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Woes on my 2002 STi

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Old 19 March 2010, 02:13 AM
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Stevesbluewrx
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Default Woes on my 2002 STi

Done a few changes on the car in the last month and Simon (JGM) mapped it.

Added last month
840cc injectors
Parrallel rails mod
Turbo intake pipe
Catch can
5 litres of Meth with V Power
Lateral Performance Thermal spacers
RCM Extended bolts
3 Port Boost Solenoid
DV delete

Other mods
STi TMIC
MD321T
Lateral Performance tubular headers and up-pipe wrapped
Fuelab reg (micro 2 port)
RCM Team ICE system with NON RES CENTRE
RCM Sports CAT
Hyperflow CAI with Green Cone filter
255 Walbro pump
Silkolene PRO S 10w/50 Engine oil



Just over a week of the car running tip top with no problems at all other than the slipping clutch but on the Monday a couple of weeks back whilst I was off work I went out for a little run in the car with the family so wasn't booting it. Whilst in 6th gear doing a speed of 70mph and 3,000rpm on the M3 the error code P0171 popped up with the engine managment light. Got home checked the reason for code and had a look and couldn't find anything and car was driving fine so deleted code and waited for the code to pop back up if problem was that bad etc.

The following day on the Tuesday on my way to work it kept hunting and idle speed went in the high 500's and low 600 RPM before cutting out. Lost count how many times it done it on my way to work stuck in traffic but once I got to work's car park it cut out a further 3 times.

Also did 1/4 tank in a 9 mile trip.

Any other time the car drives a treat and pulls well until you come to a snail pace and the revs drop. Resulting in cutting out.

During what lunch I do get at work checked to see if a vaccum pipe had popped off and nothing starring back at me so thought sod it.

When it come to leave work it sounded a little different on firing up. But she kept idle and was ok so off I went. But she kept cutting out again once in traffic (further 4 times and twice when getting it in my garage).

Went over to see Simon at SRR same day and couldn't find any obivious problems and off I went. (Si did change something on idle parametres but he'll correct me if I am wrong).
Error code P0171 popped up on the way and Si deleted it.

Anyway, car worked ok the following day until it came to me driving home from work the day after. Cut out on me three times. Error code P0171 came up again.
Another 1/4 of a tank used in a 9 miles trip.

So after checking with Si via text where to start I did that evening
Checked all pipe work for any leaks all OK.
Checked connections and harness plugs etc all ok.

Got the car out the garage that weekend to do something. Thought I'd have a look at my FPR. It was showing 3.5bar and in a space of 2mins dropped to 3.1 then sat at 2.9bar idle then back up to 3.1/3.2bar.
Put car away and thought about my pizza for dinner.

Replaced the gaskets for manifold and tumblers the following day with my mate Mike as we used the lat set as a pair of glasses whilst doing my car in a moment of Stella . He noticed one of the earths was a little loose so tightened that up.

Switched car on to check etc no leaks from tumbler gaskets. Car was at idle speed and FPR showing 3.4bar then dropped holding 3.1bar.

Went for a test drive and idle problem fixed but whilst at a crusing speed in 4th gear the bloody error code P0171 came on yet again.

Due to the code it's not clear on what the problem could be?

Had no option but to use the car again on the Tuesday for work. Before setting off I delete the P0171 code. Started the car.. and it did it again after running for 15mins. Yep, cutting out like anything.

Weird from cold I noticed that morning. When the pump primes and you get the fuel going through the pipes when you start the car it starts off really low Idle say around 950rpm then after 20secs goes up to 1,600 or so RPM. But soon as you engage a gear the revs drop to 900RPM as normal but didn't do this before hand? Weird.

Got to work and checked the vaccum pipe on the FPR to see if that was kinked or split. Nothing.

On the same day when it came for me to leave work the car it took 5 goes to start and fire up. When it did loads of smoke came out the exhaust pipe?

The rest of that week the car ran with no cutting out what so ever and idle was pretty much normal. Everyday apart from the mornings it would take around 3 or 4 goes before the car comes to life and still lots of smoke coming out the back on first start up though?

On the Thursday I got home just in time before the light went. I pinched the vaccum hose running from the FPR to the manifiold and FPR gauge went up in FP readings? Is that normal if your stopping the vaccum? I found out after that this is normal etc so rulled the FPR out.

Noticed on the Saturday too that my exhaust pipe is very heavy in black diposits including the lower part of the bumper.

