initial impression of the APS intercooler and filter
05 July 2001, 08:07 PM
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hi there
I have just fitted my APS front mounted intercooler and their cold induction kit. very impressive and substantial piece of kit. the kit included every bolt, clip, tie back and screw you will ever need. plus some handy paper template for modifying the front bumper.
I got it the kit fitted at Falkland and it took them 3 hours to fit it, which is very quick. That is due to the fact that I had a good phone conversation with APS about fitting the kit so there was no surprises or guess work. We knew what to do and did it kind of thing. if any one is fitting the same kit and need few pointers contact me off line
Initially when I took the car for a test drive it felt more laggy and less responsive which was disappointing. The top end power was soooo much better though. very few adjustments needed to the boost parameters via the link ecu and we are back on track.
most of the lag is gone now and the car felt so much stronger through out. Not that much adjusting was needed to the fuelling which surprised me, but it is a very warm day today and the car was probably running slightly richer to start with.
Ignition advance even at this weather was advanced by 2-3 degrees at the top end. which adds to the torque, although the map is not finished yet but I feel that this will be good once finished.
In summary my car is a vicious piece of kit when on full boost and even in this warm weather it wants to break traction in 3rd and 4th gears around twisty roads 
. I presume that I will probably running very close to 300bhp if not more. But again last time it was dyno’d it had 280 bhp and it was not where near as quick as it is now. the only thing that is worrying me now is will the transmission take it ?
I will be getting the car on a dyno with the tmic and the fmic intercooler with the charge temps measured as soon as I come back from my holiday. That is if anyone is interested to see them. Basically I am trying to share the information I am getting with the rest of Scoobynet community. Also I have taken pics of the fitting procedure through out showing the fitting bath ways of the intercooler and the filter. Again if you guys are interested I will post them over here.
I am running 1.3 bar on a UK car MY99, link ecu and VF23.
Now all I need is to save up some more money for the next step
I have just fitted my APS front mounted intercooler and their cold induction kit. very impressive and substantial piece of kit. the kit included every bolt, clip, tie back and screw you will ever need. plus some handy paper template for modifying the front bumper.
I got it the kit fitted at Falkland and it took them 3 hours to fit it, which is very quick. That is due to the fact that I had a good phone conversation with APS about fitting the kit so there was no surprises or guess work. We knew what to do and did it kind of thing. if any one is fitting the same kit and need few pointers contact me off line
Initially when I took the car for a test drive it felt more laggy and less responsive which was disappointing. The top end power was soooo much better though. very few adjustments needed to the boost parameters via the link ecu and we are back on track.
most of the lag is gone now and the car felt so much stronger through out. Not that much adjusting was needed to the fuelling which surprised me, but it is a very warm day today and the car was probably running slightly richer to start with. Ignition advance even at this weather was advanced by 2-3 degrees at the top end. which adds to the torque
, although the map is not finished yet but I feel that this will be good once finished. In summary my car is a vicious piece of kit when on full boost
and even in this warm weather it wants to break traction in 3rd and 4th gears around twisty roads . I presume that I will probably running very close to 300bhp if not more. But again last time it was dyno’d it had 280 bhp and it was not where near as quick as it is now. the only thing that is worrying me now is will the transmission take it ?I will be getting the car on a dyno with the tmic and the fmic intercooler with the charge temps measured as soon as I come back from my holiday. That is if anyone is interested to see them. Basically I am trying to share the information I am getting with the rest of Scoobynet community. Also I have taken pics of the fitting procedure through out showing the fitting bath ways of the intercooler and the filter. Again if you guys are interested I will post them over here.
I am running 1.3 bar on a UK car MY99, link ecu and VF23.
Now all I need is to save up some more money for the next step
05 July 2001, 08:14 PM
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Sam,
Have you any way of checking the intake temps ? It would be good for comparing the various FMIC's we're now being offered.
Mark.
