shamone

iTrader: (1)

I have a 1998 UK turbo 2000 and I want MORE POWER!!! Not stupid amounts (just yet) but heading towards the 300 mark (I would be well happy if I could get 280+ on a reasonable budget without melting my internals).

After trawling this site for info on upgrades, looking at posts from other uk owners looking for similar results, and following links on those posts to other sites (such as Andy Forrest) I’m pretty much aware of what I need to change and upgrade to get what I need, but I’m left with one sticking point.

What to do with the ECU?

There’s talk of Z4s, PPP upgrades, piggyback chips, apexi and simtek. The Z4 option seems fiddly and FAR from ideal so I’ve binned that idea . The prodrive ECUs are available in similar quantities to rocking horse poop, so that’s out of the window. Piggyback chips seem like a half assed way to get some improvements, but fuelled a lot of negative comments and ultimately still don’t let me remap the ecu – so that’s not an option I want to look at either.

Apexi seems like quite an expensive way to go at £400+ for a 2nd hand ECU (plus I’ve read you need to also invest in a boost controller to go with this) and then the cost of the RR/remap on top. I’ve searched ebay and various classifieds for 2nd hand simtek ECUs and found nothing (would they be available on there??). But more interestingly, i also read that ESL are looking into mapping for the standard 97-98 ECUs, and are expecting to have a solution before the end of the year.

So I guess that leaves me with three questions:
Is the ESL mapping likely to appear, and if so is it likely at be at a similar price to the 92-96 costs of about £550 ?
Simtek – are these available 2nd hand and how much is it just to get them mapped to your car (don’t fancy the £1000 new option!!)?
Apexi – is it worth the money when compared to the other two above?

Just wanted pros and cons really, as if I want more (reliable) power then I’m gonna have to choose one of these!! Is it worth hanging fire for a month or so to see if the ESL thing becomes reality before I make my decision, or should I just go for the 2nd hand apexi option as it seems most popular (not wanting to be a lemming, but popular = common = available = cheaper!!!)

I’m sure you’ve all seen 100 posts like this already, but your comments / advice would be appreciated……… particularly in regard to the ESL solution.

P.S: Before it’s suggested, “Just buy a mappable newage or sti” is not an option for me J

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

2nd hand simtek's come up for sale every now and again - one for sale on 22b.com now as it happens.

That would be a good and cheap option.

The ESL 98 board has been coming soon for ages .. I am sure it will appear soon but ultimately an after market ecu opens up a lot of options for you.

shamone

iTrader: (1)

So the ESL board is/will be just a "fixed" replacement board that would also have its own limitations?

"has been coming soon for ages" sounds very much like it could well be 2014 before that's available anyway!!!

If that's the case then i'd definitely go for the aftermarket ecu.......

But Apexi or Simtek?

Can't get on 22b at work but i'll check it out when i get home. I suppose i'm just after the best value for money option, which now seems to be a 2nd hand apexi ~£400 and a remap ~£300.

Bit concerned about the possible need for a boost controller though (and the extra cost!!) but the adjustability sounds ideal for any other mods i may choose to make in the future.

Just want to get my plan sorted before i start buying things, and ideally come up with a plan that is easily amended without being left out of pocket from products that won't be compatible.......

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

The 2nd hand simtek was £550 but without checking it I cant remember if it was for your year. But they come up for around this price + mapping.

Obviously this is slightly more expensive than apexi but wouldnt need a sep boost controller and does away with the MAf which is a big plus. Plus there are some nice added extras that can be done.

tweaks

iTrader: (7)

went from apexi to simtek myself as have many others,never heard of anyone going from a simtek to an apexi though

simtek is far better in my opinion,car feels so much better boost is smoother and all controlled through the ecu so no need for a seperate boost controller.

shamone

iTrader: (1)

Sounds good, and thanks for the input folks.... most of the reading i've done is on the apexi so i'll have to have more of a look at the simtek stuff. What "extras" can be done with this over the apexi??