Started the car Sunday. Fuel pump primed but took an age for the fuel to go through the front lines. Or was that me being paranoid.

Looked at my clocks and was shocked to see I'd done just over half a tank and 107.6 miles!!!

On the Monday evening on my way to work gave it some sprited driving with two Escort Cossies (yeah thats what I thought but must have been a Ford Night somewhere) .

She pulled a treat no problems etc. Soon as I was at cruising speed the light popped up again.

Got to work checked the code and same one (P0171). Deleted it. Got asked to move my car by security and she wouldn't start and stalled on idle 3 times.

I then thought it was the MAF. I am on a second MAF in about 6 months as I thiought that was the issue before hand but turned out to be a leaking injector seal hence the latest mods on the car etc . Wasn't looking forward to forking out on SUBARU UK's price. Looked at the ones on eBay but think they would last all of 5mins!!

On the way home from work the car was popping banging and flaming out the back. Sounded good but what was worrying was the fact I wasn't going over 3,000 / 3,300rpm !!

So Wednesday and Thursday of this week. I cleaned both my MAFs . Let them dry out over night.
Started the car today and it was hunting still. Thought it was learning again so pulled away. Rev's were ok but not great BUT not stalling.

Popped round my frineds place for a few hours. Got back in the car and hunting at first then thought I'd take it for a drive and after 15/20mins the light came up again. P0171.

So after coming to a stand still deleted the code. Switched engine off and restarted it. And hunting and cutting out again.
Swapped the MAF's over again and still no change.

So would you suggest it's maybe not the MAF but one of the Co2 sensors?
At a guess would it be the pre-cat (in the headers) thats the cause?

I've kind of run out of ideas tbh.


Not having much luck. Clutch is going. My wing mirror got broken by some **** last week a work and finally gave up the ghost today.



Sorry it's a long boring read. Just need to know before I start buying things like SIMTEK sooner than planned.

Steve
Old 19 March 2010, 08:25 AM
  #2  
Butty
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Using lots of fuel but being lean suggests to me:

- Front oxygen sensor.
- Big air leak before turbo. Check DV delete sealing and where the CAI clamps on to the turbo inlet hose. Also the clamp for hose fitting onto turbo mouth. Catch can hose connections.
- Plug/ ignition problem. Are coil packs firmly attached/ very loose spark plug/ damaged plug.
- MAF sensor under-reading air flow.

The sensor faults and an air leak at idle should bring up other CELS.

What plugs did you fit with these mods?

The FPR pressure varying may just be due to the idle speed fluctuating severely.

Last edited by Butty; 19 March 2010 at 08:54 AM.
Old 19 March 2010, 10:18 AM
  #3  
mike81
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Originally Posted by Butty
What plugs did you fit with these mods?
.
7's i believe
Old 19 March 2010, 06:16 PM
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Midlife......
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I'd go for under-reading MAF if there are no air leaks......

If the front 02 sensor is working then the ECU will throw in a lot of extra fuel if the MAF thinks less air is going in At least that's how I think it works but may be wrong (as usual)

Shaun
Old 20 March 2010, 12:07 AM
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Fubar'd coolant temp sensor? If putting out/stuck on a voltage that relates to cold idle, then could this not cause the overfuelling, at the very least? It could also explain the stalling.

The above is probably wrong, but thought I better mention it in case it was overlooked. For £30 or so, it might be worth changing? Nothing ventured........
Old 20 March 2010, 01:50 AM
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Stevesbluewrx
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Cheers for the input guys.

I have changed the air filter from the hyperflow foam one to a Green cone style one.

Also on the new bumper I have a cold air inlet for the CAI in the fog light but this is not goign direct onto the filter itself etc.

I bought a new Denso Lamda sensor today so should be with me tomorrow.

Butty, Mike is right. I have NGK 7's on there now. Think they have been in for just over a year now?

Would a dirty ICV cause problems too? I'm sure I read at some point when you add Meth if a ICV is dirty it can play with it?

It's a case of try this try that isn't it. lol

Steve
Old 20 March 2010, 04:28 PM
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Had to clean my icv several times. I found it gunged up with carbon and sticking leading to idle problems etc. Definatly worth cleaning it>
Old 20 March 2010, 05:05 PM
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so what does a P0171 error code equate to?
Old 21 March 2010, 01:07 PM
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Stevesbluewrx
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Originally Posted by Turbotits
Had to clean my icv several times. I found it gunged up with carbon and sticking leading to idle problems etc. Definatly worth cleaning it>
Turbotits, whats the best thing to use on the ICV to clean? Brake Cleaner?


