911

Some of you probably have read about it in Jap Car Magazine. I hill climb my Sti V3 and suffer from high inlet temperatures etc. this device sounds good in the Demon Tweeks catalogue, not too expensive, but has anyone done it and what was the benefit?
Interested to find out before I have a go!
Graham.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Quitea few have doneit.John Felstead recently did it on his car, and i think the results were quite good. Perhapshe may clarify better. However, he has recently sold his system.

Steven

nom

Good if your car is prone to detting (due to only cruddy fuel available locally, or high inlet temps through one reason or another...). It's likely to only enhance performance if you are able to advance your timing - simply squirting water in (even if it's done right!) will remove power unless you're getting such a lot of retard it's reducing power enough to counteract the power removal of sticking water into the AF mix...
However - if you can advance timing (or the car is available to advance timing itself, presumably ) then stick a 50:50 mix of methanol:water into the fluid & you can get reduced det and additional power.
Which is much better

john banks

Can you squirt methanol on your windscreen?

ERL say most windscreen washer additive it OK.

What do the guys use who inject from the washer bottle ?

nom

I ran out of screen wash in mid-winter before, so made up an exciting concoction of meths & fairy liquid. Was oddly cloudy & smelled a bit peculiar, but worked a treat. Interesting shade of purple, too.
Not sure it would be very good to squirt into the engine though... or maybe this is Optimax's secret?

[Edited by nom - 12/14/2003 10:46:40 PM]

sg72

John

ERL kit states Methanol only!

As normal anti-freeze (Ethyl glycol?)can effect seals in p/p.

Was going to run mine of I/C, W/S tank (Has level warning).

But have left unplumbed(Requires set up on R/R.)

Don't know anyone who could do this.

Took advice from R.C. and Harvey.(Both said same).

Appeared hardly worth the bother.

Steve.

[Edited by sg72 - 12/14/2003 11:02:05 PM]

john banks

I need to do something Steve so I don't cook my pistons.

sg72

John.

Is the kit you have bought Mappable?.

If not you can end up boiling. Instead of roasting.

I.E. Jetting water in when not really req'd.

Steve.

RT

I have a 1s kit on my JDM STI7 type RA. Std engine management.

My PSI3 display is showing me approx 31-32deg ign advance at 4000rpm, 1-1.1bar boost, WOT.

Believe that this is significantly more timing than what can be usually achieved with 98RON fuel on our EJ20's.

Delboy2

I use a 50:50 water/screen wash mix which has a large content of methanol, car runs very well with this Will know how much of a difference it is making later when I fit me EGT thermocouple. The ERL kits are very reliable IMHO, the one I am using on the scoob I have had for about 4 years, it used to be fitted on my old MR2Turbo injecting a 50:50 mix of Isopropanol/Water with no ill effect. Before fitting to the scoob I dismantled it for a clean to find the components in good order



[Edited by Delboy2 - 12/15/2003 6:47:01 AM]

BarkingMad

Does anyone have any photos of an installation into a car with a top mount?

Delboy2

What do you actually want pictures of, jet location?

john banks

Steve, 1S kit is not mappable, but I could add a solenoid at later date and feed it an appropriate signal.

The 1S kit is triggered from a boost switch, so I can't see a problem with injecting water when it is not required.

The higher proportion of water injected in the midrange is no bad thing as this helps control midrange detonation.

RT

Yes I also feel that what John mentions is an added "bonus" since our cars are most succeptible to det in the mid range (max VE).

I'm trying to get my DD up and running - when I do so I can post what the timing looks like over the rpm range with WI. Am really curious to find this out too.

sg72

No probs John.

My concern was with the Daily Driver route.

Earlier systems would be controlled off a throttle position sensor
or a MAP sensor.

I think throttle position wouldn't be much good on a Turbo car.

Least a daily driver anyway.

Running with a MAP led system is better. However Injection still takes place at times when it would not be required (Normally in lower gears on Scoobs).Using more water and reducing power

It would then be better to have a switch control for times when ignition advancement is required without detonation.

Thus allowing ignition to be mapped with the system instead of for it.

