WRX Hawkeye Mapping Debate. Who do I go to? What do I need?
28 October 2015, 06:38 PM
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WRX Hawkeye Mapping Debate. Who do I go to? What do I need?
Its time to get my WRX Hawkeye remapped. Ive done a few searches but would like tailored advice to suit my car as im new to the subaru world so would like to throw some questions about first.
Ive had my car for a few months now and had to fix a few issues before I even considered making more power.
The car has covered 72k or so miles and just after I got it the clutch went along with the secondary air valves.
I got a new clutch fitted at Prosport in stockport and shortly after I removed the secondary air valves using cosworth blanks.
This left me with error codes p1410 and p2432 for the secondary air valves being stuck open. I was assured it will be fine to drive with these codes as it will only run low boost rather than engine damaging limp home mode etc
Prosport quoted me £160 to have the codes removed which I felt was high as remap prices start around £300 and I can have the codes removed at the same time.
I have now bought a Miltek exhaust to make the most out of the map.
Its 3" from the turbo and tapers to 2.75" after the cat
I also have a K&N panel filter fitted aswell.
My main priority is to have the Secondary air valve codes removed properly so the car runs as it should without them. I dont want the codes just to be removed and masked... I want the car to run safely without them just as a bugeye or blobeye would do.
I also would like to be able to run a BOV safely as Im aware subarus were not designed for a BOV and require a recirculating valve so that all waste pressure is metered. I do have a turbosmart dualport BOV but I have removed it for the time being as I felt it wasnt running right with the stock map, although I would like to try a HKS SSQV but there fully atmospheric rather than 50/50 recirc/atmospheric.
Which of these two BOV's would work best with the impreza? Or none at all? I know BOV's are taboo on here but id atleast like the option of running one and would rather have the facts first rather than any misconceptions.
Switchable maps would be nice as this is my daily driver so a low boost map for going to work would be nice with a good mpg return and then a high boost map for having fun.
Im also open to any extras like launch control or anti lag if the extra cost isn't too high and it wont be detrimental to my engine.
Since ive owned the car i have always ran it on Shell Vpower, is it wise for me to get it mapped on vpower? are the extra gains worth while vs the pain of only being able to top up at shell?
I would like to see my car get around 280bhp, is this possible with my spec list? If not what should i add to achieve this?
Should I add a uprated Fuel pump and boost solenoid at this stage? Will it make a positive addition to the mapping?
What other upgrades would be beneficial at this stage? STI intercooler? New Spark Plugs?
What software should I go for?
Will I get better results from a rolling road or a live road map? I want real figures not made up bragging figures.
Now im aware this is the hardest question to answer, I want experiences from those who have had there car mapped from multiple companies either due to extra upgrades from after it was remapped or if it was due to a poor first map so you had to go else where second time round.
Or I want your experiences with mappers if you have a impreza which is a similar spec to mine or you have had multiple impreza ownership with different cars from different mappers, who did you feel was the best?
I dont want to get into a slanging match but id like experiences both bad and good so i can make a fair judgement but please refrain from finger pointing and twisted facts.
Im based in the north west but I am willing to travel anywhere for the right service.
Thanks for reading so far and I look forward to the discussion
My WRX Story So Far
Ive had my car for a few months now and had to fix a few issues before I even considered making more power.
The car has covered 72k or so miles and just after I got it the clutch went along with the secondary air valves.
I got a new clutch fitted at Prosport in stockport and shortly after I removed the secondary air valves using cosworth blanks.
This left me with error codes p1410 and p2432 for the secondary air valves being stuck open. I was assured it will be fine to drive with these codes as it will only run low boost rather than engine damaging limp home mode etc
Prosport quoted me £160 to have the codes removed which I felt was high as remap prices start around £300 and I can have the codes removed at the same time.
I have now bought a Miltek exhaust to make the most out of the map.
Its 3" from the turbo and tapers to 2.75" after the cat
I also have a K&N panel filter fitted aswell.
My Mapping Goals If Possible
My main priority is to have the Secondary air valve codes removed properly so the car runs as it should without them. I dont want the codes just to be removed and masked... I want the car to run safely without them just as a bugeye or blobeye would do.
