLEGAL Exhaust system and decat system..
Whoops maybe I shouldn't have admitted that on a Public Forum, I might be Scotland Yards next target for driving an Illegal car!
Last edited by Jam Performance; 14 October 2008 at 12:02 AM.
14 October 2008, 12:11 AM
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when did an after market exhaust last cause problems with other motorists ??
when did an after market filter cause problems with other motorists ?
lets try to keep things roughly related here instead of going off on one LOL
when did an after market filter cause problems with other motorists ?
lets try to keep things roughly related here instead of going off on one LOL
14 October 2008, 12:20 AM
#28
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Lol,
What's classic is the people who are harping on about lights being illegal, probably have a decat or exhaust system which really is Illegal and you can get prosecuted for!
Classic!
Why don't you start a thread about Illegal exhaust systems and Illegal Induction kits?...
Maybe because you probably have an exhaust system on your car?..
If you don't want them then don't buy them. There are so many hypocrites on SN nowadays...
I have a full HID system alongside with my ILLEGAL Exhaust system and decat system..
Whoops maybe I shouldn't have admitted that on a Public Forum, I might be Scotland Yards next target for driving an Illegal car!
What's classic is the people who are harping on about lights being illegal, probably have a decat or exhaust system which really is Illegal and you can get prosecuted for!
Classic!
Why don't you start a thread about Illegal exhaust systems and Illegal Induction kits?...
Maybe because you probably have an exhaust system on your car?..
If you don't want them then don't buy them. There are so many hypocrites on SN nowadays...
I have a full HID system alongside with my ILLEGAL Exhaust system and decat system..
Whoops maybe I shouldn't have admitted that on a Public Forum, I might be Scotland Yards next target for driving an Illegal car!
I just read this whole thread, and guess this reply is bit of a KI8LLR!
Last edited by Guv; 14 October 2008 at 12:23 AM.
14 October 2008, 12:30 AM
#29
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Yet again you are wrong on many fronts R4LLY. I must ask where are you getting this from? You will find that all modern subaru are indeed type tested. You will also find that any car this is not type tested has to pass a single vehicle approval. As for these laws back in 1988 you are talking about rta no? If you are this never gave total control to MOT, not even close. A car can pass a MOT and still be illegal to use on the road in many different ways. Just think if what you were saying is true you could use two of these as headlights on the road.
Just to note the MOT test a lot more than just beam and aim when it comes to lights.
Just to note the MOT test a lot more than just beam and aim when it comes to lights.
14 October 2008, 09:48 AM
#30
I'm willing to bet my house that ALL of the examples i've given you above have 'killed' real people ...not some flippant psuedo hypothetical scenario that you've dropped in to suit ...they have resulted in actual deaths & real loss.
Now back up your argument by finding some 'real' cases of people being dazzled to death by HID's ...in fact, i bet you wont even find people being dazzled to death by main beam or misaligned lights!
& the term 'innapropriate' rather just 'speeding' was used deliberatley ...one to double check your ignorance & also show by using a bit of 'not so clever' wording how you can manipulate someone's interpretation ...now re-read the DoT statements that are posted in this thread ...& also the 'other' HID thread you commented on.
Can you also let me know which schools you pass on your commute ...so i can make sure my kids dont go to them!
PS. Please feel free to infract away ...as you seem to have collected a fair few & must have some spare?
Last edited by DazW; 14 October 2008 at 12:53 PM. Reason: .