Which Sat-Nav?!
04 February 2002, 04:49 PM
#1
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Yo,
I've been away so long from the world of ICE that I'm now like a lost child. Just need a guiding hand so would be grateful for any help.
This is what I need:
Sat nav system
Motorised Screen
CD player/changer
TV Tuner
(maybe DVD player)
All into 1 din.
Budget £2000 - £2500.
Must be good quality, any pointers?
Cheers,
Cem
I've been away so long from the world of ICE that I'm now like a lost child. Just need a guiding hand so would be grateful for any help.
This is what I need:
Sat nav system
Motorised Screen
CD player/changer
TV Tuner
(maybe DVD player)
All into 1 din.
Budget £2000 - £2500.
Must be good quality, any pointers?
Cheers,
Cem
06 February 2002, 12:02 AM
#6
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See, this is exactly what I mean 
Everybody has by their own definition a favourite. I've contacted about 5 big car hifi dealers recently and they've all given me their own idea of what is the best option.
Surely one is better than the other? Or is it simply a matter of loyalty?
Cem
Everybody has by their own definition a favourite. I've contacted about 5 big car hifi dealers recently and they've all given me their own idea of what is the best option.
Surely one is better than the other? Or is it simply a matter of loyalty?
Cem
06 February 2002, 01:21 AM
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pioneer is newest and best.
is not touch screen but is most comprehensive map and most complex software. Is also upgradable so relatively future proof.
But, you have discussed you dont like the graphics. The alpine system is not all that but most importamtlyu for the features you wnat, most are more money than you are talking about.
Other option is one which does not have a tv screen but uses a normal headunit to display the info, such as becker.
is not touch screen but is most comprehensive map and most complex software. Is also upgradable so relatively future proof.
But, you have discussed you dont like the graphics. The alpine system is not all that but most importamtlyu for the features you wnat, most are more money than you are talking about.
Other option is one which does not have a tv screen but uses a normal headunit to display the info, such as becker.
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06 February 2002, 01:51 AM
#8
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Panasonic beats all the above hands down.
You can meet up and see my ICE install I live 2 miles from you......I know Adam.....get my No off him.....I've seen the nice new Skyline.....sort me out a quick burn and all is sweet....
I can also get trade on anything so you can have the complete set up Sat Nav, DVD 7 inch widesreen tuner ect well under £2400....TV's sh$te on all makes.
Dave.
You can meet up and see my ICE install I live 2 miles from you......I know Adam.....get my No off him.....I've seen the nice new Skyline.....sort me out a quick burn and all is sweet....
I can also get trade on anything so you can have the complete set up Sat Nav, DVD 7 inch widesreen tuner ect well under £2400....TV's sh$te on all makes.
Dave.
06 February 2002, 12:13 PM
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Dave I am sorry but you keep spouting this.
The TV does not sh1te on all other makes, have checked out the specs and it simply isnt true.
On top of that pioneer have a new screen out, and the newest most advanced sat nav. The most trusted car audio shop I know have accoutns with all the relevant companies, and haev demo'd and fitted all makes of sat nav. So far they have only been impressed by the kenwood dvd based system and the vdo dayton cd based system although it is expensive to have a disk for each country they often have little choice.
They do like the panasonic too, but to go so far as to say it ***** on all the others is just silly.
In tests it got lost as much as the alpine system and the speed it reprocesses at was less than satisfactory.
The TV does not sh1te on all other makes, have checked out the specs and it simply isnt true.
On top of that pioneer have a new screen out, and the newest most advanced sat nav. The most trusted car audio shop I know have accoutns with all the relevant companies, and haev demo'd and fitted all makes of sat nav. So far they have only been impressed by the kenwood dvd based system and the vdo dayton cd based system although it is expensive to have a disk for each country they often have little choice.
They do like the panasonic too, but to go so far as to say it ***** on all the others is just silly.
In tests it got lost as much as the alpine system and the speed it reprocesses at was less than satisfactory.
