scoobyGLx

In hope of someone telling me this is normal, my engine is making a 'louder than I can remember' tapping-like noise from both sides of the engine. Thinking that this would go away if i ignored it for a bit but seems to be getting louder (or it might just be my imagination).

The noise stays with the engine if its in motion, idle, warm or cold. Any ideas? Would it be worth getting someone professional to take a gander at it? I usually do any work on the car myself but this is far beyond my scope.

Car: MY99 GL 2.0 (Owned Since March '03 - Last Oil & Filter Service Early Dec '03)
Mods: Full Decat H&S Afterburner Exhaust System

Any ideas would be grateful

Cheers, Lee


edited due to my grammer

[Edited by scoobyGLx - 1/6/2004 3:17:54 PM]

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

ScoobyGLx,

That year model has shimmed tappets so the possibility of hydraulics sticking is not valid.

It could be piston slap but that's usually on one or two cylinders not, in my experience, on all equally at the same time.

I presume all fluid levels are OK??

It could possibly be the timing belt tensioner, which can rattle and being placed in the front middle-ish could sound equally around the engine.

In the light of no obvious conclusion, I would take it very carefully to your nearest dealer for a listen to.

Not an easy one to diagnose over the ether !!

Good luck - let us all know David API Engines

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Or it could just be the injectors..

Compare it to another car Impreza if you can..

JGM

scoobyGLx

cheers for the replies lads ..

Oil levels are fine, I check them every week along with the other fluids.

I 'was' thinking about the timing belt tensioner, since Ive recently had the timing belt done (10th Sept) and read a few threads on here about this problem, but as it was more prominent from the top of the engine I counted this one out. Also I wasn’t sure if the noise was there before the timing belt change, its like it suddenly appeared.

If this is the case, how much of a problem is this to rectify, and will it cause a problem in the short-run???

Unfortunately I'm in the middle of nowhere and only occasionally meet up with fellow scooby owners, would be nice to get a second opinion on this but alas dont know anybody close enough.

Might have to take it to specialist then (nearest dealer is 150miles away!) .. just hope it will be ok for the run up to Birmingham NEC this weekend.

Thanks again





[Edited by scoobyGLx - 1/6/2004 6:11:15 PM]

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

ScoobyGLx,

The problem with the tensioner, if it is that, is one of lack of tension. The preloaded tensioner can get air in it if it hasn't been reset correctly and as such is pumping in and out.

It is possible [just] for it to throw the belt right off with consequent damage. I wouldn't drive a Subaru anywhere that was making any sort of tapping / knocking without qualified opinion on the fact that the noise is nothing to worry about.

You really need to get it looked at ASAP.

Drive anywhere slowly and at the lowest revs possible just in case.

David API

scoobyGLx

David,

cheers for the reply, you've got me a bit worried now, especially with the "Drive anywhere slowly and at the lowest revs possible just in case." ... I aint gonna say what ive been up to for the last 2 months.

Might give a local specialist a ring today and see if they wouldnt mind taking a look at it and confirming that it is (or isnt) the tensioner.

Just out of curiosity, would it be easy for a joe bloggs like me to re-reset the tensioner? or would you recommended someone who actually knows what their doing?

Thanks for the advice though.

Cheers, Lee

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Lee,, Not really a job for an enthusiastic amateur - can be done but the potential for disaster is quite high.

David PS call me if you want some reassurance, we are diagnosing this blind and it may be nothing to worry about.

scoobyGLx

David,

after your advice I thought it would be best to get someone professional to take a gander, just to be on the safe side .. booked it in for Monday with a local motorsport specialist (DRJ Motors 60 mile 'round trip ), so ive just got to wait till then I suppose.

Looking back at the history, the timing belt was done in Oct'03 with 50.5k miles on it, and as its just over 52.2k now, so if something was wrong then something would have happened by now (well thats my theory).

Thanks the offer with the call, much appreciated, and also with your help, guess i'll just have to sit this one out till Monday.

Think I'll have to take a steady ride up to the Autosport Show now .. old granny driving here I come




[Edited by scoobyGLx - 1/7/2004 11:33:12 AM]

JIM THEO

Well in my WRX03 I changed recently belt tensioner along with one "unbalanced" crank shaft pulley and changed also oil. My noise (hearable only below 1350rpms and only for the first few minutes at iddle when engine is cold) almost dissapeared for two days. Now is back and I am sure it's more loud from turbo side, I guess it's not related with tensioner that comes from the factory with the pin inserted and preloaded so it's quite interesting to hear how can be installed wrong as you only have to install it and take off the pin?
My car also drink some oil and I am curious is this piston slap or tensioner again?
JIM

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Jim, We have found that if you pretension the adjuster in a horizontal plane [ IE a vice ] then they are perfect every time.

If you pretension it in a press in a vertical plane they can get air trapped inside and rattle like a badly blown big end.

They can of course just go wrong at any time.

Kind regards David API

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

But none of his descriptions sounds like the tensioner..

Sounds like injectors (except for the getting louder which might be paronoia) or tappets.. try a different oil..
I found no noise from my 141,000miles tappets with Motul 300V 15W50, slight noise on Mobil 1 Motorsport 15W50 and lots of noise on the ****e semi synthetic the dealer used to fill it with.

JGM

scoobyGLx

JGM,

I think the "getting" louder is my paranoia, its like when you hear a squeak or a rattle for the first time, you notice it every time you get in the car, and you swear its getting louder.

