Elmer Fudpucker

286 bhp with 289 torque if my conversions from kilowatts and newton meters is correct





Can't be down to heatsoak at this time of year surely

but whats more concerning is that my friends stock 04 WRX made a healthy 255 bhp,sugesting that these particular rollers were a little over generous when handing out the results!!

Jon

ex-webby

It seems to be the norm mate from what has been reported.

Please remember though that the PPP is 305ps, which is 300bhp and 405nm which is 300(ish) lb/ft. Your figures along with others dont sound too far out using a rolling road. Your on about a difference of about 3% which is nothing tbh.

Regards,
Shaun.

Elmer Fudpucker

Also in 'real world' driving conditions.Not only is my colleagues non PPP WRX a nicer(read less hectic) car to drive, it is also in no way any noticeably slower than my STi avec the PPP

Jon

ex-webby

Can you post your power graph up?

Regards,
Shaun.

marklemac

Jon,

Best mine ever made on rollers was 289/285. Inlet temps/heat soak are the cause, as the prodrive map has a lot more 'safety' features built in and will pull the car back if it sees high temps, unlike the the standard ecu which doen't seem to care.

Thats why standard WRX's/STI's produce good results and PPP's are usually down.

Get it remapped and you'll be very happy

Andy.F

Looking at the pic there is no way your TMIC is getting much cooling air through it, this will kill the power reading and it may take some time for the ECU to readjust to 'normal' running again.

Correct me if I'm wrong but is that car not tied down ?

Andy

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Andy is right there, the scoop on the bonnet is there for a reason
You are suppose to close the bonnet when you do a run (not fully though) so that the air can go though the scoop and onto the intercooler.
Also running without straps is pretty dangerous, thats why they are strapped in so that if anything happens the car wont fly off the rollers

Tony

"MADDOG"

iTrader: (3)

AndyF, I saw that , just lucky it did not jump off the rollers

regards "MADDOG"

Elmer Fudpucker

Well all I can say to that is that it had a bigger blower on it than the one at Powerstation and they don't strap the cars down either.

Elmer Fudpucker

Hi Mark

well I was considering selling it,but I am now going to go down the re-map
route

There is a well respected remapper just across the border in Holland,Mark Verhoeven?

Problem is he doesn't answer his fone or respond to e-mails

Jon

Nathan L

Remind me not to go there.

Elmer Fudpucker

I think this pic illustrates the size of the blower



believe me that thing was chucking out Hurricane Hannah

thats why no-one is stood around the car...they all got blown outside

Jon

Elmer Fudpucker

I can see this thread turning to rat **** now,

the 'little knowlege is a dangerous thing' brigade have arrived

Nathan L

FWIW I was referring to Powerstation, the JDM STi has a nasty habit of trying to launch itself off the rollers even with 3 people in the back and 2 straps either side. Don't take everything so personally.

The bonnet should have been down so the air was directed straight through the intercooler. With the bonnet open it just blows around everything, following the path of least resistance.

Regards

Nathan..

Elmer Fudpucker

Yeah but with my power figures,the car would struggle to get out of its own waylet alone launch itself of the rollers and thro a brick wall

I fail to see how a rotating mass running on rollers can try to throw itself of tho,unless its incorrectly set up of course.

you wouldn't enjoy my job very much then

I regulary have to balance marine turbochargers,some weighing in excess of 2 tons....similar principle,shaft running on rollers at about 1000 rpm

...ain't had one of them come off yet(he says,furiously rubbing a rabbits foot)

jon

Nathan L

ROFL

No I don't think I'd like to do your job pushing pencils is fine by me . I tend to hide round the corner when they run my car just in case. Besides the noise at 8000rpm makes me think the car is going to self destruct

I don't know how it tries to climb out but when the torque cuts in the car just seems to overtake the rollers

Can't you bring the car back over and get someone like Darth Rawle to map it?

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

Alright Jon, Ive still got the silencer on

fwiw, powerstation do strap down the front of the car, I was there a couple of weeks ago.

Andy

Davey P

iTrader: (1)

Mine has always been strapped down when I have gone there.

Nathan L

I'm glad that one's been cleared up.

Elmer Fudpucker

somebody back me up here please

Nathan L

Anyway, back to the topic as I appear to be one of the guilty parties taking it off

Don't you come back to the UK fairly often?

Could you coincide a visit over to get Darth Rawle to map it?

ex-webby

I keep hearing this heat soak issue, but it would be interesting for someone to actually find out at what inlet temps the ignition is being retarded at, so that it could be cross referenced with the actual inlet temps on the power run (just to make sure we are talking apples and apples).

Regards,
Shaun.

Andy.F

The ECU is not measuring charge temp (after intercooler) just the air inlet temperature pre turbo, from this it makes certain assumptions, one of those is that at an indicated 100mph on the speed sensor it assumes 100mph of air blast through the intercooler. On the rollers you may be lucky to get 20 mph air blowing across the top of the I/C (not forced through it) This has the effect of increasing charge temperatures which in turn makes the engine less efficient and more prone to detonation (knock), when the ECU detects knock it retards the timing, making it even less efficient, it's a vicious downward spiral regards the power reading.

Some rolling roads make a realy good effort to cool tmics, recently at Dastek my charge temp was only 2 degrees above the normal road temp and that was running 1.8 bar boost. (dedicated centrifugal tmic fan in addition to main fan)

Andy

Butty

iTrader: (2)

The recent WR1 shoot-out showed almost all cars to match Prodrives figures, yet the IC set-up is identical to the STi.
Unless Clives RR has an unusual blower, what is it about the WR1 that may be different to the STi (less sensitive knock control?)
A second comment is that I've run alongside STi PPPs on a couple of shootout days with my mine and other WRX PPPs. The STis have problems yet the WRX PPPs get book figures. We're all experiencing the same RR conditions so again, is the STi knock control too tight?

Nick

MikeWood

Butty

The difference at the WR1 shootout was that I made sure all the cars started with an intake system that was as cool as we could make it. Bear in mind that our packages are designed to run well on the road where intake temps are generally a couple of degrees above ambient. On the dyno it is impossible to get near this, no matter how big your fan is. Clive would be the first to say that his fan struggles a bit to keep the intercooler temps down and this was backed up by the reduced figures on second and subsequent runs.

A small amount of correction is applied from between 30C and 50C upwards in most PPP maps along with reduced boost above 90C water temp.

Mike

Elmer Fudpucker

MikeWood

Elmer

Those are typical plots where everything is too warm and the ECU is pulling out timing in response to detonation, particularly around 6000rpm. Resetting the ECU will help by removing this learnt negative ignition correction.

Mike

Elmer Fudpucker

Thanks very much for that Mike

...saves me trying to fit this


should be good for 2500hp


Think the 90° elbow could cause some probs


Jon

Nathan L

Buwhahahahahahahahaha

You have got to put that in the members gallery

ex-webby

Elmer,
I would also suggest that the HP (or KW in your case) at the flywheel & Torque has been incorrectly calculated via the rolling road you have used. Based on Physics the HP & TORQUE MUST cross at 5252rpm..... as it does on Prodrives Power Graph on their site.

What was the HP at the wheels?

Regards,
Shaun.