jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

Hello there,

I have a Version 2 Subaru Impreza WRX. Currently it has a cat back exhaust and waiting to go on it a four branch equal lenght manifold and de-cat pipe, FMIC, Apexi induction kit, some injectors (not sure which ones yet, I've another thread on that) a 255Walbro fuel pump, fuel regulator and 3 port boost solenoid.

I was set on get an Apexi power Fc and commander to control it all. I'm only looking at 1.2- 1.5 bar with 300-310bhp so I thought that the Apexi would be ideal.

But just the other night I was slated about this line of thought, and told I shold go for a Scooby ECU, or a superchip or unichip, or a hydro EMS.

Now, in my mind the unichip and suprechip is a no no. As their just piggy back chips and no good, for fine tuning.

I've never heard of the hyrdo and as for the Scoobyecu why would that be any better than the Apexi? At least with the Apexi it will be new and guranteed, as Scooby ECU aren't made anymore.

Your views if you please.

ScuuBdoo

IMO the Power FC will suit what your plans are for the car.

Also, I think its the Hydra EMS your talking about. Jap Performance Magazine have used it on their Project Phoenix type RA and seem to like it.

jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

So what we thinking Apexi or Hrdra EMS? What would be the best for my car?

I don't need anything too posh, no launch control or anything like that, I only just use my car for day to day running and ocassion RS abusing.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

Cut me in half and I have ScoobyECU written right through me...but I would still recommend the Apexi power FC once you start changing injectors and want to boost beyond 1.2bar.

Currently with ScoobyECU you are using v.old technology and to a degree working partially blind when mapping, so some things are a compromise.

The Apexi just makes things a whole lot easier, plus you can remap it on the fly (if you care to). The FC commander also gives you loads of useful feedback.

What some tuners charge for fitting and mapping a ScoobyECU does doesn't compete with the Apexi PFC IMHO.

P.S You already have a 3-Port BCS on your model.

jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

P.S You already have a 3-Port BCS on your model.[/QUOTE]

You know, what I thought that, but I was told that pre-facelift Impreza's all had 2 port. Thanks for clearing that up.

So my first thoughts seem right, Apexi for easy. Allows more fine tuning, better feedback knock etc.. and allows for easy re-mapping for when those future mods occur.

Tone Loc

iTrader: (1)

You will be very lucky to get a new Apexi, the pre97 ones are no longer being produced. So if you want one start ringing round now for old stock

Tony.

PS you also say it has 'better feedback knock etc'... they do not have knock control.

silent running

Yes the big drawback with the Apexi is no knock control. Shouldn't be an issue if you get it mapped right, but if you start to get a knock problem, the Power FC will tell you about it, but not do anything about it. If you want to keep your foot down and put a hole in your piston, it'll just go right ahead and let you LOL.

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

But at least it tells you.
The OE ECU doesn't
The OE ECU only pulls timing as far as the base map. Which isn't much.

The advance map only has about 4 or 5 degrees of advance over and above the base map at full boost.
Most cars won't be running the full 4 or 5 degree'sat either, so it won't take much det to get it sitting on the base map, from that point on there is no more retard to counter further knock.

Andy.F

They are still available new from Apexi, just not to the general public/ebay sales type vendors.

Andy

jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

Sorry mate, I meant that the Apexi will give knock reading. I'm well aware it doesn't control it. But as someone else has said, that shouldn't be a problem as long as I get it mapped right.

New APEXI are still very easy to get hold of too, Ebay or direct from APEXI via UK dealers.

But guys whats the best system for my car? Would it be the APEXI or is there a better system? My thinking is the Hydra isn't really worth the extra money.

Is there another better system?

edmy716

hydra is the one to go for!! knock control is one of its key features!
Tracktive Solutions - Hydra

jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

Is it better in any other area's? As long as I get it mapped properly I'm not too worried about knock.

Also does it come with a version of the commander s I can play on the go, or look at the car's readings as they happen refering to knock, boost, fuel etc.. as I can with the Apexi commander?

jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

Bugger me!!!!!!! (no not an offer)

I've just been quoted £1195 for the Hydra, even on Ebay it was £950!!