Have you any way of checking the intake temps ? It would be good for comparing the various FMIC's we're now being offered.
Mark.
05 July 2001, 08:15 PM
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Edited because I hit enter accidently with just Hi Sam and it posted before I coul continue. Doh, Oh WREXY you goose.
[This message has been edited by WREXY (edited 05 July 2001).]
[This message has been edited by WREXY (edited 05 July 2001).]
05 July 2001, 08:23 PM
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Hi Sam,
Thanks for letting us know how you went with the APS induction kit. Glad you like it. I too felt a big gain in power, although I saw no lag, or no extra lag I should say, as I'm still running the stock TD04 turbo.
What induction kit were you running before and how do you compare?
The dyno and temp results will be appreciated and the photo's will definately help others that would be interested.
Regards,
WREXY.
Thanks for letting us know how you went with the APS induction kit. Glad you like it. I too felt a big gain in power, although I saw no lag, or no extra lag I should say, as I'm still running the stock TD04 turbo.
What induction kit were you running before and how do you compare?
The dyno and temp results will be appreciated and the photo's will definately help others that would be interested.
Regards,
WREXY.
05 July 2001, 08:24 PM
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hi mark
the plan was to get this done at the same time. i have connected up an air temp probe which is very similar to what gavin P is using on his charge cooler. and it was working great for one day !!! ooops i have tightened the clips around the intercooler outlet so hard that i flatened the wires and short circuited the probe, D'oh. so i am getting a custom probe with braided S/S wires made for me. but they won't be available for couple of weeks. protherm who are providing the probe are going off on holiday for 2 weeks as of tomorrow evening.
saying that i was getting 33-35degrees on cruise, 38-40degrees on idle
and 38degrees and rising on boost.
hi werxy
the lag will not really be associated with the induction kit. it is the intercooler that will cause it. that is to do with the length of the hoses and the size of the intercooler. the bigger the intercooler the more lag you are going to get. the standard one looks tiny in comparison. i had a K&N induction before again the whole car feels so much stronger it feels like a different car all together. it so much more resposive at the top end, most likely because the reduced pressure drop assocaited with the standard one.
[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 05 July 2001).]
the plan was to get this done at the same time. i have connected up an air temp probe which is very similar to what gavin P is using on his charge cooler. and it was working great for one day !!! ooops i have tightened the clips around the intercooler outlet so hard that i flatened the wires and short circuited the probe, D'oh. so i am getting a custom probe with braided S/S wires made for me. but they won't be available for couple of weeks. protherm who are providing the probe are going off on holiday for 2 weeks as of tomorrow evening.
saying that i was getting 33-35degrees on cruise, 38-40degrees on idle
and 38degrees and rising on boost. hi werxy
the lag will not really be associated with the induction kit. it is the intercooler that will cause it. that is to do with the length of the hoses and the size of the intercooler. the bigger the intercooler the more lag you are going to get. the standard one looks tiny in comparison.
i had a K&N induction before again the whole car feels so much stronger it feels like a different car all together. it so much more resposive at the top end, most likely because the reduced pressure drop assocaited with the standard one.[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 05 July 2001).]
05 July 2001, 08:33 PM
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r u talking about the filter ? i am talking about the front mounted intercooler. the filter is just a straight forward thing but still very impressive though, the build quality is very good.
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05 July 2001, 08:46 PM
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Sorry m8 my mistake I read it too fast. I forgot, I assumed you had the fmic already and it was only the air induction kit that you fitted. Just realised you fitted both. Disregard my questions as they would not make sense. Ofcourse you would have to modify the bumper and ofcourse you can't compare the induction kits cause the fmic has been replaced at the same time. And ofcourse you would have lag. No wonder it took 3 hours. I was thinking why 3 hours?Again my appologies, had friends over and had one too many to drink. What a muckup.
Post those pics please!!!! Especially the fmic ones.
Regards,
WREXY.
[This message has been edited by WREXY (edited 05 July 2001).]
