mutant_matt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Andy Tang:
<B>MY97 with SS b/box, SS d/pipe and standard centre, was louder (!!) than;

MY99 with SS b/box, SS d/pipe and Magnex centre with resonator.

Both were UK cars. Noticed not only by me, but by my regular passengers as well! Might be worth investing in a centre section!!![/quote]

Really????? Louder inside or outside (as I'm all for loudness from outside ( ) but don't want it on the inside ( ....)

Ta,

Matt

P.S. I thought that you can no longer get the Magnex with resonator??

Jza

Ive been following Pete Croneys advice on this one re the MY01 WRX. He says he wont fit a DP to my car with a PPP until theyve had a chance to ensure there are no problem such as the ones Andy talks about. He did say that he's seen excellent results with a PPP and SSDP on the pre MY01 cars - just not had a chance to test yet (as no one has a PPP yet!!) and so wouldnt fit.

I therefore would suggest that he would have tested the DP with the PPP. So why not mail him and post his comments on this thread so we can read them?

Jza

mutant_matt

Guys,

I know it's been discussed many many times before and I've spent quite a few hours reading various posts that search brought up. I've got a question which I hope somebody can answer.

I've got an MY00 with a PPP BB and am planning on getting a Scoobysport DP but keeping the OE mid section so that a) it's not too loud on long journey's and b) will pass an MOT. I'm also planning on getting a PPP ECU & Intercooler bits so the question is:

1. Will adding a SS DP cause overboost problems before or after the PPP going on? (I don't think it will judging by other people's experiences)

2. I'm concerned about running lean with the PPP + SSDP at high revs - has anybody got this combination with a Knocklink or similar and knows for certain that Det is not apparent?

3. I know there are a fair few people out there with PPP + SSDP who will say that it's fine but the question is, how do you know without either a Knocklink or taking the engine apart and having a look at the piston crowns?

4. Am I being completely paranoid and should just do it and shut up???

Any takers?

Matt

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Hi Matt,

a) With the downpipe noise in the cabin will increase. You will hear the turbo spin up! Coupled with a backbox, the noise from the cabin does go up. Might be worth hearing a couple of cars to see if this is to your liking.

b) the car <I>might</I> pass an MOT with just a centre section. It will probably fail the idle emissions test, but they will then try a fast idle (2,500rpm) which it should pass. It is dependant on the condition of your cat and whether you have warmed up the car enough before the test.

1) The way I believe it, is that the less restrictions in the exhaust the more likely it is to overboost.

When my car had a ScoobySport backbox, ScoobySport downpipe and a Magnex centre, along with the PPP ECU, it overboosted to 18.1 psi. This figure was given by a Select Monitor and Steve Lawson was using it at the time, so I believe it!! Also it was a cold day, so it was more likely to happen.

2) Be careful here. I now run a boost controller holding the boost at 1.18bar/17.1psi. I run this along side the above combination. I use Super Unleaded, and have been trying out the NF booster, although it was the cleaner rather than the octance booster at the time.

So more octane than most PPP owners, and less boost (17.1psi) than some PPP owners. About a week ago, with fair conditions (15 celius) the car lit up my KnockLink. It only went to the first amber, but bear in mind that normally no lights light up!

Fair enough, it was high revs, about 4,500rpm in fourth and it lit up on changing up to fifth.

Hasn't happened since, but then again I haven't driven it as hard recently.

3) See above!! - I don't wish to scaremonger, just reporting what I saw with the conditions stated.

4) I'm very paranoid as well, and have taken reasonable precautions. If you go down this route, use super unleaded and contact BRD for a KnockLink!!

Cheers
Andy

mutant_matt

Thanks very much for your thoughts Andy - I was hoping that keeping the OE Mid section would:

a) Keep some restriction in place to combat Overboost and/or det

b) Keep the noise down enough, but I'm only worried about the noise at cruising speed/part throttle (as large throttle/on boost driving it can be as loud as you like whilst round town and motorway driving)

c) Was planning on giving the car a good thrashing over a few miles to make sure that the CAT was nice and hot before taking it to an MOT station. It's only 7 months old however so don't really have to worry about this for some time but I can't be arsed to be changing the exhaust around just to get through the MOT so a solution that it will pass with is favourable....

