john banks

Paul I am going for a VF23 with similar objectives to you. I am trying to get one from a breakers, which was possibly a bad idea as the first one was poo.

Read a few books on turbos and you'll be set. Corky Bell Maximum Boost is good, as is Julian Edgar 21st Century Performance. Both from Amazon (cheaper and quicker from Amazon.com rather than .co.uk).

[Edited by john banks - 7/2/2002 10:34:23 PM]

paulwadams_my99

ok thanks john. How u doing?

Would you mind just briefly stating why you are going for that rather than another bigger hybrid? Is cost a factor in it?

Cheers

Paul.

[Edited by paulwadams_my99 - 7/2/2002 10:37:42 PM]

paulwadams_my99

Ive just got my fmic and am on track to remap my ecu etc. Before this happens I want to upgrade my turbo and have been recommended various things by various people. Trouble is that I cant seem to find much technical data on the net about these so that I can get myself up to speed before making a decision.

One of the recomendations made to me is a VF23, and althought i am sure this is capable of doing the job i dont know what it drives like (depending on mods obviously), what the maximum boost it can hold etc. I have to be honest, i dont even really know when/if i get any technical documentation if i'll be able to make any sense of it but i feel like i must make an attempt to research it so i feel confident i have made the right decision when i do.

Another choice, which i am swayed to simply by high recomendations, is a hybrid that will basically achieve what i want and hold for the immediate future. What are the kinds of technical questions I should be asking about the performance of this turbo?

Please can those in the know enlighten me or point me to a source of infomation?

The car is a uk my99 btw.

Thank you

Paul.

john banks

Cost. £300 from a breakers, if I manage to get one that does not have dodgy bearings or seals. If not I might go the TD05 route since Mr Forrest will give me a hand

And a VF23 with a manifold and UK gears really is big enough, arguably it might be a bit high on the old boost threshold.

For a road car the TD04L hybrid I have presently is ace - with exhaust and the right mapping less laggy than a PPP!

paulwadams_my99

john im in chat if you can get in there?

annointed

http://www.mrtrally.com.au/shop/search_result.asp?CATEGORY=Turbo&MANUFACTURER=ALL& DESCRIPTION=&PRODUCT_ID=

They also have a VF series turbo comparison PDF sheet somewhere, but I couldn't find it. But Page two will start a comparison of several VF series turbos including the VF23

mark

FASTER MIKE!!

try this page too
www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/docs/turbo-data.pdf

regards mike

annointed

That's the page, Mike! lol. Thanks.

paulwadams_my99

Ahh thats good stuff,

Thank you Mike, Mark and John.

Paul

Jolly Green Monster 2

So are the TD05 turbos a good point to start then?

Have a MY96 UK which has the TD05 as standard?!?!

Intend modding but currently standard boost and exhaust etc...

Or is the combination of the newer engine and a TD05 a good combination?

Future plans when money allows in current order of preference :
ITG Panel filter
New exhaust system from turbo back to remove cats
Sti intercooler or FMIC.
Up the boost.

I know Rich Wilds car is running high BHP with same engine and TD05....

JGM

annointed

The TD05-16G that you have is a kick *** street turbo that flows 505 cfm. According to DSMers, the small 16G compressor wheel loses efficiency over 18 psi, while the big 16G wheel (the Evo 3 turbo, which flows 550 cfm) is more efficient over 18 psi. Just as turbo upgrade options, any good DSM shop can swap a big 16 or an 18G wheel into the turbo if you want to run big boost and 400+ bhp. You will experience a little more lag, but these Mitsubishi turbos are among the most reliable on the market (especially compared with IHI's).

Jolly Green Monster 2

Which prompts the question... why did Subaru go onto use the VF series?? rather than sticking with TD05?

JGM

john banks

Try finding a straight second hand VF turbo and you'll be sure they should have stuck with the Mitsubishi turbos

Jolly Green Monster 2

Who makes the VF?

I know and as stated already the TD05's are Mitsubishi.

JGM

john banks

IHI.

annointed

Its my understanding that Subaru switched from the TD05 to the smaller Mitsubishi TD04 on its WRX's and IHI VF series turbos on the STi's because they wanted a turbo that comes on as early as possible. The TD05 hits very hard in the mid and top range (3500+ RPM). This brutal hit is considered characteristic of the early WRX's, while the later ones are considered to deliver smooth power starting down low, which is what the average Joe prefers. But the TD05 has more tuning potential than the tiny TD04, and is more reliable than the IHI turbos, so its a nice compromise. My friends have learned to brace themselves for the turbo hit around 3500 RPM's...I keep telling them to just wait until the TD05-18G goes in! It'll feel like we're rear ended by a mack truck!

