Remaps & "locked" ECUs
30 September 2008, 10:29 PM
#1
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Remaps & "locked" ECUs
Just found out recently (18mnths after remap) that my ECU has been "locked" so that only Ecutek mappers can alter it ie all other mappers are locked out. This is news to me & I never asked for it either ...
Just looking for views really - you aware of this etc & what do you think of it being locked without my authority?
Apparently this also happens on cars that have been PPPd.
TX.
Just looking for views really - you aware of this etc & what do you think of it being locked without my authority?
Apparently this also happens on cars that have been PPPd.
TX.
30 September 2008, 11:24 PM
#3
it's all to do with intelectual (sp) property rights......and quite right IMHO 
Bob Rawle has spent many hours mapping my car.....Turbo change, water / methanol injection etc
Why should someone else come and "steal" his maps.
Taking a map off an ECU is basically theft........there is no "lock" as such nowadays (it was different in the old days) but the map is hidden so only the licencing mapper can "see" it.
The PPP map is also the property of Prodrive (I would expect) and I would expect that they would also defend their intelectual property rights.
Shaun
Bob Rawle has spent many hours mapping my car.....Turbo change, water / methanol injection etc
Why should someone else come and "steal" his maps.
Taking a map off an ECU is basically theft........there is no "lock" as such nowadays (it was different in the old days) but the map is hidden so only the licencing mapper can "see" it.
The PPP map is also the property of Prodrive (I would expect) and I would expect that they would also defend their intelectual property rights.
Shaun
01 October 2008, 12:12 AM
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it's all to do with intelectual (sp) property rights......and quite right IMHO
Taking a map off an ECU is basically theft........there is no "lock" as such nowadays (it was different in the old days) but the map is hidden so only the licencing mapper can "see" it.
Shaun
Taking a map off an ECU is basically theft........there is no "lock" as such nowadays (it was different in the old days) but the map is hidden so only the licencing mapper can "see" it.
Shaun
01 October 2008, 08:43 AM
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I didn't think other Ecutek mappers could "see" the original mappers work on an unlocked ECU, they could just re-flash it? I thought locking was there just to prevent the use of open licence software to map the car?
Ns04
Ns04
01 October 2008, 09:21 AM
#7
Having had a PPP'd STI remapped by Andy Forrest at the start of the year this is how I understand thing.
If the car had PPP and you want it remapped by another ecutek dealer you have to pay a £150 license fee to ecutek - this is specific to Prodrive.
I now understand that any ecutek dealer can reflash the ecu with their own map without paying the £150 license.
Shaun
If the car had PPP and you want it remapped by another ecutek dealer you have to pay a £150 license fee to ecutek - this is specific to Prodrive.
I now understand that any ecutek dealer can reflash the ecu with their own map without paying the £150 license.
Shaun
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01 October 2008, 09:34 AM
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If a mapper supplies the licence and maps a car with Ecutek and then the customer decides 6 months later to get the car mapped by another Ecutek mapper he can do that. When the second mapper hooks up his laptop he will see that the car has been programed before and has the licence already on it so you only pay for the mappers time. Now the second mapper wont be able see the first mappers map anyway and will be doing his own map.
04 October 2008, 02:59 PM
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Recently? My understanding was/is that non Ecutek mappers can't get in (such as Mocom) ie they're locked out 
As someone said above perhaps it's just a case of paying £150 to get in?
Anyhoo my point is that it was not mentioned to me at the time & I feel that it should have been ...
TX.
As someone said above perhaps it's just a case of paying £150 to get in?Anyhoo my point is that it was not mentioned to me at the time & I feel that it should have been ...
TX.
04 October 2008, 03:04 PM
#12
Recently? My understanding was/is that non Ecutek mappers can't get in (such as Mocom) ie they're locked out As someone said above perhaps it's just a case of paying £150 to get in?
Anyhoo my point is that it was not mentioned to me at the time & I feel that it should have been ...
TX.
As someone said above perhaps it's just a case of paying £150 to get in?Anyhoo my point is that it was not mentioned to me at the time & I feel that it should have been ...