06 February 2002, 01:13 PM
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Gregh, if you wish to advertise please take out a banner ad 
(To make this less of an "in joke", see if you could possibly guess who Gregh works for. Indeed, bonus points on offer if you can guess what his job is )
(To make this less of an "in joke", see if you could possibly guess who Gregh works for. Indeed, bonus points on offer if you can guess what his job is
)
06 February 2002, 04:17 PM
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Nice idea Greg, but when I'm driving from Wokingham along the M4, it always tells me to take a 'sharp right' onto Bxxxx - between Junctions 10 and 11!! OK, maybe a shortcut, but one you could only manage in a Discovery
To be fair, its a pretty good system, though why do Compaq feel the need to charge £500 for something that's available in the US for $300 (and ask the uninitiated to cough up an extra £149 for a 128Mb CF card instead of 64Mb - I can buy 256Mb for 85 quid!!) especially when the identical Navman sleeve is only £240 (though the software isn't as good for town to town routing, you do get all of europe)
To be fair, its a pretty good system, though why do Compaq feel the need to charge £500 for something that's available in the US for $300 (and ask the uninitiated to cough up an extra £149 for a 128Mb CF card instead of 64Mb - I can buy 256Mb for 85 quid!!) especially when the identical Navman sleeve is only £240 (though the software isn't as good for town to town routing, you do get all of europe)
06 February 2002, 04:53 PM
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Chiark,
Not an advert mate, merely a consideration of a different solution to the posters origional question
Kryten,
Have you used it then? There is a software update around apparently, which:
The new release will give the iNS greater performance and improve your experience when using the system. The main improvements are:
Updated map data
Minor user interface improvement
Better handling of Storage Card 2 on 3800 series iPAQ.
An updated GPS hardware driver.
The reason Compaq charge more is 'cos it has some uniques that other software doesn't (at the moment) like speaking commands.
cheers,
greg
Not an advert mate, merely a consideration of a different solution to the posters origional question
Kryten,
Have you used it then? There is a software update around apparently, which:
The new release will give the iNS greater performance and improve your experience when using the system. The main improvements are:
Updated map data
Minor user interface improvement
Better handling of Storage Card 2 on 3800 series iPAQ.
An updated GPS hardware driver.
The reason Compaq charge more is 'cos it has some uniques that other software doesn't (at the moment) like speaking commands.
cheers,
greg
06 February 2002, 06:48 PM
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Adam I have seen the TV reception on all makes including Pioneer and the Kenwood and they are SH$TE. It doesn't matter what make/model or receiver (amplifier) you are using the picture is sh$te on the move and even worse as you go into urban built up areas. Apparently its due only to the aerial…so if it could turn in the right signal direction while travelling every things cool that’s the long and short of it I am not trying to big up Panasonic cos I've got it......money was not an issue when buying the system and if I thought Pioneer or the Kenwood makes were better I would of had them.
As for getting lost you have got to stop reading write ups in Auto Express etc as they are dictated too by the manufactor who pays them the most.....there all corrupt.
I use it everyday and never f$cks up.....if I know a quicker way due to traffic it recalculates in secs and took me all the way to Monaco during the summer in 8hrs 45mins with out one problem.
Most makes show all points of interest like petrol stations restaurants hotels but this one also gives the address with phone numbers even of petrol stations.
As for upgrades you apply for one free DVD map disc with all European countries at any time within the year of purchase. I have had mine for 6 months and no probs yet....I will wait another 2-3 months and apply for one then FREE.
And for warranty I get it trade and you take it up with the manufactor.....warranty card etc.....they can see its not stolen cos of serials so there’s no probs. You will have to take it to the service centre and show the docs and that’s it.
Adam I enjoy the friendly banter.......
Dave.
As for getting lost you have got to stop reading write ups in Auto Express etc as they are dictated too by the manufactor who pays them the most.....there all corrupt.
I use it everyday and never f$cks up.....if I know a quicker way due to traffic it recalculates in secs and took me all the way to Monaco during the summer in 8hrs 45mins with out one problem.
Most makes show all points of interest like petrol stations restaurants hotels but this one also gives the address with phone numbers even of petrol stations.
As for upgrades you apply for one free DVD map disc with all European countries at any time within the year of purchase. I have had mine for 6 months and no probs yet....I will wait another 2-3 months and apply for one then FREE.
