KINGHORN

iTrader: (1)

right folks looking for a turbo for my02 bug eye sti, i have full 3in turbo back system front mount and induction kit, currently running 340bhp at the fly witha andy f remap, want to get to 400+ i no i will need headers and injectors but what else will i need and what turbo

cheers

scoobyDAZZA

MD321H from Lateral Performance





or Andy

Andy.F

321H or 20g, I have both in stock £1250/£795

321 will make over 400 on V power, the 20G will need octane booster to see over 400 on most cars but £455 buys a lot of that

Here is a graph from a car the same age as yours that I done the other day on a 20G with booster/10%methanol. This car was on std injectors but running a fuel pressure reg to achieve the desired flow.

The lower curve was the same car on the VF35/decat (click twice to see clearer)

Alan Jeffery

Turbo dynamics MD195s will do 400 with ease and a bit of headroom to spare should you wish for more later....


VPower , no booster and at 1.4 bar boost...

Andy.F

I just don't like the lag on the 195, at 3500rpm for example the MD195 is making only 200lbft of torque, the 20G is on full boost and making 310lbft by the same rpm.
The 321H is also very similar low down to the 20G.

Edit to add, the car in my graph above still runs on a TMIC.

RS Grant

Whats the difference between the 321H and the 321T then??


Cheers,
Grant

jd5217

i used to have a 20G on my car, fantastic turbo but then the need for more came along and now have the a GT30 hybrid from Alan Jeffery - Engine Tuner as I have plans to go further.

MartynJ

We all know you can't compare Delta Dash logs with Dyno Dynamics graphs Andy so it isn't really a fair comparrison...The logs taken from the SimTek on this car show full boost from 3500rpm on the road ...
I also bet you had to run a fair bit more than 1.4 bar to achieve that amount of power from the 20G...
I will say in your defence (Not that you need it) that the 20G is a very good value for money turbo , but things have moved on...

So less lag then....?

KINGHORN

iTrader: (1)

IS THAT THE TD05 20G, im over in america in a few weeks so figured i could save my self some bucks and buy it over there, lol

jd5217

do you have the dyno graphs of my old 20g against the curent turbo Martyn?

be careful with copies, I got mine from AndyF

Andy.F

On GT spec headers the 20G made 1 bar at 2800rpm and 1.4bar at 3150rpm on the road. I'll go dig the DD log out for info.
The 195s is not new, it's an old design of turbo and I know exactly what they can do and when they do it !
The 20G in this case was running 1.5 midrange and 1.4 at the top end.

Here you go, for those not familiar with DD logs, the boost is in absolute terms so with an atmospheric pressure of 990mb then a reading of 1.99 =1.0 bar boost (gauge)



The red dot is the readout on the cursor.

Oh and I was wrong, it was actually 2811rpm it made 1 bar

MartynJ

The figures stated Andy are attained in 6th gear , applying full load at 2700rpm...By 3300rpm you have a bar of boost from the MD195s and by 3500 full boost of 1.4 bar...
I have JD's car back in now for mapping on Scottimax , I will carry out the same test again for ref purposes but would appreciate your input on how you think it should be best tested on the road....

KINGHORN

iTrader: (1)

ok still confused.

scoobyDAZZA

just buy an MD321H , you'll be happy

dunx

iTrader: (3)

I hope so !

DunxC

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

IIRC, larger compressor on the T variant. But in general, the 321H is for 2 litre engines, and the 321T for 2.5 litre. All other things being equal, before anyone starts nit-picking...


M

scoobyDAZZA

and 50 ish bhp

Andy.F

T runs the same compressor as the H

Andy

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

So what is the difference then? Or is it some sort of trade secret?


M

Northern Nick

iTrader: (1)

The 20G AndyF talks of is the one bolted to my car

I did think of a MD321H but the 20G is a reliable strong peice of kit and can take a pounding, not sure about the MD321H's.

KINGHORN

It is one of Andy's own AFP5/6 20G's and I'm very impressed. I've been in a car with an MD321H and similar other spec including 10% meth and NF, there nothing to talk of, they are identical in performance by the feel of the pants. The guy with the 321H was going to get his Delta Dashed also to compare but clutch failure posponed the run. Shame really as it would have been nice to have a comparison against the 321H.

Northern Nick

iTrader: (1)

321T is a much larger turbo, as far as I know, the only thing that is the same is the number in the name of the turbo.

321H is a 400hp turbo, a 321T is a 450+ turbo from what I've read.

Andy.F

I would normally start a run from 2000 rpm in 5th or 6th, this run started even lower but that makes no difference as nothing much happens under 2000 rpm

Hope you dont mind me using your figures from Friday Nick, they were the most recent ones I had.

Well I suppose it is kinda ! Thats the problem with so many products these days, you will always get someone stealing the idea or making a cheap copy which can ruin the products reputation.
From what I have said already though you can work out that the difference between H and T is in the turbine end

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

That's me. Nick and I run a virtually identical engine spec, except that he has a decat, whereas I run a sports cat. Given that I'm probably down about 10bhp due to the cat losses and the 321H is reputed to make around an extra 20bhp more than the 20G, the expected difference in performance between our 2 cars should be just about nil, taking into account engine to engine variations. My clutch problem appears to be temporary, so I will be heading up to see AndyF for a delta-dash run soon. I will ask Andy if he can overlay the plots from the Nick's 20G and my 321H, although I would expect them to be quite similar

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

What sports cat do you run? Oh and also, what other exhaust bits have you got?


Thanks,
Henrik

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

Hi Henrik

I'm using GT Spec tubular headers and a 3" Miltek exhaust with their 100 cell cat.
Cheers, Andrew

Northern Nick

iTrader: (1)

Not at all Andy.

KINGHORN

iTrader: (1)

i dont want to run 10% methanol so with one of andys 20g what could i expect,

cheers

andythejock01wrx

AFAIK, about 380 to 390bhp. However, I expect the man himself will be along in due course to advise.

Northern Nick

iTrader: (1)

I reckoned the meth and the nf gave my car about 30hp but I am still running a tmic so your fmic should do some compensating there I'd guess.

Probably as ATJ01WRX says, 390ish with the right bits added also.

andythejock01wrx

That's a long way for a shortcut !