TX.
Not sure about the £150 to get in Zak just charged the flat £450 fee for the Map & £55 a hour everytime there's more modifications that require tweeks to it
04 October 2008, 03:11 PM
#13
You can't get in unless the Ecutek mapper who did it lets you in I believe. Options are you can either go back to him for adjustments or get another Ecutek agent to map the car at his rates. Personally open source is the way forward as long as the mappers have good reps like Simon (previously open source mapping) or Mocom
04 October 2008, 08:32 PM
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the other issue is it records when its locked and unlocked iirc, so it prevents someones map being tweeked but someone else then them being blamed for it going pop
04 October 2008, 09:31 PM
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Just ask the original mapper to put it back to standard, then start again.
Soon, but not soon enough it will be me !
DunxC
Soon, but not soon enough it will be me !
DunxC
04 October 2008, 10:47 PM
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PPP is just an EcuTEK map, Bodski's was pre 'lock' hence why it could be worked on...
...my problem was due to my ECU as there was no existing code to flash it. Colby soon wrote code to fix that
...my problem was due to my ECU as there was no existing code to flash it. Colby soon wrote code to fix that
05 October 2008, 12:16 PM
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Here lay's the issue
My neighbour is in the market for a JDM STi.
He's from a history of fast Fords and knows little about Subaru's so has asked for my help when viewing and once sourced, he wants it maintained by Mocom Racing (who do not use Ecutek's Flash tools when mapping Subaru ECU's). All his RS' and ST's have been modded so it's likely that so too will the Subaru.
Terminator has a very good example of a Spec C (I have seen it in the flesh) so I suggested this to my neighbour, everything was good until we became aware that it had been mapped by Ecutek recently enough to have the lock applied. This means Mocom Racing are unable to offer ECU support for any future modifications.
They are now as Mark has stated, Prodrive now use Ecutek's Flash software.
05 October 2008, 12:34 PM
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Unfortunately you are wrong. It can be fully removed... if you trawl the EcuTEK forums you will see this, though cannot remember the exact date they released the software.
Zak knows full well that this can be done...
Zak knows full well that this can be done...
05 October 2008, 12:41 PM
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I've just read elsewhere that both Subaru and EcuTEK dealers can flash it back to stock and the license will remain there (unless it is written over)....
This differs with other information on EcuTEK forums, but confirms that you can revert it to a state that you can flash with EcuFlash or other software....
This differs with other information on EcuTEK forums, but confirms that you can revert it to a state that you can flash with EcuFlash or other software....
Ben at Ecutek
Hello Nick,
Well, you will still have to send your ECU to your tuner so he can reflash it back to OE configuration, the EcuTeK license will stay in the ECU and will not be erased, unless you reflash over it with Open ECU. This would be out of my hands from there. We do not offer the 100% license unmariyng process because of the high risk of ECU failure.
Hello Nick,
Well, you will still have to send your ECU to your tuner so he can reflash it back to OE configuration, the EcuTeK license will stay in the ECU and will not be erased, unless you reflash over it with Open ECU. This would be out of my hands from there. We do not offer the 100% license unmariyng process because of the high risk of ECU failure.
05 October 2008, 12:46 PM
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One from 2006.... David Power - EcuTEK
EcuTeK instigated the locking of the data in the ECU as a direct response to our dealer network across the world.
Our partners (the tuners) have been concerned that their intellectual property was being copied and perhaps would be programmed into vehicles to which it was not suitable therefore causing engine failures for which they might be blamed.
This is not an attempt to hijack the ECU but simply a response to a feature request by our tuning partners who have invested a huge amount of their time and effort into development of ROM files.
We are beta testing software to our dealers which will allow the ECU to be returned completely to standard with no locking. This will mean that it can then be programmed by the dealer or other hardware. This is being released in a few days.
In the event of a dealer reflash being required on a modified car then it would be advisable for the customer to visit his tuner in the first instance. He will be able to program the ECU using the latest version of ROM file but with his changes incorporated. We do provide EcuTeK dealers with the very latest ROM files which are as up to date as anything the dealers have. This is a far safer and more sensible option, as re-flashing a modified vehicle back to standard is not advisable.
