s13silvia

Hi guys,

I recently purchased an STi Type R from Leeds and things are starting to get a little fishy.

It's not got near 280hp performance, closer to 210-220.
80-90mph in 5th takes 3 secs, 90-100 takes 8.5 secs then it wont really go past 100mph without a lot of waiting around.
There's no boost gauge fitted so I can't really see what's happening.

After checking the engine today here's what I know:

Equipment:
Def has an STi Type R gearbox (checked the code)
Has STi intercooler+red intake manifold, however I cant see any engine code on the block/heads themselves to determine if it's the STi engine or some WRX/turbo 2000 engine which has been put in.
It has a UK turbo 2000 8s ECU ?!
Its running a TD05H turbo with 70mm exhaust housing.
Its running some generic BOV which doesnt seem to be leaking
It's got an aftermarket de-cat and exhaust system.
HKS intake
DCCD etc.
The Fuji stamp shows the STI engine code but I want to check it on the block itself, where is it likely to be?

I was thinking the lack of performance could have been down to something simple like a boost leak, but with it running an 8S ECU and TD05H with what looks like a stock actuator I have no idea if the performance is down to low boosting or dodgy mapping.

It's starting to get a little fishy as the car cost 3800 pounds.

I've compared the performance with stock Type-R STi's on youtube and it's nowhere near as quick.

I paid this much for a car so i wouldnt have to throw cash at it like I have been my CRX VT but it's starting to look like this is going to be a moneypit!
Could anybody shed some light?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Yes that sounds fishy, depending on which model you have, you should have either a vf23, a vf 24 or a vf28 turbocharger (v3, v4, v5&6), if its running a UK engine (should show you the block code on there, its going to say either EJ205 or EJ207), though it could say anything as it does sound like someone has replaced the engine with a UK car's (and ecu).
Speciallist is your best bet, or take the car back if its not advertised as what it was.

Tony

s13silvia

Just went out to check - EJ20 is all thats on the block stamp. Is there any other way of telling if it's an STI jdm block or UK turbo 2000 block?

Sprint Chief

Wow, that is a peculiar set up. Even more odd is that the 8S has an immobiliser system built into it - unless it is not an 8S or has been remapped (unlikely, very few have) then whoever transferred the ECU must have added the immobiliser.

Might be worth double checking whatever is inside the ECU is actually an 8S - it should have a blue label on the big yellow 3-plug connector saying "000 D37".

Also - what colour are your injectors and MAF sensor label?

s13silvia

It's got a cobra Immobiliser on it as far as I've been told. It better have - if it doesn't then my insurance is out the window. I'll check ECU plug and injectors now.

Edit-the injectors are Yellow (but then these would have been on the STI anyway)
The MAF has a chrome cap and a really dark brown sticker underneath that by the looks.

The fob is def a cobra so that's something.

The ECU plug does say D37

The advert states 'the ECU also has a chip inside' - but I'm not planning stripping it apart to check. Most ECU's do lol, he hasnt specified if it's aftermarket.

Sprint Chief

The cobra is a separate aftermarket immobiliser, but the 8S has a built in factory immobiliser as well. It communicates with a chip in the key via an electronic unit in the dash. But this was only fitted to UK/EU cars - the factory immobiliser was never fitted to JDM cars, including the box in the dash.

PS. MAF sensor label is orange for JDM or purple for UK MAF sensor. It is in the pipe that attaches to your airbox.

s13silvia

Yep its brown/orange MAF. But again, these extraneous parts could all be re-fitted as the car definitely started as an STI (being a 2 door type R). Aside from the forged pistons is there any performance difference purely going between a uk turbo 2000 block/head and a jdm block/head if running all the other STI parts? Perhaps I'm just grasping at straws here and the problem lies with the boost levels/ boost leak etc. but would be nice to clarify the setup.

s13silvia

I guess the first thing to do would be to swap out the 8S ECU and put in a 6S from a 97 STi Type R ? Asssuming everything is STi barring the block/head it should still run ok?

