TD05 into a UK MY98
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From: herts....
Originally Posted by stevebt
it will need a remap to get the turbo pulling early enuf, or you will have lag till about 4500rpm 
i have a 99/00 car and i ripped a TEK3 ecu out to put apexi in 
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From: 32 cylinders and many cats
FUEL:
Fuel pump and AFR meter should allow you to get enough fuel to have some fun, keep the narrowband lambda voltage over 0.9V on full load (0.89 could be too lean) to be safe, but ideally check with a wideband, LSU4 kits are cheapish these days. If the induction system is not messing up the MAF readings and you don't max out the 380cc injectors it should fuel OK. You could turn up the fuel pressure and rely on the lambda sensor to pull it down enough in cruise areas if you are maxxing out the injectors.
BOOST:
A Dawes MBC could control the boost quite nicely, +- a zener diode to sort the fuel cut.
IGNITION:
This is the big problem. You can monitor knock just fine with a knocklink, but to get the most out of the TD05 you'll have too much ignition timing on full boost. The standard maps are based around a small turbo running low boost. There is no really good method without an ECU or piggyback device such as an S-ITC. You could run higher octane by using NF octane booster. You could increase the MAF voltage with an S-AFC which will richen and retard, but only up to the end stops on the map where the timing still plateaus a bit high. With a 99- car you could use Delta Dash to knock off up to 5 degrees timing until the next battery disconnection or ECU reset. You may be able to do this on earlier cars with a select monitor. The Delta Dash method is quite good on the 99-.
If all this means nothing to you, just get an Apexi PowerFC as mentioned, this is most suitable for 99% of people.
Fuel pump and AFR meter should allow you to get enough fuel to have some fun, keep the narrowband lambda voltage over 0.9V on full load (0.89 could be too lean) to be safe, but ideally check with a wideband, LSU4 kits are cheapish these days. If the induction system is not messing up the MAF readings and you don't max out the 380cc injectors it should fuel OK. You could turn up the fuel pressure and rely on the lambda sensor to pull it down enough in cruise areas if you are maxxing out the injectors.
BOOST:
A Dawes MBC could control the boost quite nicely, +- a zener diode to sort the fuel cut.
IGNITION:
This is the big problem. You can monitor knock just fine with a knocklink, but to get the most out of the TD05 you'll have too much ignition timing on full boost. The standard maps are based around a small turbo running low boost. There is no really good method without an ECU or piggyback device such as an S-ITC. You could run higher octane by using NF octane booster. You could increase the MAF voltage with an S-AFC which will richen and retard, but only up to the end stops on the map where the timing still plateaus a bit high. With a 99- car you could use Delta Dash to knock off up to 5 degrees timing until the next battery disconnection or ECU reset. You may be able to do this on earlier cars with a select monitor. The Delta Dash method is quite good on the 99-.
If all this means nothing to you, just get an Apexi PowerFC as mentioned, this is most suitable for 99% of people.
Originally Posted by john banks
FUEL:
Fuel pump and AFR meter should allow you to get enough fuel to have some fun, keep the narrowband lambda voltage over 0.9V on full load (0.89 could be too lean) to be safe, but ideally check with a wideband, LSU4 kits are cheapish these days. If the induction system is not messing up the MAF readings and you don't max out the 380cc injectors it should fuel OK. You could turn up the fuel pressure and rely on the lambda sensor to pull it down enough in cruise areas if you are maxxing out the injectors.
BOOST:
A Dawes MBC could control the boost quite nicely, +- a zener diode to sort the fuel cut.
IGNITION:
This is the big problem. You can monitor knock just fine with a knocklink, but to get the most out of the TD05 you'll have too much ignition timing on full boost. The standard maps are based around a small turbo running low boost. There is no really good method without an ECU or piggyback device such as an S-ITC. You could run higher octane by using NF octane booster. You could increase the MAF voltage with an S-AFC which will richen and retard, but only up to the end stops on the map where the timing still plateaus a bit high. With a 99- car you could use Delta Dash to knock off up to 5 degrees timing until the next battery disconnection or ECU reset. You may be able to do this on earlier cars with a select monitor. The Delta Dash method is quite good on the 99-.
If all this means nothing to you, just get an Apexi PowerFC as mentioned, this is most suitable for 99% of people.
Fuel pump and AFR meter should allow you to get enough fuel to have some fun, keep the narrowband lambda voltage over 0.9V on full load (0.89 could be too lean) to be safe, but ideally check with a wideband, LSU4 kits are cheapish these days. If the induction system is not messing up the MAF readings and you don't max out the 380cc injectors it should fuel OK. You could turn up the fuel pressure and rely on the lambda sensor to pull it down enough in cruise areas if you are maxxing out the injectors.
BOOST:
A Dawes MBC could control the boost quite nicely, +- a zener diode to sort the fuel cut.
IGNITION:
This is the big problem. You can monitor knock just fine with a knocklink, but to get the most out of the TD05 you'll have too much ignition timing on full boost. The standard maps are based around a small turbo running low boost. There is no really good method without an ECU or piggyback device such as an S-ITC. You could run higher octane by using NF octane booster. You could increase the MAF voltage with an S-AFC which will richen and retard, but only up to the end stops on the map where the timing still plateaus a bit high. With a 99- car you could use Delta Dash to knock off up to 5 degrees timing until the next battery disconnection or ECU reset. You may be able to do this on earlier cars with a select monitor. The Delta Dash method is quite good on the 99-.