I also would like to be able to run a BOV safely as Im aware subarus were not designed for a BOV and require a recirculating valve so that all waste pressure is metered. I do have a turbosmart dualport BOV but I have removed it for the time being as I felt it wasnt running right with the stock map, although I would like to try a HKS SSQV but there fully atmospheric rather than 50/50 recirc/atmospheric.
Which of these two BOV's would work best with the impreza? Or none at all? I know BOV's are taboo on here but id atleast like the option of running one and would rather have the facts first rather than any misconceptions.
Switchable maps would be nice as this is my daily driver so a low boost map for going to work would be nice with a good mpg return and then a high boost map for having fun.
Im also open to any extras like launch control or anti lag if the extra cost isn't too high and it wont be detrimental to my engine.
Since ive owned the car i have always ran it on Shell Vpower, is it wise for me to get it mapped on vpower? are the extra gains worth while vs the pain of only being able to top up at shell?
I would like to see my car get around 280bhp, is this possible with my spec list? If not what should i add to achieve this?
My Questions
Should I add a uprated Fuel pump and boost solenoid at this stage? Will it make a positive addition to the mapping?
What other upgrades would be beneficial at this stage? STI intercooler? New Spark Plugs?
What software should I go for?
Will I get better results from a rolling road or a live road map? I want real figures not made up bragging figures.
Who Do You Recommend To Map My Car?
Now im aware this is the hardest question to answer, I want experiences from those who have had there car mapped from multiple companies either due to extra upgrades from after it was remapped or if it was due to a poor first map so you had to go else where second time round.
Or I want your experiences with mappers if you have a impreza which is a similar spec to mine or you have had multiple impreza ownership with different cars from different mappers, who did you feel was the best?
I dont want to get into a slanging match but id like experiences both bad and good so i can make a fair judgement but please refrain from finger pointing and twisted facts.
Im based in the north west but I am willing to travel anywhere for the right service.
Thanks for reading so far and I look forward to the discussion
Last edited by McGoo; 28 October 2015 at 06:41 PM.
28 October 2015, 06:56 PM
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not sure about STI TMIC but I'd upgrade fuel pump and change spark plugs as it's always have a fresh parts in and also that's what I did when I was preparing my car for a mapping.
I'm also up north and I choosed Andrew Carr to remap my car and it was done art TEG, which is about 10 minutes drive from J35 M6
I'm also up north and I choosed Andrew Carr to remap my car and it was done art TEG, which is about 10 minutes drive from J35 M6
28 October 2015, 08:08 PM
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Had my bugeye wrx mapped by duncan. First with decat,sti tmic, walbro etc to around 280ish. Then map tweak with vf30 and pinks to 336bhp. Great mapper and in 5years only replaced lambda sensor. My blob ive not long had mapped by andrew carr. Again great mapper and i had him map car as i wanted carrberry rom with twin maps and antilag
29 October 2015, 12:48 AM
#4
sounds like your doing things in the right order anyway, can never have enough research!
You should definitely consider a fuel pump - that and a decent boost gauge will be number one items for any new owner if you don't have them already. In terms of power goals, the Andy Forrest site is usually good for an indicator of what mods will get you what returns:
http://andyforrestperformance.co.uk/27344.html
Your hawk WRX is still running the TD04 turbo so that will be the limiting factor in HP production, but torque output can be quite tasty given the additional displacement over a bug/blob 2.0 unit.
Antilag will be very harsh on the engine, with the 2.5's known for headgasket issues and the WRX having a weaker head setup you will be pushing the boundaries a bit there - launch control is almost standard for remaps these days but again your own mileage may vary, your new clutch may find it self quickly at an end if your making use of the launch control on a regular basis! The gearbox won't be too happy about it either especially if you stick in flat foot shifting.
A lot of the features you have mentioned are covered by the ECUteks "racerom" product:
http://www.ecutek.com/Products/Trade...ru-K-Line-2004
But there are also some opensource options if you want to keep the costs down.
Your chosen mapper will generally be happy to work with either product and the results should be fairly similar, it's more down to their experience with the car rather than the tools they have available (though I do know that ECUtek allows access to more of the secondary air pump tables than opensource has currently defined).
