Knock Correction and what should I log?
10 February 2015, 09:44 PM
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Knock Correction and what should I log?
Just had a quick play with FreeSSM and a VagCom cable on my Hatch and I logged a knock correction value of -11.9 deg. Now that seems bad to me but do I need to read out other values in conjunction with that to get the whole picture?
As it's a live log I don't know at what revs that occurred. Would I be better using RomRaider to log?
As it's a live log I don't know at what revs that occurred. Would I be better using RomRaider to log?
10 February 2015, 10:27 PM
#2
yes romraider would be much better. Use it to save a screenshot of the LTV values (long term values for fuel and knock trims stored in the ECU) as well as logging:
engine speed
engine load
mafv
Feedback Knock Correction
Fine Learning Knock Correction
Knock Correction Advance Max
Ignition Total Timing
Manifold Relative Pressure
should be a good start for you. if you post your logs I'll take a look and remember the LTV screenshot as well (when you press the LTV button in romraider logger you can click "save as image").
engine speed
engine load
mafv
Feedback Knock Correction
Fine Learning Knock Correction
Knock Correction Advance Max
Ignition Total Timing
Manifold Relative Pressure
should be a good start for you. if you post your logs I'll take a look and remember the LTV screenshot as well (when you press the LTV button in romraider logger you can click "save as image").
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12 February 2015, 09:44 PM
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/kvdcsya72b...05139.csv?dl=0
There's the CSV file, I'd imagine it's a tale of woe
There's the CSV file, I'd imagine it's a tale of woe
12 February 2015, 10:05 PM
#11
well the a/f learning looks good, all in and around 5% so nothing to complain about there.
Your IAM is in a bad way though, yours is sitting at 0 and it should be sitting at 1. This is why your only hitting 0.5 bar boost the car is basically in limp mode.
The worse part is even tho your IAM is bottomed out your still pulling more timing -10 is massive.
Could also do with some adjustments to the data your logging:
Engine Speed (rpm)
You have engine load relative here, but what you want is engine load g/s
Engine Load (Relative) (%)
Only one boost pressure reading is needed psi or bar your choice. Just remove the other one.
Manifold Relative Pressure (bar)
Manifold Relative Pressure (Corrected) (psi)
By any chance do you have a crack in your uppipe or something terribly wrong with your car? It would need to be pretty drastic to drop your IAM to zero - honestly I would stay off boost until you can get the car checked out.
Your IAM is in a bad way though, yours is sitting at 0 and it should be sitting at 1. This is why your only hitting 0.5 bar boost the car is basically in limp mode.
The worse part is even tho your IAM is bottomed out your still pulling more timing -10 is massive.
Could also do with some adjustments to the data your logging:
Engine Speed (rpm)
You have engine load relative here, but what you want is engine load g/s
Engine Load (Relative) (%)
Only one boost pressure reading is needed psi or bar your choice. Just remove the other one.
Manifold Relative Pressure (bar)
Manifold Relative Pressure (Corrected) (psi)
By any chance do you have a crack in your uppipe or something terribly wrong with your car? It would need to be pretty drastic to drop your IAM to zero - honestly I would stay off boost until you can get the car checked out.
12 February 2015, 10:11 PM
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I would suggest that you may have a broken ring-land there - lots of ignition being taken out around idle and an IAM value of zero points to a possibly serious problem.
Reset the ecu, include the IAM and load as data items and repost your logs here...
Needs looking into...
Reset the ecu, include the IAM and load as data items and repost your logs here...
Needs looking into...
Last edited by little'un; 12 February 2015 at 10:15 PM.
12 February 2015, 10:18 PM
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Might be time to discuss pulling the engine
12 February 2015, 10:20 PM
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Doesn't look very healthy as others have said.
If you wanted a comparison log, here is one of mine, form a 2006 STI but gives an idea of how different your engine is performing.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8x7gv8e0ms...P_4th.csv?dl=0
If you wanted a comparison log, here is one of mine, form a 2006 STI but gives an idea of how different your engine is performing.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8x7gv8e0ms...P_4th.csv?dl=0
12 February 2015, 10:22 PM
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I would suggest that you may have a broken ring-land there - lots of ignition being taken out around idle and an IAM value of zero points to a possibly serious problem.
Reset the ecu, include the IAM and load as data items and repost your logs here...
Needs looking into...
Reset the ecu, include the IAM and load as data items and repost your logs here...
Needs looking into...
Will try and log tomorrow with the correct settings. What's IAM by the way?
Thanks for the help guys, shame it's not good news...
12 February 2015, 10:24 PM
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I'd recommend a leakdown test, and check for obvious signs of crankcase pressurisation/breathing, or alternatively it's an easy noise to pickup with det-cans.
does it use a lot of oil?
IAM is Ignition Advance Multiplier - should be at 1.000 if the ecu 'thinks' everything is running smoothly.
does it use a lot of oil?
IAM is Ignition Advance Multiplier - should be at 1.000 if the ecu 'thinks' everything is running smoothly.
Last edited by little'un; 12 February 2015 at 10:25 PM.
12 February 2015, 10:32 PM
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I'd recommend a leakdown test, and check for obvious signs of crankcase pressurisation/breathing, or alternatively it's an easy noise to pickup with det-cans.
does it use a lot of oil?
