PICKLE

Ran my car at Powerstation on Sat, and got 314.5bhp/268ftlb
(Car is a P1). I made 306.5/262 earlier on in the year, but that was with; Standard Headers - Standard Fuel pump/Reg - and it was Detting!

So, 314.5/268 WITH Gruppe-S headers + Up-pipe, and Lateral Performance Fuel pump/Regulator AND another Re-map
In excess of £550 for 8bhp, that is NOT what I was expecting.

Am I wrong to expect more, as I was led to believe the headers and up-pipe would give me around 15BHP and 20ftlb alone!

Now I recon that the standard Intercooler must be the limiting factor! as the VF28 is on peak boost of 1.4bar

john banks

The errors from one day to another make it difficult to compare fairly small increases, which will no doubt be smaller since I assume it is not detting now when it was before? So the headers have probably bought you a bit of safety and a little bit of power and torque.

To top 300 BHP at Powerstation on a VF28 is a good result full stop.

T-uk

if it did about 330/280 but still detted and blew up shortly afterwards , would you be happier

IMO , it is not a bad result for PS and going any higher will start to throw injector issues.




[Edited by T-uk - 12/8/2003 11:21:06 PM]

Daz34

Can you feel the difference though?

PICKLE

Cheers for the replies. T-uk, fair point! Just a bit disappointed as it feels I have made no/little progress! Car is no longer detting, and goes very well.

The Fixer

Sounds Like you need to get the next stage on board to take full advantage of the mods you have.

Bigger Turbo
Bigger Injectors
Uprated top mount or FMIC

Then you'll be flying!

Conrad

PICKLE

Yeah thats what worries me!! It certainly is a slippery slope
So, Anyone suggest a suitable Turbo for starters!! TD05/SR30/MD-one or another?
What should I do for around 350bhp?

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Could i interest you in a turbo?

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...=278840&Page=1

Steven

T-uk

for 350bhp at PS(similar results to star up here)I think you would need a fmic,550's and probably bigger turbo than a MD304 or TD05-front entry.

R19KET

Have you compared the graphs from your two runs ?

You may find that you've gained throughout the RPM range, but little at the top.

Mark.

PICKLE

Mark, yes I have compared the 2 graphs, and the 2nd one is a bit smoother. A nice flat torque curve from about 4400rpm thru to 6000rpm when it starts to tail off. Peak BHP was at 6830rpm
Can I fit an MD304 and leave the Top mount and 440's Mark??

T-uk

could you post the graphs?

do you have the earlier "large bore" gruppe-s collector/up-pipe or the later "smaller bore" set with flexi?

R19KET

Pickle,

Ok, so how do the torque figures compare, at say 3500, and 4500 rpm ?

Yes you can use 440's with the MD304, and just get it mapped accordingly. Same applies for any turbo.

Mark.

PICKLE

Sorry, can't show the graphs, as don't have a scanner etc The Gruppe-S set I have is the smaller bore I do believe with a Flexi-up pipe.why do you ask?

T-uk

on my own car,

large bore set lost me torque low down/during spool but gained me top end, helps in the pub stakes

small bore improved low down/spool performance but peak earlier at the top end, makes the car nicer to drive especially in the twisties.

john banks

If you want 350 at Powerstation you'll have to work very hard for it, as it is more like 380 at somewhere like PE and arguably nearer 390-400 for Well Lane (as much as you can estimate these things others may disagree).

As I say I think your results are good. Getting more will involve giving up spool up and sacrificing reliability, think carefully.

For an easy 350 BHP at Powerstation, an MD304 or TD05 will not be big enough IMHO, think about something bigger that uses a Mitubishi or Garrett turbine wheel -

e.g. 20G, TMI141, a LP or BRD Garrett/P20 hybrid, possibly SR40

PICKLE

Thanks for the replies everybody, makes me feel a little better knowing some of the people who I think of as the more knowledgeable on here, think my results are good!
Tell me, is it worth me fitting an MD304 turbo and keeping the rest the same? Surely this will give me a bit more ooomph at the same boost pressures I'm running now? (20bhp maybe with map adjustment?)