For the dump valve - there is no way to map around a vent to atmosphere setup using the MAF based ECU tune. The car can only read the air coming in past the sensor, it has no way to know if you've vented some to the world or plumbed it back into the system. Most cars will run quite happily with a loud wooshy valve, but it's been my experience that ebay 9.99 valves will suck donkey nuts/cause air leaks/boost leaks/vac leaks/poor running and awful fuel economy. Get a quality genuine part first time round and you should have no real issues. There are some guides on here for spotting fake valves if your going down the second hand route, always make sure to check with the seller that the unit is genuine and at least you have some grounds to return it if it's not.
The spec you've listed should see you in the region of 270-280hp depending on your specific engine health/what temperature it is/if you do a road dyno or real dyno/what mood the dyno operator or mapper is in. But try not to get too caught up in the numbers as you'll quickly be out of pocket chasing those last few HP. Even a reasonably standard car should be able to skirt 300 lbsft of torque - with the nice open downpipe and a quality panel filter that should increase to 350 lbsft.
The real fun you have is because your car is drivebywire, you can feel a magical gain just by fixing the lazy throttle pedal settings. So that combined with the increased boost and leaner mixture from a good map will mean on and off boost will both be improved. You will most likely find that you dont *need* twin maps to net you economy and power, you simply adjust your driving style to suit your mood. Low throttle will yield low boost, decent cruise and economy - with the safety net that you can simply mash the pedal if you need to do a quick overtake (rather than scrambling for the defogger button to switch to the "power" map). This is the advantage of a fancy ECU and a ton of electrical gizmos all hooked up to the engine, you can combine the best of both in a single map that will fulfill both needs. Well, as much as you can get for fuel economy on a scoob anyway
As your hawk already has the bigger injectors as standard, if you find you really would rather have a little more top end then you can switch out the turbo for an STI unit (or a TD05 18g) and get the map tweaked to suit. The bigger turbo will shift the power band a little to the right so instead of power tailing off it will continue to perform all the way to the rev limit. Also with a bigger turbo there is a bit less of a restriction in the exhaust path so you might even get some extra MPG when driving off boost (if you can resist the loud pedal that is!). My bug was very much improved after fitting the 16g in terms of power/torque output as well as the economy. As it's just a turbo swap the cost wouldn't be as high compared to having to do the injectors as well on a bug/blob 2.0. Whilst the injectors themselves aren't mad money - if your not handy with the socket set then finding someone to install them could be hard on your pockets.
I think Andy Forrest and Bob Rawle both do mobile mapping so you may not even have to travel, both much like Andrew Carr or Duncan (race dynamix) seem to get very good reviews on here - just search for the names and you should get plenty of hits.
Unless you want to travel to NI that is
You should definitely consider a fuel pump - that and a decent boost gauge will be number one items for any new owner if you don't have them already. In terms of power goals, the Andy Forrest site is usually good for an indicator of what mods will get you what returns:
http://andyforrestperformance.co.uk/27344.html
Your hawk WRX is still running the TD04 turbo so that will be the limiting factor in HP production, but torque output can be quite tasty given the additional displacement over a bug/blob 2.0 unit.
Antilag will be very harsh on the engine, with the 2.5's known for headgasket issues and the WRX having a weaker head setup you will be pushing the boundaries a bit there - launch control is almost standard for remaps these days but again your own mileage may vary, your new clutch may find it self quickly at an end if your making use of the launch control on a regular basis! The gearbox won't be too happy about it either especially if you stick in flat foot shifting.
A lot of the features you have mentioned are covered by the ECUteks "racerom" product:
http://www.ecutek.com/Products/Trade...ru-K-Line-2004
But there are also some opensource options if you want to keep the costs down.
Your chosen mapper will generally be happy to work with either product and the results should be fairly similar, it's more down to their experience with the car rather than the tools they have available (though I do know that ECUtek allows access to more of the secondary air pump tables than opensource has currently defined).
For the dump valve - there is no way to map around a vent to atmosphere setup using the MAF based ECU tune. The car can only read the air coming in past the sensor, it has no way to know if you've vented some to the world or plumbed it back into the system. Most cars will run quite happily with a loud wooshy valve, but it's been my experience that ebay 9.99 valves will suck donkey nuts/cause air leaks/boost leaks/vac leaks/poor running and awful fuel economy. Get a quality genuine part first time round and you should have no real issues. There are some guides on here for spotting fake valves if your going down the second hand route, always make sure to check with the seller that the unit is genuine and at least you have some grounds to return it if it's not.