Sprint Chief

Heads are quite different between UK and JDM STi, with different valvetrain that allows the rev limit to be higher.

As you note, the injectors and MAF are indeed JDM. The D37 label suggests the ECU is indeed an 8S.

This is a bit of an odd one all around. If the ECU were standard, then it would need the immobiliser signal that I am guessing does not exist. The ECU is probably chipped but that in itself is unusual - there were chipping options some years back imported from Australia / Japan, chipping options in the UK have only become available recently. I would consider opening the ECU (just six screws, careful though as they have threadlock - make sure you use the right size screwdriver and use plenty of weight pushing down on the screws as you untighten them) and taking a photograph, put it up and we might be able to let you know what you have.

Incidentally, the pinout of the 8S and 6S are different - cam and crank sensors are swapped, and fuel pump relay is on a different pin. So be careful if just swapping.

Also, as Tony correctly notes, the turbo is wrong for the application. The 6S has boost target and wastegate duty for a completely different turbo. So this would not solve all of your problems...

s13silvia

Is there a visible difference outside that I could go by? I'm not planning lifting out the engine to strip it down. I'm really quite uptight about this after the money spent on the car from an importer who clearly knows his stuff. I can't imagine why somebody would go to the hassle of taking out the stock 6S ECU, putting in an 8S chipping it and re-pinning the pre-plug loom. It seems rediculous? I'll get a pic in a sec.

Sprint Chief

Unfortunately the blocks are interchangeable, so you really need to check inside to be certain of what you have. Easiest way is probably an endoscope down a spark plug hole if you can beg / steal / borrow one.

Edited to add: if you got the car from a trader you have a certain time limit to return the car and demand your money back - but it isn't a very long period! If the car is faulty then they should repair it free of charge within 3 months of sale.

craigo

iTrader: (1)

Gulp im really sorry to hear all this being a Type R owner. you are getting brilliant advice here. will help if i can....

Craig

s13silvia

Crikey sounds like a mission. I did, but the trader sold it outwith his business as a private sale on a 'sold as seen' basis. I doubt hell take it back - plus it's a 400 mile drive back with it.

craigo

iTrader: (1)

fooooooooooooook, double gulp

Sprint Chief

Ah... one of those types of traders Understood.

Allen

iTrader: (1)

Where was this car advertised? Iv not seen a type r that cheap on Pheads/ebay/Snet.....

Sounds so far like you have been pretty well mugged off, but it also sounds like you did very little research before buying quite a specialised car.

s13silvia

It was on ebay/pistonheads and gumtree I think and has been on for a couple of weeks.

In fairness though it's these kinds of problems that you can only detect after running the car for more than a test-drive allows. Things like 8S/6S ECU's didn't cross my mind. I checked for red inlet mani/sti intercooler/brakes/interior etc. and was satisfied it was an STI as much as was possible (not going to take an endoscope to a car sale, you have to assume a level of honesty on the sellers part). Checked the oil/coolant/ ecu codes etc. As I was in the middle of a busy city I couldn't give it full throttle in any gear higher than 2nd where it 'felt fast'. It was only on the motorway after purchase that I noticed 5th wasn't pulling very well. I knew in advance the turbo wasn't the IHI/VF turbo the STi's came with, but as the car run smoothly and pulled in 1st/2nd (by feel, no boost gauge to check) I figured all was ok. Most turbo cars I've had stall at low revs on full throttle if there's a boost leak and this didn't happen. I checked all buyers guides on the forums and everything 'standard' checked out, the VIN, the engine code, no big-end knock/ piston slap etc.
Just one of those things I guess. I have quite a lot of experience with turbo import/v8/ high performance cars also which makes it more the pity, if I was able to take it out on the motorway pre-sale then I wouldve known something was up - but thems the breaks.

Now to fix what's up as I'm not going to sell it on knowing theres a lack of power somewhere, just wish I didnt have to spend any cash on it.

craigo

iTrader: (1)

see on my signature there...

join straight away