Steve
Old 21 March 2010, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevesbluewrx
Turbotits, whats the best thing to use on the ICV to clean? Brake Cleaner?


Steve

Yea brake or carb cleaner. Once clean make sure the flap can slide easily. i took all the electrics off mine and soaked it overnight in wd40 the first time i did as it was pretty seized. i now tend to clean it about every six months or so just to keep on top of it.
Old 01 April 2010, 08:52 PM
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Just put a brand new MAF in . So thats a new MAF and Lambda.

Reset the ECU and took the battery off for 30 mins. As normal the car starting up funny due to battery being off and AVCS kicking in.

Revs hunted but used to that when you do the above.

Trouble is that after driving for 45mins and coming to my first stop it hunted and starting cutting out again. Went on the Motorway and she drove ok. Coming off the Motorway the car conked out again at the traffic lights.

No lights on yet so thats a good sign at present?

Would the Fuel Pump be related to this or is it more of a vaccum issue? Even Air filter maybe? What about not enough fuel pressure? I'm running 840cc but fuel pressure on hot idle sits between 3.1-2.9bar. If I am coming off the pedal the pressure will drop.
Do I need to up the fuel pressure on the FPR? If so to what and would I do it when the engine is running and warm?

I'm getting to the point of giving up. Already planing on going FMIC & Simtek next couple of weeks - early next month? Is it worth it now?

It's a small thing but cannot work it out.

Steve
Old 01 April 2010, 09:03 PM
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I'd not imagine the fuel pressure was a problem with those (huge) injectors. What has Simon said about it ?

You really need to sort the cause of the problem, otherwise an FMIC & Simtek could be a waste of time and money ? i.e. not a cure to the problem.

IMHO

dunx
Old 01 April 2010, 09:15 PM
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Hey Dunx,

Si thought it was along the lines of a sensor. Which I have changed.
Just don't understand why it's doing it?

I hear you on the FMIC & Simtek mate. Was going Simtek due to blowing x2 previous MAF's and thought get it over and done with?

Is it worth changing the plugs? On Grade 7 at present.

I've come to a dead end so any input is welcome.

Steve
Old 01 April 2010, 09:33 PM
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As mentioned above coolant temp sender. if sender is reading wrong ecu will open icv a bit more than needed thus more fuel causing your exhaust to be black and bad mpg. I would also try another top mount intercooler and pipe just incase there is a hairline crack.
Old 02 April 2010, 10:42 AM
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I wish I could sort bug-eyes I'd be rich...

Shawn R is having lambda/MAF/IAT/coolant sensor issues, but which do you start with ?

Sorry !

dunx

P.S. Mine seems a bit thirsty and "lumpy" too.... When I enquired, it seems a wideband lambda sensor is needed adding £350 to the Simtek... or was that Syvec ?

Last edited by dunx; 02 April 2010 at 10:47 AM.
Old 02 April 2010, 12:20 PM
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I have skim read the above as you asked.
Continuing to run the car when it uses 1/4 of a tank in 10 miles or whatever is very unwise as I expect you have serious bore wash if there is no fuel leak.
1. Identify P0171. I have no data here to do that at present.
2. If your car was mapped on a failing MAF sensor and a new MAF has been fitted then that will have to be looked at again by your mapper. Have you not been in touch with your mapper?

For your knowledge, the fuel pressure is controlled by the FPR as you already know. Fuel pressure is set at an amount over engine pressure and should remain a constant differential throughout engine operation. For example, if you are running 3 bar over boost you should have 3 bar fuel pressure at zero boost and 4.5 bar fuel pressure at 1.5 bar boost. Therefore if your engine is ticking over on .7 bar of vacuum you should have 2.3 bar fuel pressure. Now when you start the car it may have .5 bar vacuum so the boost pressure will be 2.5 bar.
Hope this helps.
Old 02 April 2010, 04:03 PM
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Just thinking.......was it mapped with the CAI in place or have you added it afterwards ??

Shaun
Old 02 April 2010, 08:59 PM
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Cheers guys,

Harvey thanks for taking a look at the thread.

