Funkii Munkii

One for anyone that also made tha transition as well as the guru's

I ran a MY98 Turbo for 9 years covering 170000 miles in the process, I knew that car inside out as you can imagine, only upgrade was the Scoobysport back box at 17" alloys.

6 weeks ago I "upgraded" to a MY01 Bugeye Wagon with PPP only 35000 on the clock, one owner full service history, all the reciepts etc, very clean and tidy and perfect for another 100K

First big impression is the Wagon is a lot quieter than my classic, partly down to better sound deadening and build quality along with the Prodrive exhaust being a lot quieter than my SS, ride is also a lot smoother due to its lack of miles and 45mm tyres rather than the 40mm I had on the 98.

My issue however is engine related, the 98 was always alive and would pull in any gear even in 5th doing 90 you could feel the car go on when you planted your foot. Driving the 01 feels, well, quite unispiring uninvolving and lethargic at times.

I am not aware if the gear ratios are different from the 98 and the 01 but I just don't get the pull I used to get when accelerating, the turbo seems to come it at somewhere between 3500-4000 revs, I would comfortably change up in the 98 at 4-4.5K, I don't know when the turbo kicked in on the 98 as it was always alive in whatever gear I was in, the 01 feels like it needs to be taken up to 6k before changing up, I have never been into thrashing my scoobs, as I think the 170K 98 proved, treat them well and they'll last, and as mentioned the 98 never needed thrashing it was nimble enough.

Even with the PPP the 01 feels slower and less responsive than the 98, when accelerating in 3rd, 4th and 5th it just feels flat at certain speeds and no pull/kick in the back, maybe it is the newer engine and it requires more revs??
lastly fuel comsumption is far worse than my 98, it is really poor, one thing that struck me when buying the 01 was the owner said how he had noticed fuel comsumption markedly improve after he had the PPP fitted, now I think how bad could it have been before, I really don't expect a 98 that had done 170k and during the last 40K only had oil services to have better fuel comsumption and acceleration than a barely used 01, or am I wrong ??, with all of that said I do remember my 98 loosening up at about 52000.

I added a green cotton filter but not much improvement, my only thought is as this car was used on the rural roads of Norfolk for the school run and trips to the local shops it didn't get to stretch its legs too often. Now I know nothing about re mapping, is that what we used to call tuning ??, I feel it needs tuning, as it should be far more responsive than it is at present and I would expect similar if not better fuel comsumption as I had on the 98.

Any thoughts or advice welcome

Thanks

Dave

ZIPPY

Your 'Feelings' are correct i had a new MY96 Classic then a new RB5 WR and then a couple of years later i bought a new MY01 WRX and it didnt 'feel' the same at all compared to the classics i had.

A lot less noise but no immediate get up and go compared to the 2 previous cars, i then de-catted the complete exhaust system and it improved considerably, i then had it remapped and it was pushing 290 BHP all day every day it was after all this it became a very good car.

All the grunt you could need with comfort levels way beyond the Classic.

Mocom Racing

iTrader: (2)

One word..........weight.

The revised models are significantly heavier than the classics yet run very similar engine specs. A remap (optimisation of your ECU rather than the generic Prodrive map) would help but you're never going to get that classic feel from the go pedal without fairly substantial mods to increase the power to weight ratio.

Funkii Munkii

With regards to a remap, would it improve the fuel consumption ?? or is that just a trait of the new age cars ? also don't want to remap and thenj find out I need to upgrade all sorts of parts to cope, what is acceptable before having to upgrade ??

Thanks

SKS

As above. The bugeye put on about 150kg over the classic - fair amount of lard!
Also, if your PPP was one of the early versions it uses a 'piggy back' daughter board in the ECU rather than the generic Prodrive re-map which was used latterly (and still is). Earlier PPP was circa 245 bhp rather than 260ish bhp that the remapped PPP cars run and at low rpm it overfuelled like a ***** (I speak from experience - ran an early one for 18mths. Initially thought I'd some kind of leak!)