We would also advise that Trey Cobb will be incorporating the same changes as us, thus allowing programming by Cobb products over EcuTeK and vice versa.
This is in direct response to requests from his dealers and allows him to protect his work.
Our partners (the tuners) have been concerned that their intellectual property was being copied and perhaps would be programmed into vehicles to which it was not suitable therefore causing engine failures for which they might be blamed.
This is not an attempt to hijack the ECU but simply a response to a feature request by our tuning partners who have invested a huge amount of their time and effort into development of ROM files.
We are beta testing software to our dealers which will allow the ECU to be returned completely to standard with no locking. This will mean that it can then be programmed by the dealer or other hardware. This is being released in a few days.
In the event of a dealer reflash being required on a modified car then it would be advisable for the customer to visit his tuner in the first instance. He will be able to program the ECU using the latest version of ROM file but with his changes incorporated. We do provide EcuTeK dealers with the very latest ROM files which are as up to date as anything the dealers have. This is a far safer and more sensible option, as re-flashing a modified vehicle back to standard is not advisable.
We would also advise that Trey Cobb will be incorporating the same changes as us, thus allowing programming by Cobb products over EcuTeK and vice versa.
This is in direct response to requests from his dealers and allows him to protect his work.
05 October 2008, 11:40 PM
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How can you be sure, because they've posted somewhere that this is how it works, I have seen correspondance from Ecutek suggesting otherwise.
Perhaps an Ecutek rep can unlock my EcuTek mapped WRX ECU so it can be mapped by Mocom Racing, that would put an end to this confusion.
11 October 2008, 08:18 PM
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Note - I suppose the cars I'd be looking to buy would be pre-2006, so no real worries.....?
11 October 2008, 08:32 PM
#27
Missed the conclusion of this thread, can someone confirm this is the case? I plan on buying a PPP WRX or bugeye STi PPP to develop my open source mapping skills. I'd hate to find out I couldn't read the Rom if it's locked.
Note - I suppose the cars I'd be looking to buy would be pre-2006, so no real worries.....?
Note - I suppose the cars I'd be looking to buy would be pre-2006, so no real worries.....?
You can then open source map it without any worries of Ecutek licenses.
when it comes to selling the car, put it back together with the PPP ECU?
nick
11 October 2008, 09:40 PM
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Well Andy F's website has a price for mapping a licensed ECU so i guess it must be possible...
AndyForrestPerformance
"The above price is for the initial custom mapping which includes the licencing fee for the ECU. Subsequent mapping of a licenced ECU is £195+v if it my own base map or £350+v if starting with another tuners base map."
5t.
AndyForrestPerformance
"The above price is for the initial custom mapping which includes the licencing fee for the ECU. Subsequent mapping of a licenced ECU is £195+v if it my own base map or £350+v if starting with another tuners base map."
5t.
03 December 2008, 06:44 PM
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Just to dig this up again....I've just been informed that my ECU and every other Spec C that has been mapped with ECUTek, cannot be returned to a state pre-ecutek. This has now locked me out of the ECU(MY ECU!!!), to the point that I can't tune it with any of the OpenSource tools or any other tools that may or may not be available in the future. Where would I legally stand with this, I now find myself in the situation where I have to try and source a Spec C ECU, I feel like buying one then invoicing ECUTek.
03 December 2008, 07:12 PM
#30
I am sorry, but that sounds unlikely to me ... who told you that?
As far as I am aware, any ECUTek dealer should be able to remove the license and flash the model's OE map on for a nominal fee (£20 or there abouts iirc). Speak to one of the ECUTek mappers like JGM, AndyF, Zen, etc.
As far as I am aware, any ECUTek dealer should be able to remove the license and flash the model's OE map on for a nominal fee (£20 or there abouts iirc). Speak to one of the ECUTek mappers like JGM, AndyF, Zen, etc.
Last edited by STiFreak; 03 December 2008 at 07:17 PM. Reason: Add info