Simon (JGM) is aware? Didn'y know he had to look at it after I fitted a new MAF?

P0171 Subaru
System Too Lean- Bank 1

Looking at the engine bay. What one is Bank 1?

As I have got a straight turbo inlet pipe the vaccum's on the manifold have have been blanked off.

Bore washing now I am worried!!!!!!!!!!

There was some sort of solenoid for emmessions I was told ot leave on etc. Two of the nipples have not been blanked but are not in use. If that makes sense.

Manifold coolent delete also (can't recall the technical term for it) would cause anything regards the ICV?

I've got the catch can venting at present as need to sort out a good breather filter. Would this cause such codes?

In regards the FPR, I was tomorrow going to adjust the FPR to up it slightly. Is this now not a wise idea?

No fuel leaks that I can see?

I have to use the car at the moment for work etc as I have no other form of transport anymore.

Midlife, was mapped with whats on there at present.


Steve
Old 02 April 2010, 09:50 PM
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I have issues with poor running when I run mine once a year on the standard ECU. The MAF does not like induction kits due to the turbulent airflow. I did fit a induction kit that was supposed to solve this issue but the Lambda reading was still all over the place. Last year before re-fitting the OE ECU I relocated the MAF sensor to the pipe from my FMIC to the throttle housing and the Lambda was spot on. So am ready to get the OE ECU mapped to take into account the mods I have done.
Old 02 April 2010, 10:49 PM
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Strange Steve.. it was fine for a while and then went off like this so one would assume it was the maf or another sensor.

need to take a look.. YHM

Simon
Old 03 April 2010, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Jolly Green Monster
Strange Steve.. it was fine for a while and then went off like this so one would assume it was the maf or another sensor.

need to take a look.. YHM

Simon
Cheers Si.

Thanks for the PM. Have a reply mate.


Steve
Old 03 April 2010, 12:26 PM
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On my list of fault codes P0171 is

System Too Lean (Bank 1) - usually caused by a leak in the intake system somewhere between the Mass Air Flow sensor and the cylinder intake valves. Look for a vacuum hose that’s become disconnected or a crack in one of the tubes connected to the turbocharger

That's all it says. I presume Bank 1 is the drivers side on a UK car. Yes??
Old 03 April 2010, 12:40 PM
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Well, cylinders 1 and 3 (with 1 at the front; 3 near turbo lol) are on the driver's side... so presumably bank 1 is indeed on the driver side????
Old 03 April 2010, 12:56 PM
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Bank 1 and 2 refer to V8 engines.... IIRC

Lean means that the ecu is getting an out of range value, NOT that it is lean.

Sensor failure is far more likely.

IMHO

dunx
Old 03 April 2010, 05:51 PM
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Had this code myself and as said above it was indeed a pipe on the inlet manifold that was suckng in air straight to the manifold so un measured by the maf

Are you sure all the pipes etc that needed to be blanked off are when you fitted the cai
Old 03 April 2010, 10:32 PM
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Cheers for the input once again guys.

Now the kids are in bed I went out and double checked all vaccum pipes. All on ok.

Originally Posted by dunx
Bank 1 and 2 refer to V8 engines.... IIRC



Lean means that the ecu is getting an out of range value, NOT that it is lean.

Sensor failure is far more likely.

IMHO

dunx
Dunx, what you mean NOT lean? Just the ECU reading out of range or have I had a Stella too many than I thought?

I didn't adjust my FPR as I am not 100% sure what the deal is so didn't want to change it and also will be meeting Simon on Thursday for him to check the car.

What I do remember now is when I changed the following,
Turbo Intake
Thermal Spacers
Parrallel rails
Catch can
On the 550 (or 500cc) Pinks on my way to getting it mapped it was cutting out on low revs. It didn't adjust the FPR as I knew that the 840cc were going in at the rolling road as I didn't want to Bore Wash it.

Would I be wrong in thinking, that with parrallel rails the fuel pressure is more direct from using the OE rails? Now with the 840cc I'm noticing it a lot more?

Also, the solenoid that reads emissions is plugged in but the two ports from it are not going to anything. So that would mean the deleting of the Round thing that would then be sat between the manifold and the pulley covers. Would this need to be added?

I'm lost.

Steve
Old 03 April 2010, 11:13 PM
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Steve when mine was doing this on the Simtek it was a hose to my boost gauge that had the smallest split in it... i'd check all the hoses for even the smallest hole
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