Ajax

Insurance

It’s interesting to note that all the de-cat owners are quiet, about the effects this has had voiding their insurance.

You can’t tell me that they have informed their insurance company’s, they have increased the power of their car by 30ish BHP, by doing an illegal modification.

I can only expect that this an expectable practice and a bit of a white lie carried out by many owners.


Ajax, paul

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

wrongity wrong there my man.

it is an acceptable practice to many, and indeed they will be in a sticky situation should (touch wood) they need to justify the matter.
those of us with the good ol' L&V are all covered though, also you can get declarations for other insurance companies to list the mods on your policy for a small (ish) fee which also menas your whiter than white.

the only wrestling I do is with my conscience over the environmental impact of my hot exhaust gasses not being catted .

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

30bhp from an exhaust might be optimistic as well

Ajax

Peanuts: I read some ware the cat only works when the engine is on idle and low revs, when it’s on full chat, it has no effect.

So you can sleep tonight knowing you are harming the environment no less than everybody else.

I did write 30ish BHP.

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How can an illegal modification be listed on your insurance mods.

Surly it’s either approved or not, and if it’s illegal the insurance company is in for it.

I understand that you can even pick up points on your licence for emissions being over the limits.

So it must be a problem!

By the way, thank you for discussing this, as I feel a lot of heads are buried in the sand over this matter.

I don’t want to be the only silly bugger with a Sports Cat and telling my insurance company.

As this would imply that it was £400.00 for a sports cat, plus remap and insurance hike just because I came clean over this matter.

Ajax, Paul

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

sorry, but it is listed on my insurance, its listed as an aftermarket sports exhaust, even named with a picture and copy of the receipt on my file.
theoretically,yes you could get points on your licence for a decat, theoretically.

my understanding is that I will be given a producer and seven days to rectify the matter.
in the meantime, if you explain that the car has been specifically mapped to a certain fuel, but unfortunately you were forced to put a lesser grade fuel in the tank, then the hofficers may be a tad more leanient.
if they are not, then I have seven days to whack a cat back on.

your right, it is chance, and those who have invested in sports cats are in the right and can sleep easy.
I still sleep easy, I have my exit strategy in place

vindaloo

Ajax,

Suspect you need to remove a "de-" from your last cat. comment.

If I read it right, I agree, once the exhaust gasses are moving fast enough they do b*gg*r all or very little.

Where's the 'quote' button gone BTW

J.

Ajax

Vindaloo: Sorry, just edited my post to read correctly, I meant Cat.
Thanks for pointing it out.

Is the quote problem down to me as well, what did I do?

Peanuts: So it’s all down to word play and deception, taking into account the low risk of getting caught in the first place.

Obviously a risk worth taking.

Who can blame people with the price of sports cat as expensive as they are.

I can’t believe it’s necessary to charge that much for them, what are they stuffed with gold wool or something.

Ajax, Paul

my94

If your car is over 10 years old(ie an 93/94STi)it's legal anyway as it will pass the MOT.So whats your point?

Tazz Kill Er

If your car can pass the emissions test with cat's that are fitted or even if they pass without one or both of them then your emissions are deamed acceptable.

The only way a "hoficer ofthe law" will know if you have no cat is to stop your car and investigate, if he does that then he may well have had another reason to stop you, ie smoke pooring from your exhaust or speeding etc..

Cats work by slowing the hot gases down and burning through a chemical reaction the pollutants contained within the gases thus rendering them "harmless", sports cats only work at slow speeds because they do not slow the gases down significantly enough to cause the chemical reaction.

Graz

Close, usually a platinum based catalyst IIRC.

Ajax

Graz: And I thought I was taking the pee, regarding gold

my94: Sometime there are plus point to owning an older car, keep it long enough and you will get free road fund licence AFAIR. LOL

So what’s stopping me de-cat?

1. Changing the zorst section at MOT time.

2. Getting caught by the road side in a check, and getting points.

3. Problems with making an insurance claim.

If I go down the de-cat route, I may still have to change later if I get caught, and that would mean a second re-map, not very lightly unless they modify speed camera to detect the de-cats.

So I suppose, as I have a rear Magnex box, I need a down pipe and centre section alternatively one will have a sports cat, probably the extra cost will be £400.00 more for the later set up

Now is that worth the risk of the three points above in the long term

I suppose it’s worth it in the short term, especially if you keep your activities a secret / deceive your insurer by calling it a sports exhaust system.

Thanks for those who have discussed so far, I am not trying to take sides or make assumptions of what’s right and wrong.

Just interested to know, the position of what is a widely made modification.