And for warranty I get it trade and you take it up with the manufactor.....warranty card etc.....they can see its not stolen cos of serials so there’s no probs. You will have to take it to the service centre and show the docs and that’s it.
Adam I enjoy the friendly banter.......
Dave.
07 February 2002, 12:24 PM
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Haven't heard anything about a new release - might convince me to keep it. Otherwise, I'll be taking it back as the issues make it a real pain and I'm not prepared to pay top whack for something that isn't right.
>Updated map data
Will always be an issue for all systems. There's no info about updates (or European maps) that I've been able to find.
>Minor user interface improvement
Its OK as it is (apart from not being able to click a place on the map and say 'go here').
>Better handling of Storage Card 2 on 3800 series iPAQ.
You mean ANY handling of SC2! I have to take the SD card out, then load the jacket, then load the SD card so the CF is 'Storage Card' at the moment. Full UK coverage fits on a 256Mb CF with room to spare.
>An updated GPS hardware driver.
I get some errors, and occasional lockups. Plus it seems to take a while for the software to get the fix. Often 30 seconds to a minute after my Geodesy has figured out where it is.
>The reason Compaq charge more is 'cos it has some uniques that
>other software doesn't (at the moment) like speaking commands.
Hmmm, the voice prompts are useless in a car with the stereo on (a fairly quiet 5 series. Would be no use even with the stereo off in a Scoob!).
The main thing is has over the others in the UK at the moment is dynamic recalc of routes (ie when you miss a turn).
>Updated map data
Will always be an issue for all systems. There's no info about updates (or European maps) that I've been able to find.
>Minor user interface improvement
Its OK as it is (apart from not being able to click a place on the map and say 'go here').
>Better handling of Storage Card 2 on 3800 series iPAQ.
You mean ANY handling of SC2! I have to take the SD card out, then load the jacket, then load the SD card so the CF is 'Storage Card' at the moment. Full UK coverage fits on a 256Mb CF with room to spare.
>An updated GPS hardware driver.
I get some errors, and occasional lockups. Plus it seems to take a while for the software to get the fix. Often 30 seconds to a minute after my Geodesy has figured out where it is.
>The reason Compaq charge more is 'cos it has some uniques that
>other software doesn't (at the moment) like speaking commands.
Hmmm, the voice prompts are useless in a car with the stereo on (a fairly quiet 5 series. Would be no use even with the stereo off in a Scoob!).
The main thing is has over the others in the UK at the moment is dynamic recalc of routes (ie when you miss a turn).
08 February 2002, 12:53 PM
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Dave,
I have the pioneer tv moduel and dont know what you are talking about.
REception is spot on.
On the move they can deteriorate but they all do.
My aerial is an amplified alpine 4 way diversity aerial. These are no directional.
Even the non diverse bosch tv antenna I had on my old car was absoluetly fantatsic btu was a bee sting. My new one is beatifully hidden in the roof lining.
Dont go stealing my lines! It is I, who am always telling people not to read reviews in mags as they are crap.
All my opinions on this board come from first or trusted second hand knowledge.
I have a lot of friends in the car audio industry and all have told me that the industry standard is actually VDO dayton, which is why it is fitted in more factort vehicle than any other make, this is closely followed by becker, but it is less popular as it does not have a dedicated screen, only a small head unit display.
I have been reliably informed that I should avoid the clarion system at all costs, and to a lesser extent the pioneer. I dont for a seconf believe that you have tried the navigation of the new kenwood and pioneer systems which are both brand new and both dvd based with more faster powerful processing than anythign currently available.
I also dont think it is fair for you to judge a nav system based on the tv reception. I can admit to only watching tv whilst stationery and waiting for a friend, and even then, it must total two hours since I have owned the receiver.
The sat nav howebver will be a different thing. The only thing that matters to me is how it performs on the road,a nd how good the interface is.
Apparently all the software is written by two companies anyway, so they arent likely to vary that much. Except that one company Navtek has a good rep and the other etac doesnt.