The price put me off a bit with the low availability of the simtek 2nd hand, but i could bide my time till one comes along at the right price/time. Will most likely be New Year before i start laying any cash out, so it gives me plenty of time for digging....

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Have a chat with Simon (JGM) - he knows Simtek inside out.

FB Tuning

iTrader: (30)

No need for a seperate boost controller or the Apexi Boost Control Kit on a 1997/1998 Car - Standard MAP sensor supports 1.7Bar IIRC.

The way the car feels to drive is more down to the map that's on it, rather than it being an Apexi or a Simtek running the engine.

Simtek is MAP Sensor Based, so no need for the MAF sensor
Apexi is MAF based (unless you're using a MafSimulator)

Simtek has AntiLag and Launch Control - Apexi doesn't.

Simtek can only be mapped by Simtek dealers (or you can do it yourself if you purchase the software and cable) - Apexi can be mapped by anyone who has a Datalogit.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

don't totally agree.. yes obviously a good and a bad map will drive different but the fine defintion of the fuel tables and ignition tables and processor speed influence how smooth it is.. simtek would be smoother than an apexi.. don;t get me wrong apexi is a fantastic bit of kit but the difference from that to a simtek or solaris etc is very noticable.

Simon

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

thanks Duncan.

As has been said Simtek is map based so you can remove the maf sensor, although not really a massive issue on the 98 car it does free up the induction options.. nice k&n with spun ally trumpet works well. Although saying that the 98 maf maxes out mid 300s due to the slightly smaller diameter than the sti version, not an issue now but maybe in future.
As richard says no need for a boost controller but a 3port boost solenoid is a very good addition, aids boost control no end.
SimTek has two maps so you can have one for high and one for low boost or one for 99ron and one for 95ron etc depends on what you want.
Antilag and launch control are optional extras.

jumping back slightly the original turbo is basically a 280bhp turbo give or take a bit so should meet your current happy with 280 goal just.

Simon

tweaks

iTrader: (7)

what Simon said was what i meant

shamone

iTrader: (1)

Excellent answers folks - just the sort of info i was after so many thanks!!

Very much liking the 2 maps idea, would prove most useful....

The budget i have doesn't allow me to start changing the turbo/injectors/etc (yet!) so i accept that for now i will be restricted to about 280max, which is why i set that as my target. Just looking to step up gradually as i get a) the money b) used to the increase in power c) the missus convinced that i should spend more on the car rather than a new bathroom (a new bath won't get her to work!!)

ECU first though, and need to make sure i get the right piece of kit - so a couple more questions:
After the initial mapping, how do costs compare between the apexi and simtek for another remap after further upgrades? Assuming you go to the same mapper as the original setup (i would expect similar, but....)?
The apexi has the hand controller, but does the simtek have an equivalent external control unit or the like, haven't been able to find any pictures online?

Thanks

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

The simtek will grow with you so will be more suited if you are modding further whereas the Apexi will have limits on what it can do.. you wont need a hand controller if mapped right.

shamone

iTrader: (1)

So far it's about 7-1 to simtek for people recommending...... looks like this is going to be the way forward!!

Is there anything i should be looking out for when buying 2nd hand or that needs to be included? Like certificates, wiring, plugs, etc??

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

tweaks are the same, or rather I charge same to tweak a simtek as I do to tweak an apexi.. the only extra is the first mapping on a secondhand simtek is 50+VAT more as there is slightly more work in installing and setting it up than an apexi.

you need to make sure it is a 3plug ecu and will have on the board E1S.97.XXXX where XXXX is a number.. if you send me that number or simtek it is then possible to check the age of it and what revision of software etc.. but they are all forward compatible and can be updated anyway. Only other thing being the ALS and launch control are optional but can be added to an ecu that doesn't have it.. just bear in mind new cost compared to secondhand plus mapping etc..

Simon

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

I am going to be moving from an apexi on my 97 sti 3, which is currently running 440bhp to a simtek when I change the turbo setup for a rotated GT30. I like the idea of going mafless and having the option for 2 maps, flat shifting, lc and als

Banny