IAM is Ignition Advance Multiplier - should be at 1.000 if the ecu 'thinks' everything is running smoothly.
does it use a lot of oil?
IAM is Ignition Advance Multiplier - should be at 1.000 if the ecu 'thinks' everything is running smoothly.
1l in about 2000 miles.
Cheers.
12 February 2015, 10:55 PM
#18
have you had the fuelling checked yet with a wideband sensor? Could be super lean causing that kind of knock too - maybe if the FPR vacume line has perished or escaped so when the car boosts your still on base fuel pressure only.
Get your head under the bonnet and start looking around, check underneath around the headers and the uppipe into the turbo just eyeball everything. Hopefully it's not too bad for you mr.
Get your head under the bonnet and start looking around, check underneath around the headers and the uppipe into the turbo just eyeball everything. Hopefully it's not too bad for you mr.
24 February 2015, 09:34 PM
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New logs, that's better (I think)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4hubxvie1...11226.csv?dl=0
Hopefully this is a bit better, I could make it a competition to guess what got changed at the weekend!
Hopefully this is a bit better, I could make it a competition to guess what got changed at the weekend!
24 February 2015, 09:43 PM
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Well I'll answer my own question, there is a fibre washer under the knock sensor as Len at Subaru 4 You was convinced that the sensor was picking up false knock.
It's now booked in for a remap to try and 'desensitise' the sensor (without the washer) and correct the stock fuelling.
It's now booked in for a remap to try and 'desensitise' the sensor (without the washer) and correct the stock fuelling.
25 February 2015, 08:23 AM
#22
definitely a better looking learning view shot anyway - over how much driving was that just reset and drive round a bit? Check it again after a day or so cruising around and see how it looks.
The log isn't much use - you've not logged all the knock correction values and you've logged boost twice. You won't know if there was knock or not in that log.
You shouldn't need a remap for false knock on a stock car unless you have forged pistons or something - if you look at the LTV screenshot your last airflow range is quite a bit bigger than the others. The car is having to reduce fuel which suggests air leak (metered air is escaping under boost). Have you triple checked everything to make sure you don't have any sneaky mouse holes or leaky dump valves?
The log isn't much use - you've not logged all the knock correction values and you've logged boost twice. You won't know if there was knock or not in that log.
You shouldn't need a remap for false knock on a stock car unless you have forged pistons or something - if you look at the LTV screenshot your last airflow range is quite a bit bigger than the others. The car is having to reduce fuel which suggests air leak (metered air is escaping under boost). Have you triple checked everything to make sure you don't have any sneaky mouse holes or leaky dump valves?
25 February 2015, 09:57 AM
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Ah, sorry. I thought I'd got the right stuff on the log. I blame the small screen on my netbook 
I'll do another run a bit later in the week. I've covered maybe 50 miles since the reset, mixture of motorway and crawling traffic.
I'll take another look around the pipework at the weekend.
I'm going for a remap as it's an STi hatch so I want the stock fuelling made more safe
I'll do another run a bit later in the week. I've covered maybe 50 miles since the reset, mixture of motorway and crawling traffic.
I'll take another look around the pipework at the weekend.
I'm going for a remap as it's an STi hatch so I want the stock fuelling made more safe
25 February 2015, 07:03 PM
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Dunno what the difference is TBH! I'd like switchable maps on my little SI drive **** but if I only get the full monty in one map I'll be happy.
Getting an uprated fuel pump too.
Hopefully Bob won't hear anything untoward on the det cans during the map
Getting an uprated fuel pump too.
Hopefully Bob won't hear anything untoward on the det cans during the map
26 February 2015, 06:13 PM
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Well that went wrong quickly
[IMG]
[/IMG]
Well that's not good, car was running poorly again today so I thought I'd quickly pull the LTV and this is what I found. Looks like I won't be mapping this out
[/IMG]Well that's not good, car was running poorly again today so I thought I'd quickly pull the LTV and this is what I found. Looks like I won't be mapping this out
26 February 2015, 07:43 PM
#27
:O IAM of ZERo and *STILL* negative 11 on timing. That has to be some kind of record!
Do you still think it's false knock, maybe your "knock washer" has failed? Your car is sick mr - get it booked in somewhere that can do a proper diagnosis before something gets truly buggered.
Do you still think it's false knock, maybe your "knock washer" has failed? Your car is sick mr - get it booked in somewhere that can do a proper diagnosis before something gets truly buggered.
26 February 2015, 08:08 PM
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I always wanted a record, just not that kind 
The knock washer was fitted by Subaru 4 You in Newbury as they/we have been working through the hesitation for some time (4 months or so). It was booked in for a remap on Wednesday but I don't know if to use the rolling road time to get some further diagnostics done.
I'm starting to feel that the only outcome from all this is going to be engine out
The knock washer was fitted by Subaru 4 You in Newbury as they/we have been working through the hesitation for some time (4 months or so). It was booked in for a remap on Wednesday but I don't know if to use the rolling road time to get some further diagnostics done.
I'm starting to feel that the only outcome from all this is going to be engine out
05 March 2015, 12:53 PM
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Looks like a rebuild next month and I'll be adding myself to the 2008 failed engine log
Another big thank you to the guys on this thread who came up with suggestions and took the time to interpret my logs (however dodgy)