Jolly Green Monster 2

Makes sense.

For my the TD05 suits perfectly.. I can drive it really slowly with the family on board or when going long distances and keep the rpm low and it used less fuel (sometimes seen 30mpg) and then when I want to drive like a loon the TD05 wakes up and it is hell for leather.. like having two cars in one.. although it does notice big time that there is a lag when you slow for a bend for example and put you foot back on the loud pedal and the revs have just dropped 200rpm out of the turbo.. but hopefully air filter and exhaust mods should sort that out. In the mean time I just keep the revs higher..

Good to know that the TD05 is a good work horse then..

JGM

john banks

However, some with straight entry TD05 get big boost at 2800.

Jolly Green Monster 2

Which have the straight entry?

Being a MY96 I assumed mine is a bent entry (ooeeer) as boost is about 3000rpm or maybe 3200rpm it must be a bent one.

JGM

annointed

ie, Andy F/Cossie Convert, among others? I definitely need to do this mod, as I have full boost at 3300 RPM, and that's with a 3" turbo back, standalone management, AVC-R boost controller, and a ported turbo-exhaust housing...

IIRC, Andy runs 26 psi at the track on his TD05. His car sees 20 psi by 2600 RPM. He's also doing unusual things like water injection.

I've asked this before, but what exactly are these guys doing? The main thing is that they're eliminating the 90 degree elbow, but what else? Andy also has an aftermarket uppipe, and from the sounds of it, these two adjustments are enough to spool the turbo 500+ RPM sooner! I really need to look into what's involved in getting rid of the 90 degree elbow...is it necc to go with a FMIC if you're doing this?

john banks

Andy runs a chargecooler. I think the uppipe and the straight entry are the factors. He also has the knock sensor inoperable so gets maximum possible advance during spool up.

I am used to 20 PSI by 2700 RPM on my TD04L hybrid, shudder to think what it will be with VF23 and manifold, but I need more in the 4000-6000 RPM range

annointed

And how is a chargecooler different from an intercooler?

Jolly Green Monster 2

Cooled by water rather than air.

I think his is a TMIc with a DIY water jacket around it..

Nice job.. and a mod I would consider.

JGM

annointed

Wow, that's awesome...need more info and pics!

paulwadams_my99

just out of interest how do you disperse the heat from the water? Where is the tank?

Andy.F

I originally ran it from a tank but that was just to make it to the dyno day !! I now have a radiator fitted in front of the main rad to cool the circulating water. Great for street and 1/4 mile use, still to be proven on circuit with continuous heat input.

Andy.F

Annointed

What's involved in the 18G upgrade ? can you buy a compressor housing off the shelf to suit the new compressor wheel ? Or does the original housing get machined to suit ? Any idea parts cost ??

Andy

annointed

Well, Andy at Rallispec, the place that did my jdm swap, is a Subaru expert, but his first love is DSM's, so he's also a Mitsubishi expert. In fact, he has an 11 sec Mitsubishi at the moment with a DSM engine in it. He told me that my easiest and most reliable turbo upgrade would be a "big 16G" (550 cfm), which was the turbo on the Evo 3, and which is more efficient at boost levels over 18 psi compared with the "small 16G" wheel that we have (505 cfm), or an 18G (600 cfm) compressor wheel upgrade, which he said would be like a mack truck rear ending the car when it hits, and which is very efficient up to 25 psi from what I've read. He doubted the 20G would fit the TD05 housing, and from what other DSMer's have told me, it won't.

I've priced the big 16G at US$400 from one place that I don't recall the name of. The 18G compressor swap is on sale at Forced Performance for US$429, IIRC. For either upgrade they have to machine the housing to accomodate the larger wheel.

I'm planning on being at 450+ bhp with a stroker kit, so the 18G is a logical choice for me personally, but the stroker kit is slated for my 2003 project. I've only put 9k miles on my 310 bhp conversion, so I'm going to continue at these levels until I can get some 550 cc injectors and the TDO5-18G on, which will put me around 375 bhp. Then the next step is to stroke it out so I can run higher boost levels. I'll also have to upgrade tranny, FMIC, and clutch at that point, as well.

R19KET

Annointed,

Are you quoting ATW's power figures ?

Mark.

Jolly Green Monster 2

Sounds well extreme!! cool...

Keep us all informed of how it is going.

I don't think my engine with 104,000miles on it would like my playing with it like that

waiting for a big bang and then might slip an STi engine in..

JGM