So in short, your power & torque to weight is a fair chunk lower than the classic hence the lack of get up and go. Also the extra weight hurts your low speed, stop/start fuel economy.

In fairness though, the bug chassis is a lot stiffer than a classic and I found that although it didn't feel as fast as my previous MY99 classic (I had 2 before my bug), I could defo cover A to B quicker because the car was easier to drive once up to speed. I found the bug was more planted and carried it's speed better on the road. After I got solid rear droplinks and an adjustable rear ARB fitted to remove the understeer it was even better.

I latterly had the PPP board removed and got a car specific remap. Night and day (and the fuel economy improved vastly!) in terms of torque spread, fueling and power delivery. Just became so much more driveable and I wished I'd done it sooner.

Just my experiences of 2 similar cars. Hope this helps you a bit with the very different feel between models you're experiencing.

Cheers,

Stewart.

SKS

Remap should improve your fuel economy and power due to the efficiencies gained from the specific setting up of your engine. This isn't a trait of new age cars but of cars that can be remapped in general. EcuTek software doesn't work on pre 00 cars (I think) hence the reason most remap chat is about later model cars.
Maximising the gains you achieve with a remap (be it bhp or mpg - you can have a car remapped for economy it's just that most of us here go the power route ) will depend on the supporting modifications you make. That would be your choice and it's really a bit of a cost/benefit/legal emissions juggling act.

E.g. remap on it's own will be approx £600 (depending on who does it) and without any harware changes would probably make similar power to a later PPP car 260-265bhp.
Changing the up-pipe for a decat (£30-£120 2nd hand - new) version and fitting an STi PPP sports cat down pipe (£200 2nd hand) along with a good panel filter (£40ish) and remapping would probably see 270-275bhp but much more midrange torque and acceleration while still being emissions legal.
Full decat (similar costs) can see about 285 bhp with terrific midrange but you need to fit cats back on for MOT time. More than that isn't really possible without a turbo change....... the mods list could go on

Of course you could try and push the mpg as far as possible - don't know if anyone on here has ever done that

Cheers,

Stewart.

Funkii Munkii

Thanks Stewart, some interesting stuff there.

The PPP is the latter model 265bhp

this sounds like all of my problems rolled into one

SKS

You're welcome Funkii. For what it's worth (£0.02 ? ) IMHO remapping isn't just about the topline figure - it's about the effect on the delivery, improved midrange and overall driveability (extra mpg is a bonus!)
Like I said, I ran a car for a while before going this route and reckonned during that time that it was a fair chunk of change for not too much more power. My reasoning was wrong. The car was just simply better after remapping.

As you can see if you view my current car, I have become a firm convert and in fact currently running 335+bhp I now enjoy the best mpg of any of my (4) Imprezas

Cheers,

Stewart.

[Davey]

FYI tyres profile are measured as an aspect ratio not in mm's

GreenTurbo98

iTrader: (1)

How do people fine the mpg of the Bug Eye compares to a MY97/98?
I get around 28-29mpg mixed driving in my MY97.

My father has a Bug Eye and found exactly that same issues highlighted. He said that driving my MY97 he found it was much more responsive and 'on the turbo' during general driving. He has found a better back box and decat centre has improved things and is about to swap the up pipe for a decat too.

richardg

loads of threads on mpg here, but mine acheives around 18-25mpg
toying with the idea of a remap for some time now but with a couple of other mods too.

bob r

iTrader: (46)

Just out of interest, what is the current situation with the classic with 170k miles - dead or alive?

Funkii Munkii

Alive and kicking, it was still flying, only ever had to replace the following, Rad at about 130K, Speed sensor at 150K and fuel pump at about 152K if I remember correctly, sold it 3 weeks ago still with original exhaust and clutch, an amazing car, I was driving it up until the day I sold it whilst the sluggish Wagon sat on the drive, I actually miss it !!

Here she is