Anyone know where I can get it around the £500 as with the Apexi. If not I think the price has it, and I'll go for the Apexi as planned.

edmy716

alot better in all areas. no need for the dreaded maf. knock control. launch. anti-lag. nos maps. u can even take to ur next car!

no it doesnt come with a version of a commander so u can play whilst driving, as ur meant to be driving and enjoying ur car! u can plug in with ur laptop and data log etc.

you pay for what u get!! u cant take u apexi to ur next car!! and u may get apexi for 500 then u have to pay to have it installed and mapped theres ur grand!!!

jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

Is the Hydra as easy to get mapped as the APEXI?

Will it cost as much to get mapped?

I've been quoted £250 for the installation of the APEXI and first map, thereafter £75 for every additional map.

Do you thing the Hydra would demand the same sort of costs for mapping?

MartynJ

You should also look into the Simtek ECU...
Similar spec to the Hydra (ie no maf) closed loop boost and lambda control , gear based boost control and all this at Apexi money....

edmy716

hope this helps

jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

See now I'm well confused. Simtek ECU, Hydra and Apexi.

Hydra has knock control and is transferable, but costs loads. It has loads of fancy gadets but to be honest I don't think I's used them. I'm not a track day racer so I don't thingk it would be worth it.

APEXI has the commander so I can look at the cars readings after a good run, but it's not as tuneable as the Hydra. It is however cheap, and simply to work with but it can't be transferred to another car.

The Simtek, well from what little I've just done on it, it seems to be the same as the APEXI but has the advantage of removing the MAF alway a good thing when running a induction kit. But it seems to be a pain to map, and has no real time recording abilty which the APEXI has.

Decisions, decisions

edmy716

like i said m8, i know the hydra seems expensive at first but is definately not in long term, i understand u may not use some of the hydra functions but u never know u may do in the future.

entirely upto u i know money plays a big part, its a bummer!!

hope all goes well whichever u choose.

Andy.F

What do you mean, Apexi not as tuneable ? Would my car go faster on a Hydra
Best check the price to swap a hydra between different types of car too, by the time you add in the breakout loom and remapping then I recon it would be much cheaper to sell your Apexi secondhand and then buy a new one !

Andy

ps Simtek ? is that the same as Sigma ?

jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

By tuneable, I mean not as many options, such as launch control and knock control etc....

I think your right though stripping out the ECU each time would add up. I think I'd probably sell the car with it all install anyway, and buy a new ECU for the next car (if that ever happens) as technology moves on and in some many years time a new better ecu would be out.

I think APEXI is still my favorite,and what I'll end up going for.

Andy.F

I had someone PM me very recently, he was quoted "almost half the original install price" to change his Hydra from one car to another.

911

Have an AndyF installed/mapped Apexi in my road/hill climb 380 x 370 Sti v3.
3 years in now and solid as a rock.
Works every time, delivers the goods and is 'fit and forget'.

For me a wise reliable investment.

Mind you, the mapper makes a difference to!

Graham

edmy716

he pm'd me also and 400 quid tbh isnt unreasonable as the looms are 150!!

Alan Jeffery

Just been informed by the designer that the Simtek ecu now has a simple excel style dataloging facility and is still undergoing many software changes...

james-wrx

Sorry to hijack this thread, why can you only run Scoobyecu up to 1.2 bar ?
Thanks

borat52

Think its the limit of the standard MAP sensor on a pre-facelift. However I have heard that Andy from ESL ran 1.4 bar with boost cut removed on one of his chips with the aid of a boost controller, I'm probably in for about a million replies from others saying they have run above 1.2bar by this means now!

Andy.F

The Apexi ECU has the boost control strategy on board to run up to 2.2 bar of boost, with 4 separate 'in-car' adjustable boost settings all running full closed loop control. It retains an overboost safety cut at each level.
The limiting factor on the 93-96 cars is the original subaru map sensor which is limited to 1.2 bar output signal. Either replace the sensor with the later type or other higher range type such as the GM sensor. This sensor swap also applies to the OE ECU as long as you can recalibrate the wastegate tables.

Andy

gatecrasher3

I didn't realise Pre-96 PFC's had been discontinued. I am glad I got one last year and even happier that it was mapped by Andy F! I don't know about the Hydra option but can confirm that the PFC perfoms without fault and I am more than happy with it.

jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

I think I'm gonna go for the APEXI. Andy F can I ask where abouts are you, you seem to be the man to map the old girl, do you work for a garage somewhere?

Whats the best route re the MAF? replace with later model or get the GM version? or does it not matter?