Anybody else,

Cheers,

Matt

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Matt,

Side issue:

MY97 with SS b/box, SS d/pipe and standard centre, was louder (!!) than;

MY99 with SS b/box, SS d/pipe and Magnex centre with resonator.

Both were UK cars. Noticed not only by me, but by my regular passengers as well! Might be worth investing in a centre section!!!

Andy

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Matt,

Afriad the noise increase was both inside and out! No scientfic way of telling, just what myself and passengers percieved!

Falkland in Scotland will be able to supply you a Magnex centre with a resonator.

jza,

Forgot to mention that I have an air inductor as well, which may have increased air flow and the likelyhood of overboost??

I can't comment on what Pete thinks, but I think in a previous thread he has said that the PPP with a SS D/P works well (Pre-MY01). And it does!!

Not sure if mine was a one off incident or not, with the Knocklink lighting up! May have been a bad batch of fuel.

As I said before, I'm not judging or scaremongering, only documenting what happened!

Hope this helps
Andy

mutant_matt

Jza,

I wanted to see if there was anybody out there who had done the same as me but I have now mailed Pete as well.....

Andy, what type? Freeer flowing filter (such as ITG), Pod (Like HKS) or Resonator removed but otherwise standard?

Ta,

Matt

[This message has been edited by mutant_matt (edited 18 June 2001).]

dowser

I've got a my00 with PPP, SS d/p and induction mods. In the winter I had overboost a couple of times - all OK now summer's here.

Bought a knocklink and I'm seeing no det at all - same as Andy, I occasionally get the first light (not the power one) to blink on high rev gear changes.

I haven't fitted the lamdalink yet - so don't what fuel ratio it's actually running. I've also bought a second brass restrictor to try to improve the boost control feedback loop's response (reason for the overboost) - haven't played with it yet.

Richard

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Matt,

I'm running a Unifilter RamPod inductor, with a MRT cold air feed pipe replacing the resonator. Recently replaced the bonnet blank with a scoop as well.

Andy

mutant_matt

I had an email discussion with Pete C where I emailed him the same questions I posted above and got:

The DP works brilliantly with this set up. We haven't tested it yet with an 01, but on all previous models it is a great (and safe)
enhancement to the PPP set up

I asked:

With just the OE centre Cat do you think it'll pass an MOT? Also, there definitely won't be any problems with overboosting or detonation??

Pete responded:

We haven't seen any overboost or det when using this set up and it should *just* get through an MOT with just the centre cat.

So it seems that you're OK on the overboost/det front as long as you don't have any induction mods and it should just scrape through the MOT.

Ta,

Matt

Dave T-S

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mutant_matt:
<B>Guys,

4. Am I being completely paranoid and should just do it and shut up???

Matt [/quote]


YES

mutant_matt

Thanks for joining in with a well reasoned and considered response Dave

Matt

Dave T-S

Anything you can do......

Jza

Dave - have you had the DP fitted yet? When they say its noisey - do they mean NOISEY or is it just a bit harsher? Looks like PPP and DP then!!!

All - devils advocate time:

Ive read about DP's and PPP's and Mike Wood said that you shouldnt mess with the DP, as the chip has been mapped to the exhaust - so that if you change it you risk damage.

He warned that it shouldnt be changed.

So how can say Scoobysport be getting benefits when Mike Wood says you shouldnt do it.

Any comments?

Jza

mutant_matt

Hmmmmm - Pete C, can you clear this up???

Matt

John Stevenson

Matt, I have an HKS downpipe and a SS backbox, last week I removed centre cat and installed a Magnex centre. It didn't get any louder.


---john---

dowser

Jza

I doubt Mike Wood is going to give you the OK to void your warranty....might not prove the best way to maintain Prodrive's relationship with Subaru

Having said that, I have hit overboost - it's a pretty violent thing to happen and can't be good for the mechanical's longevity....which is why I'll address it before winter.