I agree, a good banter is always fun, but I will never listen to the advice of a man who advocates alpine V12 almps, and worse than that, actually has them fitted in his car!
I have the pioneer tv moduel and dont know what you are talking about.
REception is spot on.
On the move they can deteriorate but they all do.
My aerial is an amplified alpine 4 way diversity aerial. These are no directional.
Even the non diverse bosch tv antenna I had on my old car was absoluetly fantatsic btu was a bee sting. My new one is beatifully hidden in the roof lining.
Dont go stealing my lines! It is I, who am always telling people not to read reviews in mags as they are crap.
All my opinions on this board come from first or trusted second hand knowledge.
I have a lot of friends in the car audio industry and all have told me that the industry standard is actually VDO dayton, which is why it is fitted in more factort vehicle than any other make, this is closely followed by becker, but it is less popular as it does not have a dedicated screen, only a small head unit display.
I have been reliably informed that I should avoid the clarion system at all costs, and to a lesser extent the pioneer. I dont for a seconf believe that you have tried the navigation of the new kenwood and pioneer systems which are both brand new and both dvd based with more faster powerful processing than anythign currently available.
I also dont think it is fair for you to judge a nav system based on the tv reception. I can admit to only watching tv whilst stationery and waiting for a friend, and even then, it must total two hours since I have owned the receiver.
The sat nav howebver will be a different thing. The only thing that matters to me is how it performs on the road,a nd how good the interface is.
Apparently all the software is written by two companies anyway, so they arent likely to vary that much. Except that one company Navtek has a good rep and the other etac doesnt.
I agree, a good banter is always fun, but I will never listen to the advice of a man who advocates alpine V12 almps, and worse than that, actually has them fitted in his car!
08 February 2002, 02:36 PM
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Adam.......don't know what thread you have been reading but,
1/I did not say that there was a directional aerial but if there was it would sort out all the receptions.
2/VDO Dayton is fitted by most manufactures because it is quite good but one of the cheapest around with an off putting interface, graphics and I THINK a CD rom based system which will be slow.
3/I know most the car audio shops in NW London and have been out with the new Pioneer and Kenwood DVD based systems. Mine which I have said is DVD was just a quick if not quicker and the graphical interface i.e. the mapping, zooming in of junctions looked so much nicer and clearer. Certainly was not faster in gathering data from disc or when asked to recalculate.
4/ WHEN have I stated that I judge a Sat Nav system buy the TV or its reception....???????..I have not got TV in my car because it's sh$te and is on all other systems. I will only have a DVD or a programme captured through my TV PVR card on my computer MPEG 2 quality of something I missed like Match Of The Day on my way to football on Sunday!!
5/ The software company which writes for my Panasonic system is Navtek.
6/ I think if you had the time to use each system for a one week period you would not agree with the people you seem to listen to and trust so much.
7/ If it’s the pioneer system you have which is the older one I think it is I am v. surprised you get a good reception.
8/ For the money I paid for my MRV 1507 retails £550 and the 404 (the 4ch 120Watt one) which goes for £400 I am more than impressed with the sound quality and the power of my 2 12 inch Rtype Subs.
Keep it up I look forward to seeing you around the area soon.
Might be buying a house on that new development near Chase Lodge football pitches.....were be neighbours!!!
D.
1/I did not say that there was a directional aerial but if there was it would sort out all the receptions.
2/VDO Dayton is fitted by most manufactures because it is quite good but one of the cheapest around with an off putting interface, graphics and I THINK a CD rom based system which will be slow.
3/I know most the car audio shops in NW London and have been out with the new Pioneer and Kenwood DVD based systems. Mine which I have said is DVD was just a quick if not quicker and the graphical interface i.e. the mapping, zooming in of junctions looked so much nicer and clearer. Certainly was not faster in gathering data from disc or when asked to recalculate.
4/ WHEN have I stated that I judge a Sat Nav system buy the TV or its reception....???????..I have not got TV in my car because it's sh$te and is on all other systems. I will only have a DVD or a programme captured through my TV PVR card on my computer MPEG 2 quality of something I missed like Match Of The Day on my way to football on Sunday!!