The spec you've listed should see you in the region of 270-280hp depending on your specific engine health/what temperature it is/if you do a road dyno or real dyno/what mood the dyno operator or mapper is in. But try not to get too caught up in the numbers as you'll quickly be out of pocket chasing those last few HP. Even a reasonably standard car should be able to skirt 300 lbsft of torque - with the nice open downpipe and a quality panel filter that should increase to 350 lbsft.
The real fun you have is because your car is drivebywire, you can feel a magical gain just by fixing the lazy throttle pedal settings. So that combined with the increased boost and leaner mixture from a good map will mean on and off boost will both be improved. You will most likely find that you dont *need* twin maps to net you economy and power, you simply adjust your driving style to suit your mood. Low throttle will yield low boost, decent cruise and economy - with the safety net that you can simply mash the pedal if you need to do a quick overtake (rather than scrambling for the defogger button to switch to the "power" map). This is the advantage of a fancy ECU and a ton of electrical gizmos all hooked up to the engine, you can combine the best of both in a single map that will fulfill both needs. Well, as much as you can get for fuel economy on a scoob anyway
As your hawk already has the bigger injectors as standard, if you find you really would rather have a little more top end then you can switch out the turbo for an STI unit (or a TD05 18g) and get the map tweaked to suit. The bigger turbo will shift the power band a little to the right so instead of power tailing off it will continue to perform all the way to the rev limit. Also with a bigger turbo there is a bit less of a restriction in the exhaust path so you might even get some extra MPG when driving off boost (if you can resist the loud pedal that is!). My bug was very much improved after fitting the 16g in terms of power/torque output as well as the economy. As it's just a turbo swap the cost wouldn't be as high compared to having to do the injectors as well on a bug/blob 2.0. Whilst the injectors themselves aren't mad money - if your not handy with the socket set then finding someone to install them could be hard on your pockets.
I think Andy Forrest and Bob Rawle both do mobile mapping so you may not even have to travel, both much like Andrew Carr or Duncan (race dynamix) seem to get very good reviews on here - just search for the names and you should get plenty of hits.
Unless you want to travel to NI that is
29 October 2015, 08:48 AM
#5
Mega detailed post mate, fair play! I'd love to reply with as much detail but just sat in a site induction so can't.
Who should map your car. For 9/10 people its location based ie whose good and relatively local to you? Not everyone fancys a 650mile round trip like me. Based on your location I would say Andrew Carr would be a great option, he's based in the north west so very local to you. If you were down South I would suggest Martyn Jeffery that's who mapped my sprint car and did a great job.
Who should map your car. For 9/10 people its location based ie whose good and relatively local to you? Not everyone fancys a 650mile round trip like me. Based on your location I would say Andrew Carr would be a great option, he's based in the north west so very local to you. If you were down South I would suggest Martyn Jeffery that's who mapped my sprint car and did a great job.
03 November 2015, 08:19 AM
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First off id like to thank you all for your replies youve all been very helpful and many of my questions have been answered but i also have a few more questions now 
It seems it will be worth while buying a fuel pump now so which is the recommended pump to go for? Any recommended sellers?
Also regards a bov id like to be able to fit one without it effecting my map as im much more about the performance than the noise but i do like the rallyesc sound of a hks ssqv. If i got the car mapped with a ssqv and removed it at a later date would that cause an issue?
The reason I ask is because I do have a turbosmart dual port bov which ive been running 50/50 recirc/atmosphere but ive removed it as I felt like it was using more fuel than the stock valve and occasionally it had a lumpy idle.. I dont want to get the car mapped with a bov and then I have to always run one..
I will probably go for a mapper with ecu tek so I can get the secondary air valves removed properly.
Also regards the mappers who travel to you I assume they will then map the car on the road rather than the dyno? Id assume that a dyno map would be better as you can take the car through all the rev range on the dyno but you cannot always do that on the road so will that not effect the way the car gets mapped?
Thanks all for your replies its appreciated
It seems it will be worth while buying a fuel pump now so which is the recommended pump to go for? Any recommended sellers?
