stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

Ok this may be really stupid so flame suit on, but Soo many people mod these cars, some stay 2.0 some 2.1 some 2.35 and finally 2.5 I was wondering to start with what's the pro' and con's for going with each and my other question is say we forged all of them, same supporting mods all running the same turbo some form of rotated gt30 or 35 etc what estimated power out puts of them be, if someone could list them that would be great.
2.0
2.1
2.35
2.5

Cheers

jura11

iTrader: (7)

If its no money object 2.35 is best choice from above,have look how many cars running these engines without the failure,2.5 is prone to failure due have thick walls.
Depends on your budget and how much bhp you want.


Jura

happydude303

iTrader: (1)

but i would say the 2.1 give you very good bang for buck i mean most people are happy with 550hp which a good built 2.1 can deliver and for a 4 grand from engine tuner drive in and out that a dam good price to be honest when i had my 2.0 forged some time ago i was not aware of the 2.1 i new the 2.3 was out there but cost money but if i was to do it all again i would go 2.1

dunx

iTrader: (3)

They would all be limited by the turbo chosen...

But the 2.35 would last the longest and cost the most...
The 2.5 would make the nicer road engine, due to low down torque delivery...
The 2.1 is my choice for the money...
The 2.0 wouldn't be the worst by any stretch of the imagination.

dunx

P.S. So it comes down to the fatness of your wallet...

Harryr34

iTrader: (9)

Roughly how much sooner would a 2.1 spool a turbo than a 2.0?

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Depends on turbo,but some says around 300-500rpm.




Jura

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

If to a degree money was not a big object and your goal was any where above 500 then if a built 2.1 would do, a linered 2.5 would do and the 2.35 would do. Then how do you make your choice on the block. In essence wouldn't a 2.5 make more power then the 2.1? And if you fitted a rotated 35 on all four of them would they all make the same power or would the 2.5 come out on top ( forgeting the thin wall issue)

Sorry for possible silly questions but .............. Got to start some where lol

happydude303

iTrader: (1)

of money was no oblect id be looking at doing something brand new liek a flat six turbo charged beast : > i think jgm is doing somethign along them lines

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

Would that be able to be applied in theory to a 2.35 to a 2.1 and then the 2.5 to 2.35 if that makes sense. And would that mean a 2.5 would spool a turbo near on 1k sooner then a 2.0 or am I off the mark

matth76

There's no replacement for displacement as they say. However most of these engines have their pros and cons. I'm not an expert but after speaking to several specialists the 2.5 will definitely make more torque compared to smaller blocks in stock form or with same level of mods. However it does not rev as quickly/freely as smaller displacement blocks. I assume the ultimate would be a closed deck block of some kind.

I don't know whether a larger block engine would make a turbo spool faster or not. I would assume not as other factors are involved, mainly to do with the inlet and exhaust gases.

LegacySTi

iTrader: (13)

2.1 or if can stretch 2.33..

2.5 on rotated not realiable long term enough.

2.0 is fine also.

Grant74

iTrader: (10)

I looked at this a while back, and would agree with most of the comments above.

while there is some 'black magic' to be had in making smaller engines spool earlier, the larger the engine size the faster the spool all else being equal.

2.35 would be my ideal given the 2.5 weakness, but then everythign has a weakness- 450 seems to be commonly achievable on them without too much bother- how much more do you want while keeping it driveable?

Tidgy

its takes a hell of alot more than 4k to get to 550bhp, so try not to be under any illusion of costs involved

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

Think he meant the engine build would cost 4k and be suitable to run 550

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Yes can be applied,but depends if its AVCS or non AVCS etc.

If you are looking for 500bhp+ 2.5L,this may involve block pinning and fitting Darton sleeves,possibly 14mm conversion etc and at end will cost as 2.35(i was been offered 2.35 for £3.5-£4k excluding fitting) and maybe will be not reliable as 2.35,2.1.




Jura

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

This is what I am trying to find out, if the 2.35 is regarded as the best option but expensive and the 2.5 in theory is the weakest link and costs so much to make it safe to run 500+ then the 2.35 becomes the best option. If I ran a gt35 on both a

2.35 and a 2.5

At what point would the both spool and what power would they each make

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Probably best is contact few mappers,tuners and engine builders.

