Neilo

Can anybody tell me what the best turbos out there really are?

im looking for something that has the capacity too push enough air for 420bhp on a 2.0 engine (no i wouldnt run the car at that, the target is around 360 ish). Im not overly bothered about excessive lag....as long as its spooled to 1 bar by 3500ish...

any thoughts?

my initial thoughts were for a TD05/06 20g but would be interested to hear of any alternatives that are out there....

This will be married to a frontmount IC (most likely an APS unit) so plenty of air should get to it! I currently have an APS SR30 but i think that the car is capable of handling much more (as i dont use the car everyday)

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

scoobymania are selling a nice hybrid version of garret turbo's there is a SBRgt10 turbo capable of 400bhp and i have spoken to american company about supplying and porting one and they reckon it will make 1.5 bar at 3400rpm easily. but what the turbo is like im unsure

morpheous

iTrader: (9)

Try here m8

http://www.andyforrestperformance.co.uk/16307.html

Enough said

Fuzz

not quite enough said..

Personally I'd have a word with Bob Rawle or Branko from www.brdevelopments.com and ask for the same turbo Fuzz has got.
Turbo Dynamics Garrett 60 A/R housing welded to an IHI housing, direct bolt on jobby with all the fittings and then free mapping afterwards (well free as in it's included in the price)


Andy

Neilo

well i would get bob to do the mapping anyway as he did a fab job on my current one

john banks

TD05/06-20G won't easily do 420 BHP on Optimax, but an 18G is enough to do 360 BHP on Optimax, and a 16G can do it with octane booster.

420 BHP on Optimax is TD06-20G territory, or a Garrett hybrid.

Noble as it is to fit a turbo bigger than you need as a nod towards reliability, all you will be doing is making it laggy, and an EJ20 is not exactly blessed with factory short manifold and twin scroll turbines on all recent models like the 4G63.

360 BHP on a 2.0 is a completely different ball game to 420 BHP on 2.0, and a heck of a lot more pleasant to drive IMHO.

Personally, I wouldn't go beyond TD05-18G on a 2.0, and I would suggest careful thought before going beyond a TD05 or 06 20 G on a 2.5. Your car may feel faster but the boost threshold could be irritating and you might just find yourself going slower.

Built engines and drag racers are different.

Bear in mind, where you get 1 bar in a high gear with a hot manifold is very different to where you get it in 2nd gear with a cold one. Even if you want to drag race, the 16Gs are doing 12.1 quarters on the best cars on street rubber on standard UK engines.

Fuzz

1 BAR at 3200 on mine.
1.5 all day, all the way to the red line, you change gear before the thing stops pulling.


Andy

Neilo

id only run above 1.4 bar once i had some strengthened pistons...

Fuzz

Somehow my UK 2000 is still in one piece at 34,000 miles of abuse (6,000 of those being just under the 400 barrier.)

Race fuel saw it at 448 last month and i don't drive it steady.

Andy

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Neilo, you really have got it bad Have you been in a 360 real HP mota? Do you need that much? As JB says getting the power delivery right can mean a lesser powered car could drive a hell of a lot better than a dyno queen mota.

Are you going to drag race this car? Or track it?

F

Neilo

track yes, drag yes, as much as i do now

remember that 360 in a newage is less rapid than 360 in something like yours remember....its just getting a bit annoying having to strip out half the car to make it more of a match for you light classicers

(and yes ive got it bad)

Neilo

oh and dont get me wrong, i do enjoy a well balanced car with little or no lag, but by the same notion something with a little more lag isnt really going to be affected on the track too much...as youd generally keep it well in the power band anyway.

john banks

Also consider that what a heavier car really doesn't need is lag.... 1.5 tons of metal, fat band of acceleration and 2 litres don't go together on a single turbo single scroll engine with metres of manifold. It is even worse if you can't rev the thing to beyond 8000 RPM.

Neilo

id better loose some weight then

john banks

Cubes and revs will help also.

Pavlo

There is no "best" turbo, there is only the "right" turbo.

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Neilo

and the right turbo is......?

R19KET

And the "Right" turbo, would be the one you enjoy driving the best, regardless of what us lot say.

But, as has been said, having a turbo capable of 420bhp, some 60bhp more than you want 360bhp, is a little pointless.

Unless, you deside you want a little more


Mark.