Also regards a bov id like to be able to fit one without it effecting my map as im much more about the performance than the noise but i do like the rallyesc sound of a hks ssqv. If i got the car mapped with a ssqv and removed it at a later date would that cause an issue?
The reason I ask is because I do have a turbosmart dual port bov which ive been running 50/50 recirc/atmosphere but ive removed it as I felt like it was using more fuel than the stock valve and occasionally it had a lumpy idle.. I dont want to get the car mapped with a bov and then I have to always run one..
I will probably go for a mapper with ecu tek so I can get the secondary air valves removed properly.
Also regards the mappers who travel to you I assume they will then map the car on the road rather than the dyno? Id assume that a dyno map would be better as you can take the car through all the rev range on the dyno but you cannot always do that on the road so will that not effect the way the car gets mapped?
Thanks all for your replies its appreciated
03 November 2015, 09:33 AM
#7
I always recommend scoobyworx pumps - never had a problem with one, delivery is fast and the guys are always happy to answer any questions. I think he had a sale on recently not sure if it's still running so check the trader section for more details.
There is no mapping to compensate for a blow off valve, your losing metered air so some cars cope with it better than others. It really shouldn't make any difference to the map removing it later on. The main problem with bov's is when they open to early at low pressure, this makes the car basically think it has an air leak somewhere and it monkeys with the fuelling. The car will take a brief moment to compensate, then realise its off now (because the valve has closed) and so has to uncorrect the corrections it made.
The only real way to avoid the problem is to go for a speed density setup - which would be overkill for your car so just stick to a quality dump valve with a strong spring in it.
As for the airvalves - anyone on romraider (an open source tuning forum) are happy with having the codes deleted.
Even if the car is mapped on a dyno, you'll need to take it on the road to finish the job - dyno load and road load in theory *should* be the same. But this isn't always the case. If there's a dyno nearby you can use then most mappers will be happy to meet you there and do the initial setup on the dyno and finish off on the road - but the cost will go up by quiet a bit as you'll have to pay for dyno time as well as the map. If you had any strange or unusual mods on the car I'd say go for the dyno to get the most from your unique setup - however your setup is pretty normal so most mappers should have a base map to get started on that's pretty close to your needs so dyno fine tuning wouldn't be strictly necessary. Speak to your chosen mapper on that one as they will also have their own preference and that will be more important than what the internet says.
There is no mapping to compensate for a blow off valve, your losing metered air so some cars cope with it better than others. It really shouldn't make any difference to the map removing it later on. The main problem with bov's is when they open to early at low pressure, this makes the car basically think it has an air leak somewhere and it monkeys with the fuelling. The car will take a brief moment to compensate, then realise its off now (because the valve has closed) and so has to uncorrect the corrections it made.
The only real way to avoid the problem is to go for a speed density setup - which would be overkill for your car so just stick to a quality dump valve with a strong spring in it.
As for the airvalves - anyone on romraider (an open source tuning forum) are happy with having the codes deleted.
Even if the car is mapped on a dyno, you'll need to take it on the road to finish the job - dyno load and road load in theory *should* be the same. But this isn't always the case. If there's a dyno nearby you can use then most mappers will be happy to meet you there and do the initial setup on the dyno and finish off on the road - but the cost will go up by quiet a bit as you'll have to pay for dyno time as well as the map. If you had any strange or unusual mods on the car I'd say go for the dyno to get the most from your unique setup - however your setup is pretty normal so most mappers should have a base map to get started on that's pretty close to your needs so dyno fine tuning wouldn't be strictly necessary. Speak to your chosen mapper on that one as they will also have their own preference and that will be more important than what the internet says.
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03 November 2015, 10:34 AM
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Thanks bludgod youve been a great help and have answered all my questions perfectly and cleared up some of the queries ive had.
This will be the first car ive had remapped so I wanted to make sure that its right especially as ive heard horror stories of boost creap or no boost at all after a remap.
Im going to get on the phone today and see what the mappers can do for me.
This will be the first car ive had remapped so I wanted to make sure that its right especially as ive heard horror stories of boost creap or no boost at all after a remap.
Im going to get on the phone today and see what the mappers can do for me.
30 November 2015, 02:51 PM
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sorry for the delay on the update, been busy with work so havnt had time to make many calls.
Ive tried to call a few mappers and havnt had much luck so have had to send of emails..