05 July 2001, 09:37 PM
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hi rich
i have connected it in that small hose between the intercooler and the throttle body. just slacken the jubilee clip slid the probe then tighten again.
have you fitted yours yet ? how are you getting on with it ? you can mail me off line if you want.
cheers
sam
i have connected it in that small hose between the intercooler and the throttle body. just slacken the jubilee clip slid the probe then tighten again.
have you fitted yours yet ? how are you getting on with it ? you can mail me off line if you want.
cheers
sam
06 July 2001, 11:31 PM
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Sam,once the Link was tweaked are you saying that there was no extra lag at all,or that the extra lag was compensated for by the extra gains you got at the top end. Cheers,Deep.
07 July 2001, 01:58 AM
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Deep
there is a little lag still, but i am getting close to making things better. you will have to get some sort of lag more than with the TMIC because the path is longer. also the intercooler is almost 2.5 times bigger. but what you can do with the link is modify the boost profile to maybe induce some overboost in the midrange to get the turbo to spool up quicker. ( that is one idea) remember you can actually afford to run a little more something with the front mount. ie more advance, more boost what ever you are aiming for. thats is why you are fitting one. if your charge temp are high due to too much boost that the standard intercooler can not cope with then you fit one, if you are only running 1.1 with the standrad turbo you do not really need one. 1.2bar is kind border line depending on the size of turbo you are using. any thing above that and you really need one as the standard intercooler starts loosing pressure at the top end which means your turbo will have to work harder at the top end to maintian the higher boost which means more heat.
it is very difficult to explain how the car feels, the boost tragets and full boost are achieved at the same rpm as before. but it is slower at the lower revs then it pulls you back quicker kind of thing. and once the system is pressurised ( part throttle ) and you floor it the car is awesome.
unfortunately i have not really had time to map it properely as i was working. i will see what it can really do over the week end
there is a little lag still, but i am getting close to making things better. you will have to get some sort of lag more than with the TMIC because the path is longer. also the intercooler is almost 2.5 times bigger. but what you can do with the link is modify the boost profile to maybe induce some overboost in the midrange to get the turbo to spool up quicker. ( that is one idea) remember you can actually afford to run a little more something with the front mount. ie more advance, more boost what ever you are aiming for. thats is why you are fitting one. if your charge temp are high due to too much boost that the standard intercooler can not cope with then you fit one, if you are only running 1.1 with the standrad turbo you do not really need one. 1.2bar is kind border line depending on the size of turbo you are using. any thing above that and you really need one as the standard intercooler starts loosing pressure at the top end which means your turbo will have to work harder at the top end to maintian the higher boost which means more heat.
it is very difficult to explain how the car feels, the boost tragets and full boost are achieved at the same rpm as before. but it is slower at the lower revs then it pulls you back quicker kind of thing. and once the system is pressurised ( part throttle ) and you floor it the car is awesome
.unfortunately i have not really had time to map it properely as i was working. i will see what it can really do over the week end
07 July 2001, 10:00 PM
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Hi sam
what do you mean vicious piece of kit . You couldnt pass my97 uk spec over 4to5 laps on a track night . my car was the one with the wrx engine with the uk spec ecu that you told me wouldnt work .so is that why i constantly out dragged you up the straight untill my small 2pot brakes caught fire .
yours ssubaru
ps only kidding your car is some piece of kit but mine WAS just as quick on that night hope you have got it running ok now
what do you mean vicious piece of kit . You couldnt pass my97 uk spec over 4to5 laps on a track night . my car was the one with the wrx engine with the uk spec ecu that you told me wouldnt work .so is that why i constantly out dragged you up the straight untill my small 2pot brakes caught fire .
yours ssubaru
ps only kidding your car is some piece of kit but mine WAS just as quick on that night hope you have got it running ok now
07 July 2001, 11:06 PM
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ssubaru
your car was fast but you have to admit i was quite a bit faster. or how would you explain catching up with you and passing you in the first place but again you are running a wrx engine at 20-21psi in that 97spec car that is a lot of boost mate i was only running 17-18 at the time.