Regards
Richard

Jza

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by dowser:
<B>Jza

I doubt Mike Wood is going to give you the OK to void your warranty....might not prove the best way to maintain Prodrive's relationship with Subaru

Having said that, I have hit overboost - it's a pretty violent thing to happen and can't be good for the mechanical's longevity....which is why I'll address it before winter.

Regards
Richard[/quote]

Cheers Richard - agree with you totally about Prodrive.

I was just interested in how a chip thats designed to work with a certain exhaust can work BETTER with something its not designed to work with. Im trying to expand my knowledge here. Do the chips have the ability to "change" a bit to cope with the extra air?? If so it all makes sense.

I guess there's a finite point where the changes go too far and produce this "overboost" situation.

Im not having a go at anyone by the way - just interested in the how's and why's.

Cheers

Jza

Dave T-S

Jza
Full system fitted on our MY01's. It's disappointingly quiet on a MY01 compared to our MY00's because there is an additional small cat in the manifolding upstream of the turbo (but when Pete gets the equal length headers done..... ).

Prodrive are concerned that someone will have a d/p fitted, plus a PPP, the car may go beyond the capabilities of the ECU map (overboost/det/insufficient retard etc), the engine will go pop, the miscreant will put the original d/p back on and claim a new engine under warranty. I understand their concerns.

A Link may be the enswer.....

Dave T-S

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jza:

I was just interested in how a chip thats designed to work with a certain exhaust can work BETTER with something its not designed to work with.

Jza[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last post same time as yours....

The d/p will allow the turbo to spool up quicker and with less back pressure. It effectively adds to the advantages of the PPP ECU the same as a d/p adds to a standard car.

The problem is if, or when, it adds too much.....

chuckster

I might have missed this being posted above but...Matt, once you've fitted a d/p you will have no cats at all, the full PPP includes a decat centre section - it looks identical on the outside, but there is no cat in it.
Chuck

Matt Churchill

Matt,

Thought I'd return the favour and reply on your post!

Having said that I've just got a SS system, so I can only comment on this - as far as I'm concerned runs fine, having just put in a KnN induction , I'm still not getting any overboost - not sure if the ECU would alter this.

When it comes to noise on a long journey, that's what God invented stereos for

Anyway I would think that you want to concentrate on a respray as well, so it doesn't look like a cheap imitation of mine

See you around

Matt

mutant_matt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Matt Churchill:
<B>Having said that I've just got a SS system, so I can only comment on this - as far as I'm concerned runs fine, having just put in a KnN induction , I'm still not getting any overboost[/quote]

Overboost is not at the top of my concerns list as it's easy to know when it's happening and you can (to a degree) drive round it. It's Detonation that I'm concerned about which you don't know is going on without a Knocklink or taking the head off and looking at the pistons. The question was SSDP + PPP - SSDP by itself I know is fine....From the responses so far, it seems that SSDP + PPP is fine as long as you don't go induction as well...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR><B>Anyway I would think that you want to concentrate on a respray as well, so it doesn't look like a cheap imitation of mine[/quote]

Ha ha ha - very funny

Matt

mutant_matt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by chuckster:
<B>once you've fitted a d/p you will have no cats at all, the full PPP includes a decat centre section - it looks identical on the outside, but there is no cat in it.[/quote]

Cheers Chuck - I didn't mean "full" PPP i.e. not getting the PPP mid section - was planning on keeping that standard....

I don't want too much noise increase - I don't want to go around setting poor little Golf's alarms off in public now do I - Very anti-social

Matt

Matt Churchill

Matt,

Don't worry about being anti-social, louder the better I say

Give me a shout next time your up this way.

Matt

PeterPerfect

Mutant, have you experience of setting Golf alarms off then ?

mutant_matt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stef:
<B>I haven't seen any det problems and I'm running an induction kit with a d/p and PPP.[/quote]

Have you got a Knocklink? Presumably you're talking about *before* you intalled your FMIC right? 'cos after, you deff shouldn't get any Det....

Ta,

Matt

mutant_matt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by PeterPerfect:
<B>Mutant, have you experience of setting Golf alarms off then ?[/quote]

No but Chuck has.....

Matt

Stef

Matt.
I haven't seen any det problems and I'm running an induction kit with a d/p and PPP.

Stef.