Here is dyno run of CJ from SES,2.35,GT30



Boost




Jura

happydude303

iTrader: (1)

thats exactly what i meant


and to tidgy i no what it cost as i have spent about 10 grand getting my classic to take the likes of 450hp i.e engine ,ecu , six speed all the other engine mods and brakes , i belive this the orgrianl post by stevie1982 was to discuss engines not the rest of the mod list, seen as he has been a meber on here since 2005 im sure he nows

Tidgy

furry muff

tbh its very much a budget and requirements kinda question. Also dpends on who you ask will depend on what answer you get.

happydude303

iTrader: (1)

very true

dunx

iTrader: (3)

For reference my turbo made 550 bhp on a 2.5, and spooled "normally"...

On my 2.0 AVCS lump it spooled at 6000 rpm...

dunx

stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

Thats it, I'm looking into the actual engine side of things as which ever model I buy next, I hope and knowing what i am like with changing cars so often it will be to stay for a good few years as I have dropped to much cash over the years so planning to buy one, keep it and build something special. Issue is what ever I get the engine side of things needs to be addressed. If a 2.5 will cost to much to make it reliable over 500 and is similar to the cost of a 2.35 then a 2.35 it will have to be but if a 2.1 is a cheaper and as reliable option then its worth finding out pro and con of each avenue from people who have paid for it and use it on a daily basis not the guys who are selling them. I will deal with that later as for now its the owners / user I'm intrested in.

What ever size engine its going to have a rotated big blower fitted so I need to work out which block will suit it best, spool, boost etc hence asking you guys who drive them daily

Any help and pointers would be much appreciated

Tidgy

go find a tuner, get advice, act on it. theres many ways to skin a cat and what works once, won't always work a second time. Ask tuners who have built dozens if not hundreds of engines for best route, an odd success doesn't not a rule make.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi there i have personally 2.1 JDM WRX with AVCS and we are went for SC50 which seems on 2.0 STi is too laggy,due this we are went in start 2.1 with some addons which help to spool.

In this time we have offer go for 2.35,but at this time i've been little bit short on money ,which will be great with any turbo(rotated or standard location),we are thinking build as second engine in next year and will be for sure 2.35

As for 2.5 i never think about this engine..

And at not least depends on turbo which you are going,have look at Scoobyclinic billet range where you can have look which turbo will suit you best.
As for spool i would go for Lateral Garrett turbos which seems have better spool like Billet range from SC(which use Blouch turbos GTX),but this no confirmation,because out here are not back to back test,which is shame.



Jura

dunx

iTrader: (3)

IMHO you could build a 2.5 and get it to last at 500 bhp this would be a mean engine for a road car; with mountains of torque.

I'm mid-build for a 2.1 and after a run in Bigarf's 650 bhp example, it isn't slow by any means... but if you do have the budget a 2.35 is the strongest, and will rev like a 2.0 but produce torque like a 2.5.

dunx

P.S. Aiming for 500 bhp with mine, S-CDB, headwork, cams, GT3076R hybrid ( std. fit), but so long as it's tough and lasts I'll be happy anywhere over 400 bhp

Toffee

iTrader: (3)

Just been reading this thread from the start, it would appear that everyone agrees that the 2.35 is best, the 2.1 is great and the 2.5s are ok but not reliable over 500hp? yet looking at the Scoobynet BHP leader board there are a few linered 2.5s making huge power, a few of these guys have had 2.5CDBs from Chy @ Penine, they seem to be very reliable

I also note that peeps think that the 2.35s rev quickly where as the 2.5s are slow to rev I think there is only 100cc's difference in these engines, would the 2.5 really be that different

Lee.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi Lee

with 2.5 linered or sleeved etc.,you will reach this bhp,but if will be reliable on longer run(not just on few races,but daily run) its second question,just have look on few engines failure on 22b,here too etc.

About the 2.35 is weapon of choice for everyone who wants the reliable 600bhp+


Jura

Toffee

iTrader: (3)

^^^^^ Agreed the 2.35's are tops, just ££££££££££ cost loads

Lee

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

If you want a bit less than 500bhp 2.5 everytime! Best spool and torque for a road car
If you want something reliable higher than 500 and don't want to spend the amount a 2.35 would cost 2.1. Won't be as drivable on the road as the bigger capacities, but some folks on here run useable road cars well into the 500s with the 2.1. If you want something in the 500s or above and can afford it, go for the 2.35.

At this level it's ALWAYS expensive to do right though!! The forged short engine is only the starting point!!

Toffee

iTrader: (3)

I agree with what you are saying, but it would appear that a lot of the cost of the 2.35L motor is the blocks, I think this is due to there limited availability? I have heard a 2.15 CDB short motor go for around £3800, so why are the 2.35L CDB short motors closer to £6500

As always things move on, if the sleved/pinned 2.5's work reliably and consistantly, it would appear that the higher price for the 2.35L is not justified?

This is not a firm conclusion, just a thought?

Lee.