olliecampbell

iTrader: (3)

Im planning my upgrades at the moment and will need to sort out the gearbox eventually to cope with the power...

I dont know if i really want a 6 speeder and was wondering if getting my box serviced/reconditioned and upgraded with PPG gears 1-4, leaving 5 as normal.

Opinions please...especially if you already have this done...

911

Only my opinion as I went into all this 12 months ago.

IMHO:
If your car is a road only car with a strong engine torque of 350+ lbft then the 6 speeder would be very civilised though a bit frantic through 1 to 4th.
There is a substantial weight gain too (30Kg or so)
Price fitted = about £2K+ (DIY about 1600)

If your car is more race event inspired then the ppg is a great way forward as there is a good choice of options.
Weight is about the same, just 5 gears to pace through.
Cost though is greater, about £2800 for the box but you save on the rear diff as the conversion uses the existing front diff.
If your current box/diff is ok you can sell and offset the cost a little with the 6 speeder.

My Sti is a road driven competition car, so for me it will be a ppg straight cut on synchro with steel selectors and new rings etc, About £3K.

Graham

olliecampbell

iTrader: (3)

Oooh damn, i was kinda hoping that PPG would be a bit cheaper than a 6 speed conversion....

911

It is the dilema everyone eventually ends up with where the ppg is the same cost as the 6 speeder.
A friend a year or so ago bought a 6 speeder/diff/prop/shifter (etc) for £1400.

A bargain to say the least, so they can be found sometimes.

Graham

olliecampbell

iTrader: (3)

Hmm ok, ive just sent some details off to David at API. Ill see what he comes back with and make a decision then...

How much torque will a 6 speeder take before turning to porridge?

911

About 500?
I think there are several answers to that question!

dannytwo

iTrader: (5)

Im fitting my 6 speeder on monday,power wise it will be coping(hopefully) with 395 bhp and 420 torque. I have been told that this should be fine.

I also was going to go down the ppg route but thought that the 6 speed box would be a better option for me as it will be a day to day car,and as 911 said,it will be abit more civilised, but we will see.

Dannytwo

DesR

Hi

I'm runninng the 5 speed helical PPG kit and it is very good. Very positive gear changes and next to no noise (as opposed to the straight cut which I suspect dannytwo is referring to). The car is in use daily driving the kids to school.

Cheers

dannytwo

iTrader: (5)

modena gear kits are very good but costly.
I was going to go with the stright cut ppg but dont think i could have put up with the winning

DesR

Had the straight cut on the car for a while and I personally didnt find the sound that bad (other half hated it - and it is VERY noisy from outside). Did initially think about soundproofing it (website called noisekiller will wrap gearboxes to reduce noise - apparently quite popular with landies) but eventually went for the helical kit.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

What about the loss of cooling effect by wrapping it?

ASTiMAN

I'm running the standard Type R V5 box with Redline Heavy Shockproof and the car is producing 423bhp and 420lb/ft. I just won the Manx Classic 3 Hills (beating the likes of Caterham R500s etc) and the box is still feeling great after 10 full bore launches. On the old turbo (estimated 380ish lb/ft) it did 29 quarter mile launches.

The later 5 speed (Sti 5 & 6) boxes are stronger, but I suppose you get good ones and bad ones.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

From the gearbox or the other half??

911

ASTi:
Any pics details of the event.
A number of us were going to 'raid' the hills but never got there this yeay.
Graham

scoobyDAZZA

speak to pavlo (paul at zen) and mark (lateral) as well

pavlo did mine 2 years ago
my00 uk turbo with PPG retaining factory 5th and it's fine
ok, it whines, but you get used to it after a while . or just get a blitz nur spec and you'd hardly hear it lol

if you do go for the PPG then ask about the billet selector forks as well , , i have still got the standard ones and did stuff 1 on the drag strip last year.

mine runs 461 / 486

DesR

Hi Jay.

Didnt get into that as I changed to the helical. Best people to speak to would be Noisekiller as they are the ones that offer the blanket.

Cheers

DesR

Have to agree with this... the noise really wasnt as bad as I thought it would be. I must say that I have all my soundproofing on the car so that does make a difference. I hate noise but the sound while being intrusive and very loud from outside the car (people will turn and look at you) wasnt chronic. I can certainly see that a person with a loud exhaust (which I dont have) would be quite comfortable with straight cuts (I have a brief recording I can email if that would help anyone).

I kept the billet selector forks (though not required) on the helical kit and I must say they do feel nice. Possibly more of a mental thing though...


Cheers

Daveo

Des,

Who carried out the gearbox conversion for you? Do you mind posting a rough price that it cost?

thanks

Dave

DesR

Hi Dave

I had my bits changed over last year so I suspect the price is out of date but expect to pay around £2100-ish for a helical or straight cut synchro kit. I know of at least two UK suppliers viz. Mark Aigin - Lateral Performance and Paul Blamire - Zen Performance. My gearbox was built by the same guy who builds my engine (Steve Whitson) but I don't know how relevant that info would be to you unless you are based in or near Edinburgh.

Cheers

911

API and I think Scooby Clinic do them too, API defo does.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Ollie, I just had 3/4th changed at a cost less than a 6 speed. It is helical IIRC and has a slight whine, which I kinda like! 5th is std. Zen did the work very quickly to an agreed price. 1st and 2nd may fail at some point but I don't do 1/4 stuff, just track work where they aren't normally used.

F

T5OLF

iTrader: (4)

I thought about a PPG when I broke my box last week, mine broke 5th gear so the PPG would have made no difference had it been fitted before. A 6 speed box is the way to go I reckon.

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

T5OLF,

What broke on 5th ? I know of many cars running a PPG 1-4, & standard 5th gear, with well over 550bhp/ftlbs, and they have never broken the gear.

Early boxes do use a smaller woodruff key on 5th, and these can break.

As Floyd has said, you can just fit an up rated PPG 3rd-4th helical, or straight cut syncro kit,

Or, if you like it a little quieter, but also like drag racing, you can fit a straight cut 1st-2nd, and a helical 3rd-4th !!!


Either way, there are combinations to suit most people.


Mark.

coulty

He built my engine too A nice 2.1 stroker! He does great work.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Mark, I'd not thought of having straight 1st and 2nd! We'll see how mine copes for now.

F

911

PPG say the straights are stronger than the helical, though both have similar tooth designs and obviously different geometry.

Is there some 'break-point' when a straight is a must?
ie Helical to 450 lbft, straight beyond 450?

Driving to and hopefully from events with a straight box sounds torture to me, but the 1st/2nd straight and 3/4 helical/5th stock sounds good for the road.

Graham

DesR

Hi Graham

I actually asked PPG how much torque they felt the helical could take and the response was a less than useful "500-600 bhp but if you are doing drag racing you should rather use the straight cuts". Would be interested in a better answer myself!!!

Cheers

911

On the stock box I thought it was 3rd that was the weak gear?
Straight/helical/stock sounds a good mix to me.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

I stripped 2nd on my OE box

dazdavies

iTrader: (22)

I did two second gears in three weeks on mine using OE gearboxes.

Then I went for a UK Six speed. I love it. It made the car very driveable. As Graham said 1-4th can be a bit frantic but less so on the UK six speed.

Although I did eventually wear the 4th gear syncros out.

The six speed was rebuilt and is now top notch.