i have just altered the map and the boost setting and my car is running faster that it has ever done before and i have only spent around 30min tweeking it. there is a lot more to go yet.
are you going to knockhill at the end of this month. ? are you ready for this i will give you a head start 
deep
i have just had a conversation with The talented Mr Rawle and the car is back to even better than what it was. the restrictor place has been changed to accomodate the new intercooler and the map has been altered in the top and low end ( advance) i am running probably more advance than a standard sti it is really very impressive now low and top end
sam
[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 08 July 2001).]
your car was fast but you have to admit i was quite a bit faster.
or how would you explain catching up with you and passing you in the first place but again you are running a wrx engine at 20-21psi in that 97spec car that is a lot of boost mate i was only running 17-18 at the time. i have just altered the map and the boost setting and my car is running faster that it has ever done before
and i have only spent around 30min tweeking it. there is a lot more to go yet. are you going to knockhill at the end of this month. ? are you ready for this i will give you a head start
deep
i have just had a conversation with The talented Mr Rawle and the car is back to even better than what it was. the restrictor place has been changed to accomodate the new intercooler and the map has been altered in the top and low end ( advance) i am running probably more advance than a standard sti
it is really very impressive now low and top end sam
[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 08 July 2001).]
08 July 2001, 10:43 AM
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Erm....to quote, "how would you explain catching up with you and passing you in the first place".
What about them luverly AP 4 pots you have?......
Plus your knowledge of the track......
I take it your happy with the intercooler then?
Speaktya soon Sam
A
What about them luverly AP 4 pots you have?......
Plus your knowledge of the track......
I take it your happy with the intercooler then?
Speaktya soon Sam
A
08 July 2001, 11:50 AM
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oh who is that. alanG !!!! are you still alive ?
so what you are saying Alan that the AP do all the work plus my driving ability :blush:
actually you are more than welcome to try the car next time we meet. to see what you think.
have you got my email ?
[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 08 July 2001).]
so what you are saying Alan that the AP do all the work
plus my driving ability :blush:actually you are more than welcome to try the car next time we meet. to see what you think.
have you got my email ?
[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 08 July 2001).]
08 July 2001, 01:22 PM
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LO Bud
Been really busy at the mo...
Can only access your mail remotely at the moment so can`t send you the Knocky piccys you want.
At the next meet i`ll put them on a disc for you as there is 195 of them!!!!
I`m up for trying your car out Sam.....cheers!!
Catchya
A
Been really busy at the mo...
Can only access your mail remotely at the moment so can`t send you the Knocky piccys you want.
At the next meet i`ll put them on a disc for you as there is 195 of them!!!!
I`m up for trying your car out Sam.....cheers!!
Catchya
A
09 July 2001, 09:34 AM
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what event is it that you are doing at K/hill at the end of the month,I think there is a hot hatch day next weekend but do not think there are any top marques evenings this month? 
john
john
09 July 2001, 09:43 AM
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wrexy
i am gald you like it. there is few more pics for the intercooler but also i will need to add some captions to explain things better. also there will be a graphs from dynos before and after. but that won't be for couple of weeks though. i have also got a lip spoiler to fit at some point
once that is finished i will need to do the link section. this should keep me entertained for a long time
john you are right i just assumed that there will be one like every month. oh well i may be tempted to travel a bit to get my july fix
sam
[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 09 July 2001).]
i am gald you like it. there is few more pics for the intercooler but also i will need to add some captions to explain things better. also there will be a graphs from dynos before and after. but that won't be for couple of weeks though. i have also got a lip spoiler to fit at some point
once that is finished i will need to do the link section
. this should keep me entertained for a long time john you are right
i just assumed that there will be one like every month. oh well i may be tempted to travel a bit to get my july fix sam
[This message has been edited by Sam Elassar (edited 09 July 2001).]