If all this means nothing to you, just get an Apexi PowerFC as mentioned, this is most suitable for 99% of people.
you have got to admit an umapped TD05 wont achieve proper boost in an un mapped ecu and the lag is going to be 
You could increase the MAF voltage with an S-AFC which will richen and retard
there is also the ECUTEK option from power engineering
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I ran a TD05 on my 97 Uk turbo for around 12 months on the standard ECU without any problems at all.
You need to monitor for knock, so a knocklink is essential. I also used Lambdalink and EGT gauge to monitor the fuelling side of things, so it wasn't just a flying blind exercise.
I have since had a remap to the Apexi Power FC and the difference is very pronounced. The car is much more responsive.
I would disagree with steve to a point that the lag is definately "there" on the standard ECU, but it's not quite as bad as he's making out. Maybe he's exaggerating a bit, but I was seeing a bar of boost at around 3800rpm which is laggy but not ridiculous I don't think. Also Ecutek isn't an option for you on a 98 car.
Off boost though the car was poor and if someone caught you in the wrong gear you were in trouble, but Andy F did a lot to make the car livelier off boost. Boost now comes in quicker (1 bar is now seen by around 3000) and boost builds much quicker than it did before, so much so that in the wet, it will break traction even in a straight line sometimes, which is fun.
I run the car on Optimax with 2 bottles of Millers per fillup and always have.
Boost is now set at 1.4 bar via an HKS EVC5 boost con which is also what I used on the OEM ECU which I also ran 1.4 on, although sometimes in 5th I can see nearly 1.5.
Andy kept things sensible as I am still on a standard UK box which is obvioulsy a weak area, but the car is driven every day and often hard.
Knock activity is much reduced since the remap too. On the OEM I would often see 1 yellow, but now the most I ever see is 1 green. That is on the standard 380 injectors, albeit at higher fuel pressure.
Rich
You need to monitor for knock, so a knocklink is essential. I also used Lambdalink and EGT gauge to monitor the fuelling side of things, so it wasn't just a flying blind exercise.
I have since had a remap to the Apexi Power FC and the difference is very pronounced. The car is much more responsive.
I would disagree with steve to a point that the lag is definately "there" on the standard ECU, but it's not quite as bad as he's making out. Maybe he's exaggerating a bit, but I was seeing a bar of boost at around 3800rpm which is laggy but not ridiculous I don't think. Also Ecutek isn't an option for you on a 98 car.
Off boost though the car was poor and if someone caught you in the wrong gear you were in trouble, but Andy F did a lot to make the car livelier off boost. Boost now comes in quicker (1 bar is now seen by around 3000) and boost builds much quicker than it did before, so much so that in the wet, it will break traction even in a straight line sometimes, which is fun.
I run the car on Optimax with 2 bottles of Millers per fillup and always have.
Boost is now set at 1.4 bar via an HKS EVC5 boost con which is also what I used on the OEM ECU which I also ran 1.4 on, although sometimes in 5th I can see nearly 1.5.
Andy kept things sensible as I am still on a standard UK box which is obvioulsy a weak area, but the car is driven every day and often hard.
Knock activity is much reduced since the remap too. On the OEM I would often see 1 yellow, but now the most I ever see is 1 green. That is on the standard 380 injectors, albeit at higher fuel pressure.
Rich
Last edited by RICH WILD; Jan 14, 2005 at 10:59 AM.
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From: 32 cylinders and many cats
Steve, yes I would use an S-AFC, in fact I'm planning it for a 2.5 20G conversion on a Legacy with the OEM ECU. With a bit of thought and knowledge you can do astonishing things without remapping.
You can get a 99/00 on the standard ECU to spool up a TD05 to 1 bar by 3000 RPM with a Dawes, don't see why other years should be different.
By adjusting fuel pressure and MAF voltage you can influence the ignition timing and fuelling to some degree separately.
If you can retard the timing as I mentioned you can get stunning results, SiHethers did this with his VF34 and I've looked over his fuelling, ignition and boost plots and it is setup really well.
Remember Andy F ran 11s on a standard ECU.
I ran a TD04 hybrid at 21 PSI on a standard ECU, I ran multiple setups around knockhill with piggyback devices and they worked well and reliably.
An ECU is the practical and elegant solution for most, but don't believe remotely it is the only one. Even more so if you have an ECU that is mapped for the original turbine wheel that you are keeping.
You can get a 99/00 on the standard ECU to spool up a TD05 to 1 bar by 3000 RPM with a Dawes, don't see why other years should be different.
By adjusting fuel pressure and MAF voltage you can influence the ignition timing and fuelling to some degree separately.
If you can retard the timing as I mentioned you can get stunning results, SiHethers did this with his VF34 and I've looked over his fuelling, ignition and boost plots and it is setup really well.
Remember Andy F ran 11s on a standard ECU.
I ran a TD04 hybrid at 21 PSI on a standard ECU, I ran multiple setups around knockhill with piggyback devices and they worked well and reliably.
An ECU is the practical and elegant solution for most, but don't believe remotely it is the only one. Even more so if you have an ECU that is mapped for the original turbine wheel that you are keeping.
Last edited by john banks; Jan 14, 2005 at 11:11 AM.
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