Ive spoken to Group B motorsport in deeside and they sound promising but are booked up until the 11th of december.
Does anyone have any contact numbers for any north west mappers who could map this week?
Ive tried to call a few mappers and havnt had much luck so have had to send of emails..
Ive spoken to Group B motorsport in deeside and they sound promising but are booked up until the 11th of december.
Does anyone have any contact numbers for any north west mappers who could map this week?
30 November 2015, 06:52 PM
#10
My choice of mapper in the north is Pat @ Scooby Clinic, he's the man behind the Syvecs ecu which is pretty much the ecu of choice for everyone that runs big power.
The other benefit of using Pat is he's generally to be found at Scooby Clinic who are the people behind some of the best turbos out there, they have a fully equipped workshop, dyno and mechanics that know their stuff, so if any problems should occur on mapping day (which happens a lot) they have a hell of a lot of experience and parts on site, which ultimately means they can sort you out there and then most of the time, in my experience, which ultimately saves you time, money and hassle.
The other benefit of using Pat is he's generally to be found at Scooby Clinic who are the people behind some of the best turbos out there, they have a fully equipped workshop, dyno and mechanics that know their stuff, so if any problems should occur on mapping day (which happens a lot) they have a hell of a lot of experience and parts on site, which ultimately means they can sort you out there and then most of the time, in my experience, which ultimately saves you time, money and hassle.
07 December 2015, 11:12 PM
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Just a little update to whats been going on as ive been abit busy lately.
Ive spoke to a few companies and mobile mappers about a remap and have decided to go with Group B motorsport in deeside as ive heard there name crop up a few times and its all been good.
One of the main things that sold them to me was that they do alot more than just remaps.. They build rally cars and restorations and its all done in house rather than using a mobile mapper who maybe hard to get hold of if I have any issues.
I have my car booked in for friday and will be fitting my exhaust on thursday. Unfortunately I havnt been able to get a fuel pump or anything else to go with the remap but the initial price is £350 and a tweak is £150 which sounds pretty reasonable to me!
Has anyone used Group B Motorsport recently?
Heres there website
http://www.groupbmotorsport.com
Would it be worth me getting my sports cat heat wrapped before i fit it as i wont be able to fit the stock heat shields
Ive spoke to a few companies and mobile mappers about a remap and have decided to go with Group B motorsport in deeside as ive heard there name crop up a few times and its all been good.
One of the main things that sold them to me was that they do alot more than just remaps.. They build rally cars and restorations and its all done in house rather than using a mobile mapper who maybe hard to get hold of if I have any issues.
I have my car booked in for friday and will be fitting my exhaust on thursday. Unfortunately I havnt been able to get a fuel pump or anything else to go with the remap but the initial price is £350 and a tweak is £150 which sounds pretty reasonable to me!
Has anyone used Group B Motorsport recently?
Heres there website
http://www.groupbmotorsport.com
Would it be worth me getting my sports cat heat wrapped before i fit it as i wont be able to fit the stock heat shields
08 December 2015, 11:13 AM
#13
no reason why you shouldn't be able to get the stock heatshield back on as well as a bit of heat wrap around the cat as well. When fitting the heatshield just cut a small section out to make room so it clears the downpipe. The price of the fuel pump is about the same as the tweak though, why not wait a week or two and get it fitted as well - just seems to make more sense?
08 December 2015, 11:35 AM
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no reason why you shouldn't be able to get the stock heatshield back on as well as a bit of heat wrap around the cat as well. When fitting the heatshield just cut a small section out to make room so it clears the downpipe. The price of the fuel pump is about the same as the tweak though, why not wait a week or two and get it fitted as well - just seems to make more sense?
The eml has been on for too long now and I want to make sure that its done before next year. Ive already splashed out on a milltek exhaust system to make the most of the map so i really dont want to push it back any further.
Also as its christmas im going to be skint anyway haha if
08 December 2015, 12:19 PM
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Yeh its a 3" sports cat which tapers to 2.75" after the cat, it has a small resonator in the mid pipe and a 3.5" tail pipe
It was on ebay afew weeks ago ill do a sound clip once its all fitted
08 December 2015, 01:07 PM
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It still worked out a good saving over a new system which have an eye watering price if you want a sports cat!
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