09 July 2001, 11:40 AM
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Hi Sam,
Interesting foties. Where did you get this intercooler from and dare I ask how much? I'm thinking about this as my next step and other possibilities that I have in mind are the Hyperflow as fitted by Stef (I'm definitely not keen on the way the hoses hang down below the bumper on that one, though) and the HKS. Both these are available for around the Ł1K mark from Tyres Northampton and DR Motorsport respectively. Cheers.
Raymond.
Interesting foties. Where did you get this intercooler from and dare I ask how much? I'm thinking about this as my next step and other possibilities that I have in mind are the Hyperflow as fitted by Stef (I'm definitely not keen on the way the hoses hang down below the bumper on that one, though) and the HKS. Both these are available for around the Ł1K mark from Tyres Northampton and DR Motorsport respectively. Cheers.
Raymond.
09 July 2001, 12:29 PM
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Hi Sam,
Thanks for posting the pics, it has helped me to understand better, the fitting of the APS FMIC. Will there be more pics? The site will be interesting when finished too. Great stuff.
WREXY.
Thanks for posting the pics, it has helped me to understand better, the fitting of the APS FMIC. Will there be more pics? The site will be interesting when finished too. Great stuff.
WREXY.
10 July 2001, 12:56 AM
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Sam,
Did you copy any of the webpage text or graphics from the APS website? If so, I think you may need copyright permission.
I'm only asking as the pictures and text look very similar in places to those on the APS site and it's better to err on the side of caution when gathering content for websites.
Moray
Did you copy any of the webpage text or graphics from the APS website? If so, I think you may need copyright permission.
I'm only asking as the pictures and text look very similar in places to those on the APS site and it's better to err on the side of caution when gathering content for websites.
Moray
10 July 2001, 02:01 PM
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Sam,
as there are no top marques days this month at K/hill,would you consider doing a hot hatch day on the 15th,there are definitely a few cars that do them,that would give you a run for your money.I spectated at the last one and there was two stripped out cossies that where not only very fast but also very well driven,a high hp Audi and an Evo 6,that both used to do top marques days but they reckon that these hot hatch days are better as they are cheaper and give the cars a longer cool down between sessions rather than cramming everything into 2hrs.signing on is at 8:30am and cars are limited so you have to be there sharp,I am hoping to make it and am going to see what type of cars are going on before I decide.I am sure they only allow road cars now,not old bangers.
john
as there are no top marques days this month at K/hill,would you consider doing a hot hatch day on the 15th,there are definitely a few cars that do them,that would give you a run for your money.I spectated at the last one and there was two stripped out cossies that where not only very fast but also very well driven,a high hp Audi and an Evo 6,that both used to do top marques days but they reckon that these hot hatch days are better as they are cheaper and give the cars a longer cool down between sessions rather than cramming everything into 2hrs.signing on is at 8:30am and cars are limited so you have to be there sharp,I am hoping to make it and am going to see what type of cars are going on before I decide.I am sure they only allow road cars now,not old bangers.
john
10 July 2001, 10:27 PM
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lo there sam
See u got it fitted then m8,
Does it make that much of a diffrence now.
U is letting big A drive, OOHHH MII GGOOOOODDDDD, he'll have those AP'S in pieces m8 don't do it.
Will have to blag a couple of passenger run's in it .
John(tuk) How's the wheel m8,did u manage to get sumfine sorted out with it.Nothing else from your little of road experiance.
Will see u all soon
Dougie+Diana
See u got it fitted then m8,
Does it make that much of a diffrence now.
U is letting big A drive, OOHHH MII GGOOOOODDDDD, he'll have those AP'S in pieces m8 don't do it.
Will have to blag a couple of passenger run's in it .
John(tuk) How's the wheel m8,did u manage to get sumfine sorted out with it.Nothing else from your little of road experiance.
Will see u all soon
Dougie+Diana