Not sure what oil was put in it when I got it from the dealers forecourt (Audi/VW not Subaru) back in March and also when it was last serviced in Sept 03 (67,5K/54mth service), but I did an interim service in December myself and replaced the Oil with Silkolene Pro S 10W-50 along with the Oil Filter (Genuine Subaru) & Air Filter. The Oil was recommended by the chaps at TSL. I can remember the 'tap' noise from before the interim service as I thought it might be the oil, but this didn’t solve it so I just went on the assumption that it was normal behavior.

The trouble is I only hear the noise every now and then, but im sure its constant, Ive got a full de-cat so the exhaust tends to drown out any engine noise. After a short or long blast I can park up, open up the bonet and it sounds exactly like it does when I first start it on a cold morning. I hear more while driving at low speeds too as the exhaust aint so prominent.

Suppose i'll just have to wait for the second opinion on Monday.

If it was the injectors, would they just start tapping suddenly without any intervention? or do they develop over time? also is this likely going to be a big problem if it is the injectors? I like to brace myself for the worst

cheers, Lee

JIM THEO

*** Lee sorry, I don't want to hi jack your thread but as the above information is interesting for most of us I'd like to ask again David ***

David it's strange but the service manual (from older turbo) says the opposite: "...a lateral vice must NOT be used to retract the tensioner's adjuster rod or damage will result..."
The guys at Subaru service just installed the tensioner as it was already preloaded and secured with a pin, they didn't had to
do anything except unpack it and bolt it in the car so I am really curious why it failed again if this is what happens?
Of course may be it's something else as the noise is present only under 1350rpms (may be 1400 when very cold) and only for the first few minutes!
Other posibilities? Boost solenoid, oil-water pumps or worse piston slap (Subaru claims that there isn't even one case with piston slap on WRX03)?
JIM

PS: Lee, good luck with your problem...

scoobyGLx

no problem Jim.

If other people can help you out as well as me then its a bonus

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Apologies guys for not clarifying. The 'early tensioner', cylindrical with 2 bolt lugs attached, should be done horizontally. The later one with the pulley wheel attached should be done vertically - carefully, at least 2 or 3 pumps to get it pressurised correctly. Durr.

JGM, I think it unlikely that all 4 injectors will start to rattle simultaneously. However we do have experience of noise transfer all over the engine from a rattly tensioner. Ditto tappets, as I said first off, it's shimmed tappets on this age and again they won't all start together.

Jim It could be the boost solenoid bracket rubbers which cause the rattle to transmit through the bodywork but I think unlikely as this is a non turbo car!! LOL However if there is a bracket in a similar place on a non turbo then it's worth a look.

ScoobyGLx just loosen the screws a touch, drivers side suspension mount turret, a few solenoids attached to a bracket. Just loosen the screws that hold the bracket to the wing a little and see what happens. New rubbers fixes it if so, or remove the steel tube inside the rubber to get a softer mount for a while.

I don't think it's piston slap as all 4 together also seems unlikely.

We'll have to wait and see on Monday I suspect.

David API

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

I was refering to the click sound when they open/close.

Is the 99 has shims then oil is indeed unlikely to effect tappet noise..

JGM

JIM THEO

David actually I ask about my car that is a WRX03 but your answer is clear, thanks.
JIM

[Edited by JIM THEO - 1/8/2004 9:32:47 AM]

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

New Years resolution:

I will read all correspondence in threads throughly.

LOL David API

PS When I find my glasses.

tooty

API - WOULD YOU RECOMMEND PUTTING BRAKE FLUID INTO THE OIL TO THIN THE OIL AND HELP TO CURE HYDRAULIC LOCK. I HAVE HEARD THAT THIS IS A CURE FOR TAPPET PROBLEMS IF THEY HAVE COLLAPSED.
OR WOULD YOU RECOMMEND REPLACING THE OFFENDING ITEMS.

Turbo_Steve

TBH it might be the injectors.

Mine 'suddenly started' making a clattering noise one cold morning and it has never gone away since. Funny thing was, I started listening to other Subarus, and they all do it too!

So it could simply be a case of paranoia.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Tooty, DO NOT use brake fluid. We use 1 litre of ATF [auto trans fluid] Drain off one litre for the sump replace with one litre ATF and drive for 200 miles -ish. Drain again and refill with oil of you choice 10W40 and upwards standard or synthetic. Fit a new prefilled oil filter.

Hey Presto!! if it can be fixed it will be, providing the tappets aren't totally worn out.

Steve_Turbo, maybe we'll see on Monday

David APi Engines

Turbo_Steve

As David correctly said...if in doubt...get someone who knows what they are doing to check it

tooty

My teppets have been making a pronounced tapping noise for nearly a year now. Maybe i am paranoid too! But it is definately tapping. More niticable at tickover as the engine noise drowns it out above 2500rpm. Cant hear it when driving either.
Do you think it is okay to carry on ignoring it? Or could my engine just be a timebomb?
How much would it be to have four new tappets fitted (95wrx) And i mean new not second hand!
My car also uses oil at a fair rate. If i do a 200mile run on mainly A road and motoway driving moderately hard it will use nearly 3/4 of a litre of oil. Why? The engine was a rebuilt unit approx 1 year ago. It has used oil all the time since the rebuild.
Is it poor piston to cylinder sealing. Or are there other reasons for impreza's using oil.

scoobyGLx

UPDATE!

Just for all those who are curious to what the outcome was.

Im happy to say that it was a false alarm, the sound is the injectors and is perfectly normal. The helpful chap at DRJ took it out for a drive after having a look at idle and couldn’t see any problems with the engine at all, response after testing was .. "its running perfectly".

So it was just my paranoia, but I feel much happier now I know if not a feeling a bit stupid

Many thanks to all those who helped me out (David and JGM).

cheers, Lee

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Excellent.,.



JGM

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Good result - better safe than a rebuild

David API