5/ The software company which writes for my Panasonic system is Navtek.
6/ I think if you had the time to use each system for a one week period you would not agree with the people you seem to listen to and trust so much.
7/ If it’s the pioneer system you have which is the older one I think it is I am v. surprised you get a good reception.
8/ For the money I paid for my MRV 1507 retails £550 and the 404 (the 4ch 120Watt one) which goes for £400 I am more than impressed with the sound quality and the power of my 2 12 inch Rtype Subs.
Keep it up I look forward to seeing you around the area soon.
Might be buying a house on that new development near Chase Lodge football pitches.....were be neighbours!!!
D.
08 February 2002, 04:25 PM
#19
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Good luck with the house move, funnily enough I was thinking of moving too. It is not personal, I will be staying very close by. If i go at all.
The tv tuner of the pioneer system is he same, old or new. My screen is the new screen, my sat nav is the new dvd based sat nav, and my master controller is the new one too, but not that new anymore!
The vdo is cd based, but not cheap at all, and the fact that it is cd based does not affect it speed in the slightest.
The people I trust are fleet installers up north, and have fitted over a 1000 sat nav systems, of all makes. They have only slated the clarion, and have not said bad things about any system based on navtek software.
I still dont think it was fair for you to categorically rule out everything but panasonic.
btw, the pioneer has full upgradability vaia its flash rom which in my mind gives it a distinct edge over the opposition, that and a 32 bit risc processor.
It is also the only one to offer true drivers eye view sat nav.
It also has a 3 d accelermeter and and speed sensor wire, meaning if gps is interrupted, it still knows where it is, including in the complex tunnel networks of the mountain ranges of france, austria, switzerland and italy. which is nice.
I still stand by what I have said. Alpine amps are ****, and their sound quality is even worse. sorry mate
if we weren't friends and didnt knwo eachother off the board, I would sense a fight coming on!
I will be staying very close by. If i go at all.The tv tuner of the pioneer system is he same, old or new. My screen is the new screen, my sat nav is the new dvd based sat nav, and my master controller is the new one too, but not that new anymore!
The vdo is cd based, but not cheap at all, and the fact that it is cd based does not affect it speed in the slightest.
The people I trust are fleet installers up north, and have fitted over a 1000 sat nav systems, of all makes. They have only slated the clarion, and have not said bad things about any system based on navtek software.
I still dont think it was fair for you to categorically rule out everything but panasonic.
btw, the pioneer has full upgradability vaia its flash rom which in my mind gives it a distinct edge over the opposition, that and a 32 bit risc processor.
It is also the only one to offer true drivers eye view sat nav.
It also has a 3 d accelermeter and and speed sensor wire, meaning if gps is interrupted, it still knows where it is, including in the complex tunnel networks of the mountain ranges of france, austria, switzerland and italy. which is nice.
I still stand by what I have said. Alpine amps are ****, and their sound quality is even worse. sorry mate
if we weren't friends and didnt knwo eachother off the board, I would sense a fight coming on!
08 February 2002, 08:21 PM
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DVD's at dawn
Nice little heated debate here...
Does Sat Nav really work? Do any of the systems pick up traffic information - that would be genuninely useful, a sat nav system with built in Traffic master traffic info plotted on the map - Can this be done yet??
- Jon
Nice little heated debate here...
Does Sat Nav really work? Do any of the systems pick up traffic information - that would be genuninely useful, a sat nav system with built in Traffic master traffic info plotted on the map - Can this be done yet??
- Jon
08 February 2002, 09:29 PM
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Yes, in Japan all decent Sat Nav systems are integrating into some form of traffic management. It will detect heavy traffic ahead and will recalculate a new course on the fly avoiding the jam.
08 February 2002, 09:32 PM
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Doesn't help me too much in Gloucestershire though - shame ...
I remember seeing details of the Jap Satnav on Tomorrows world years ago, I think they've been doing it properly there for years. I guess there isn't a similar system in the UK yet then?
I remember seeing details of the Jap Satnav on Tomorrows world years ago, I think they've been doing it properly there for years. I guess there isn't a similar system in the UK yet then?
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