Andy.F

I wouldn't throw away the VF28 just yet, I think it's the best of the VF bunch (including the hybrids) Didn't Harvey make around 350 bhp at Star performance on this turbo on the Sti. IIRC he was only running 1.3 bar boost.

Andy

R19KET

The VF28 is a nice turbo.

IIRC, Harvey actually got 377bhp at Well lane. Bl00dy impressive for a turbo that flows 12 m3/min (424cfm).

Mark.

sg72

Good grief!
To think I've thrown away my VF 34 (28 with R/Bs.).

Andy YHM. In a minute!

Pavlo

vf34 = vf30 with roller bearings

mikeesingh

iTrader: (3)

pickle,

i had run MD304 on my last sti 5 engine (same as P1) with standard 440 injectors and standard sti top mount, was running 1.4 bar mid range and tailing off to 1.2 bar after 6000rpm, cant remember what it made on the rollers, but i think it was arround 320bhp/300 torque and it did a 1/4 mile in 12.91 in UK car, then had a pace FMIC fitted and upped the mid range boost to 1.5 bar tailing off to 1.2 bar an this 324bhp and 338hp (at well lane) but boost never went above 1.3 on rollers, my best 1/4 mile with this set up was 12.86.

mikee

PICKLE

Mikee, cheers for the info, that is what I was waiting for, some hard figures from someone with similar set up! Have been swayed away from the MD304, as apparently its not much of a step over the VF28 for what I want! BRD may have something to offer yet
Thanks everyone

R19KET

Pickle,

The MD304 had done 12.16 1/4 on Steven Darley's car, and 12.3 on Tim W's. It will flow far more than the VF28, and certainly capable of circa 350bhp.

If you're looking for 380bhp +, there are better options.

Mark.

T-uk

350 at Powerstation

mark, do you have any rolling road graphs that you could post from PS or possibly star to back this up?

even with a fmic, 550's and different mappers using different ECU's , I have never seen an MD304 get close to 350 at PS or star.

harvey's big vf28 result at star is strange IMO but could have been helped in some way with all the supporting mods. at a resent rolling road day an MD304,fmic,550's car , was out performed by a vf28 fitted to a UK. both mapped by the same person, with both owners wanting to run a dawes set at the same boost , rather than fit a 3port or run the crappy 2port.IIRC a ecutekked P1 actually did better than both these cars on the same day.

pickles was there any md304 cars at the r/r you attended?

T-uk

taken from r/r thread

10) Nezz 313 and 270


is this car not similar spec to yours but with a MD304 and possibly large tmic and injectors?

PICKLE

I don't want to get dragged into an arguement over which turbo is better , it was just that I was offered an MD304, and wanted to know if it would noticably improve my car over the VF28! Have since been informed by someone who I trust and know (no offence to any others who have replied) that the MD304 is not what I'm looking for! As for results at PS with MD304, I don't know if anyone had one fitted on the day I was there sorry! Only person I am aware of that has one fitted is P20SPD, and he has had some good results with it as Mark says.

T-uk

not arguing just like to see claims backed up

I do not deny that the MD304 is a good 1/4mile turbo.

Mark knows for a fact that when I was talking turbos with him , I said the MD304 was a good straightliner as they do pull well at high revs. I am sure a search would also show my opinion has never changed.

for straightline work I think moving the power/torque higher up the revs , works well for 2litre gearchanges , allowing you to drop back above 5k where the MD304 works best over the VF28.

[Edited by T-uk - 12/11/2003 11:45:43 AM]

R19KET

T-uk,

Firstly, Pickle has been told it won't suit his requirements, so it's not really relevent.

If you believe a VF28 is capable of 377bhp at Star, is it faor to say that a VF28 with a bigger compressor wheel is capable of at least as much ?

You can't have it both ways.

Mark.

Andy.F

Bigger isn't always better !! Compressor efficiency is a major factor, fitting a big compressor wheel into a small casing can do strange things

Andy

PS a TD05 with standard compressor wheel ran an 11.7 1/4 mile last year but that doesn't really prove anything