Hope this sounds OK.
Steve.

john banks

Ah, the wonder of real time closed loop ignition timing. My engine will benefit from octane even in lower gears.

If the load is lower in a lower gear then it will be running more timing, so still just as close to the edge.

If I run my present timing in 2nd gear without the J&S it will det.

sg72

New you would say this. Well in. John.

Think I was just sort of saying what NOM had said.

Now all you need is a big tank and ensure you don't run out.

Jeez . Thought the 2.5 was to relieve Stress.LOL!

Steve.

RB5_245

Barking, I have pics, will post them later on.

The 1s system should be easy to use on AIT/Boost combo for minimal water use.

I ended up mapping without WI for safety reasons, What if the jet gets blocked or you run out of water... IIRC you had some plan to compensate though john.

I Also don't use methanol, when it's cold you won't be hammering the car anyway (I hope ) and the engine bay temp will melt any ice in the lines soon enough (could drain the pump every night if you're worried about damage). I know this works up to -6 degrees.

I don't like methanol because it's such a good oil solvent, i don't want it cleaning any oil off the liners. Shouldn't be any bother on the windscreen though.

BarkingMad

Thanks, that would be good... Looking for best location of the nozzles as pipework is so much shorter on the top mounts... It would be nice to see some pics of a elegant solution.

UkLegacyT

Graham,

if you are going to buy anything, shop around, or even order from ERL direct, as ive always found demon tweeks are a rip off, its well known.

ian

p.s. you fitted the g.box and diff yet?

nom

...or Mark @ lateral performance - he has a pretty good relationship with ERL & would also get a good price

911

Glad this has sparked off a run of techy comments, thought Scoobynet was getting a bit boring!
For hill climing, you cannot add anything 'addative' due to the rules, ie NitrosOxide naughty things like methanol! Thus water is ok (I think)
Does all this make a real difference? Has anyone actually seen a power/torque increase? Cooling a TMIC fast is hard unless you use CO2. mine gets to engine bay temperature while waiting ticking over for a hill climb run. I want to get instant benefit right on the first blast off the line!
Any comments?
Graham.

911

Nearly forgot you Ian!
The RA front box is in the car, what a real bitch of a job! Took ages, and spent 1 hour getting the box off the 2 bloody location dowels on the engine. the clutch was nearly done for but the flywheel and cover plate were perfect, no grooves. Have an AP organic now and the box still fought me all the way back in. Whoever designed that clutch realease mechanism in Subaru needs to look at how Porsche do it in the early 911's, so similar but so much better!
Hoping to do the rear diff swop this weekend but need some serious brownie points first, so must do the Xmas tree! must order some oil now before Xmas. Hope to give it a blast over the hols.

Hope the job search is over or progressing!

Regards, Graham.

911

Wish Lateral would get their web site actually going, seems Mark is a top draw bloke, nobody complains about him or the products.
Thanks for the advice.
Graham.

Izzy

This is an interesting read. I too read the JP piece on their "project wrx". I have a '93 wrx (small, slanty ic type )which has an induction kit plus decat & free flow hks pipe. She's still managed by the factory ecu though. I'm prety sure there's no problems at the moment - I've had the wrx 3 years, apart from the occational engine cut-out on full on acceleration. I run her solely on good ol Optimax.

I'm considering water injection purely to keep the engine "safe". Obviously the small ic is not going to be as good as a larger, or front mount, & I've heard freeing up the induction & exhaust can cause a raise in boost , which in turn can cause the engine to run hotter & with more risk of det?

The question is; water injection (worth it?) vs (more expensive?) uprated tmic???

911

Issy, I fitted a much largerTMIC to my STi to try to get over the big rise in inlet charge temperature when hill climbing. Despite iced water in the IC spray, the TMIC was as hot after the race (just 50 seconds of it). Took it off and found it weighed 2 x the original STi TMIC, thus 2 x the metal mass to cool in the same time!
Sold it and now trying to find an alternative, hence this thread.
Graham.

Izzy

Cheers Graham, agood point. Seams the water inj is the way to go....