RON

this one

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=437234

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Neilo when you find out let me Know,

Neilo

could be a while alan....

oh and RON, if youve still got it at christmas, gimme a shout

Pavlo

You have to work out what you want from the car. Generally the more power you want, the more lag you will have to put up with. First try to define your power target, and then you will need to look for a turbo that supports the total power. If your power target is 350hp for instance, then a TD05 hybrid using a larger compressor (of some sort) would be good, something like an 18g for instance.

If you want to spend some more money, then you can look at some of the Garret based offerings, but be careful, there are many combinations and they don't all deliver what they promise. In fact I think the best way to do it is with a dedicated up and down pipe, with external wastegate, even if you're only after 450hp rather than the 500+ levels often associated with these turbos.

Getting the most out of your existing turbo will pay divedends too, as it means you don't need to overspec the turbo to get the power you want. So this means the right heads, exhaust, headers intercooler etc.

Paul

Neilo

I have to say that i am wondering how much power can be extracted from my existing APS unit.....i think the general understanding is around the 340bhp mark.

Can power be vastly affected by using a 2.5" pipe over a 3"? the reason i ask is that the car this turbo came off was running 345 @ 1.2bar (with a full APS 3" exhaust and aps intercooler)

mine however is running around 300 @ 1.3 bar, with a full 2.5" H&S with STI intercooler....

however the turbo does spool nicely having 1bar at about 2800.....

john banks

2.5" is fine for at least up to mid-high 300s BHP. I did not gain any power or torque going from 2.5 to 3" on a maxxed out 20G on a 2.0.

I've been disappointed with the few SR30s I've played with. Feel like a VF35 but cost a lot more.

Neilo

Im beginning to agree with you john, hence this thread really....im not doubting that its a decent enough turbo, but like you say, i could probably get a VF35 and get similar or better results for half the money!

I think from reading the responses to this thread though that i will probably ebb towards an 18g as aposed to the 20g, as much as i like the idea of 400bhp, i doubt is notice much difference over a car with 350-360....

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

360bhp - would you need to upgrade any internals?

Plenty of Turbo's will give you this - there should be quite a few around.

You cant really answer 'which is best' as the best Turbo for someone may not be the best for someone else. Given that I currently drive a 2004 WRX and an sti5 (with the same Turbo Fuzz has) I find the lag on the 2004 WRX far greater (and my wife agrees), and its a much smaller Turbo..... but thats the crappy gearbox ratio's in the UK WRX

If you are going to be doing a few Rolling Roads ? and want a definate 360bhp then you will need one with more power than this - there are so many people who get SO disappointed with the power achieved by their Turbo's on various Roling Roads and this includes APS, TD05/20G and many others I'm sure (I'm one of those..........) that to guarantee on say optimax I'd want one to be specced at least 400bhp

Fuzz - 3200 is impressive - mine achieves 1 bar at about 3700/3800 although Bob Rawle always did say mine was laggier than many he'd seen - maybe it has slightly different cam profiles?

On plain Optimax I'd be wanting to fit the Fuzz Turbo 323s or 321s from Turbo Dyanmics - no overboost issues, can achieve the 360bhp on Optimax at about 1.4-1.5 Bar........

and then you have the flexibility to try and get more power, which YOU WILL want

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Neilo what mods are you currently running and where did you get your bhp/ft-lb figures from..?

Only asking as I think you have similar mods to me, only I don't know my output's, not that I'm particularly bothered with figures as I'm currently very pleased with performance. Just curious..!

Pavlo

for 360hp the 18g would be top of my list

Neilo

My car currently runs an APS SR30 turbo, STI 505cc injectors, STI topmount, full decat, and BRD remap at 1.4 bar although it seems to peak at 1.27-1.3 at the mo.....

i didnt think you had changed your turbo too?

my figs are guestimated from a previous map of 295bhp/282lbft that this one is a fair bit stronger than. It will be tested on the 17th to know a bit better.

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

No your right, I have std TD04 turbo, although it makes ~1.35 bar at the moment (actually gauge shows just over 1.4bar peak but it over reads a little according to BobR) and thats at a tad over 3k..! Spool up is almost instant, feels very quick

Out of interest, std injectors/fuel pump, however IDC is nowhere near max.

Where you getting RR, let me know how you get on..!