Ajax, Paul

Gutmann pug

My FULL de-cat was dealer fitted from new. So if I have a problem I know who I will be going back to.

austen_wrx

A lot of Insurers have 3 options for exhaust mods, like for like, stainless or performance exhaust. If you specify the later they then ask how much increase in power it gives; 0-10% bhp, 10-15%, ..... etc. So if you specify performance exhaust with a 10% increase (say approx 20bhp for a full decat on a wrx for example) i don't see why you are decieving or lying to your insurance company. OK, it may not pass emmisions, but why would that invalidate your insurance as long as it passed at its MOT. If you exhaust falls off after your MOT and you get stopped, you car is obviously not meeting requirements and could get a fine/points, but surely it wouldn't invalidate your insurance. These are only my thoughts, tell me if i'm wrong

ZIPPY

Jason is correct with his last point.

If you do get pulled by a roadside emmisions test unit, by law you can refuse the test on the grounds your car is running incorrectly, this then gives you 7 days to have it tested giving you enough time to re-fit a cat and avoid fines or points.

Also a FULL de-cat will give you at least 40BHP, i've seen it on ALL Bugeye and Blobeye cars with RR figures to prove.

Dont bother with a sports cat either, just go for the full de-cat,enjoy the power gains and re-fit a cat if or when needed.

Zippy

subaru swift

how much more will a blitz nur r and a de cat down pipe be on my sti v4 import insurance???.... . i think i should phone asap!.

austen_wrx

Was that with the up pipe replaced or just the downpipe and centre cat? Were these cars remapped?? I'm not questioning what you are saying, just interested.

marklemac

I'm with Natwest and have all mods declared and they are listed on the policy.

Exhaust gets listed as "Exhaust change - performance upgrade"

subaru swift

just rang tesco and wow its gone up by £170 a year!...... .

but that the 10% power one

austen_wrx

Its great isn't it, Priveledge want neary £200 for the same!! The change of wheels even though they are the same size and colour as standard put it up £180, although the "whale tail high spoiler" didn't add anything when put on with the wheels (ithink you get 2 mods for the same increase). The worse thing is the increase in x's!!!!

^OPM^

if i may ask -what was u paying before as i pay £600 on my MY01 and wondered as im with tesco how much per each say 10% of power what percentage it would make to my insurance

subaru swift

£700 now £850 or so, i said to them that i had a new blitz nur r and a de cat down pipe! what gives me about a 10% power rise!.

but god dam it sounds sexy!.... ha ha

^OPM^

unless u actually rolling road it u cant be sure of exact power increase so what happens if i change downpipe on mine-ring em up and say its a de-cat downpipe but mite have gave it another few horses but i dont know eactly how many-then what would they say i wonder-or if u r conservative on the power increase side?

subaru swift

10% of the standard 276bhp is about 303 what sounds right for a exhaust and down pipe!.

ZIPPY

Austen in reply to your question the power gains where proved with a full decat,Up, down and middle sections removed.

My old MY01 made 257BHP with a de-cat and then 292BHP with a TEK 3 re-map added, i ran the FULL hayward and Scott system, i have seen cars with mixtures of manufacturers exhausts parts make slightly more Torque than mine but quite a bit less BHP.

Zippy

austen_wrx

Nice! With down and centre replaced and new filter (what i have sitting in the garage), i think declaring a 10% increase on my new blobeye would be fine

What you got now then zippy, i always liked your silver bug

ZIPPY

Cheers Austen, i sold the Subaru in January and bought the new SAAB 9-3ss Aero.
Subaru where offering stupid trade in money £11k when SAAB offered £14.5k and i sold all the performance bits seperately and made another £1200 cash.

It was a no brainer as the values of Bugeyes was horrific.

Zippy

Keef69

Just my two penny worth on bhp. I went to Power Engineering last Saturday and ran 273 bhp & 246 lb/ft torque with a standard STI version 3, run on Optimax, no booster. Only mod was a Scoobysport back box. I then got them to fit a Magnex centre pipe £65, meaning I still have the downpipe cat and can pass MOT. Went back on the rollers, less than an hour later and got 288 bhp & 264 lbft torque. So just the centre pipe added 15 bhp and 18 lb/ft torque. I wonder how much the back box added and how much a decat down pipe would add?

Steve vRS

If you need to make a claim on your insurance and the car is inspected and found to have no cat when there should be one, it is not road legal and therefore your insurance is void. It's the same with window tints. The insurance co. will take your money but stiff you when it comes to paying out.

The only hope you have is if the insurance schedule actually says de-catted, not just performance increase or sports exhaust.

IMHO of course

Steve

richto

They are just following your instructions and are not liable for the consequences.