HKS Racing Suction Kit + STi 8
10 July 2003, 12:38 AM
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Nope, Dont do it, it will mess up your MAF Sensor because i was thinking putting a Blitz SUS induction kit on my STi 7, which i think is similar to the HKS one but instead i stuck with an ITG panel filter instead. I hope that helps.
10 July 2003, 08:17 AM
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There is a chap having a HKS fitted on Sunday at Sumo, along with a SQV and Auto Water spray and some irdium plugs.
I'll wait to see how hw gets on. He is also having a decat.
I'll wait to see how hw gets on. He is also having a decat.
10 July 2003, 07:17 PM
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I had an HKS air filter on my STI for about 6000miles, it was absolutely fine, bloody noisey though. Gone back to standard for the time being, but probably swap back at some point. J
12 July 2003, 07:53 PM
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Hi all, it was me who had all the bits done courtesy of Sumo Power, have to say the jury is out on this one, just had done (all HKS Parts) full Super Dragger Exhaust, no cats, SSQV, racing suction kit, Front mounted intercooler with full hard pipe kit and Iridium plugs, within half an hour of driving it had problems with air flow sensor (although when I took the car to Subaru this is a common as hell problem), need to get the car tuned ASAP as I'm not too happy with the current results after handing over a shedload of cash, does anyone know of any good tuners!!??
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13 July 2003, 12:02 PM
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Following on from my previous post, I took the car for a run last night and what a complete turnaround, it was going like doo doo off a shovel, now a very happy man. There is an article about the afformentioned problem in Jap Performance Mag this month recommending specific filters etc, worth checking out, CupraMan, I'm from Maidstone and would be mopre than glad to meet sometime (Although the car is in the bodyshop from tomorrow), Damn those infernal shopping trolleys, I never do see them when I'm reversing, bloody well scraped my rear bumper.......AGAIN!!
13 July 2003, 04:46 PM
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We have fitted the HKS induction kit to our STI8.
Works fine. However, we did get a special attatchment made from Hong Kong which tended to do the trick.
Well worth getting one IMHO
Works fine. However, we did get a special attatchment made from Hong Kong which tended to do the trick.
Well worth getting one IMHO
14 July 2003, 07:47 PM
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Cupraman, you need to take a gander at this Months Jap Performance Mag, can't remember whats on the front but I know the 22B was last month. My Car will be out and about this Saturday for some real right foot testing, can't say much more than that as Saturday Night goes underground....if you know what I mean, if you're interseted in putting what you have to the test, let me know so I can let you know where to meet, there is normally around 20-30 people involved, ranging from Supras to other modified motors, it is always a good laugh, and well worth having a mosey
15 July 2003, 02:22 PM
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Guys if you have one of these, I suggest you remove it.
The MAF sits in a tube that forms part of the air filter box lid. This pipe is a specific diameter and the ECU knows how much air per second is entering the engine, by measuring the air as it goes through this pipe. The HKS, APS and Blitz filters replace this pipe with one of a larger diameter. As a result, the MAF sees air going past at a slower speed, reads this as less airflow and so puts less fuel in. The car feels quick because it is running lean. VERY LEAN. Eventually, and probably on a nice hot summer day, the engine will let go.
We have mapped cars with these filters, but it is a LOT of work as the entire AFR tables need to be rescaled and the new outputs are not a constant multiple.
The MAF sits in a tube that forms part of the air filter box lid. This pipe is a specific diameter and the ECU knows how much air per second is entering the engine, by measuring the air as it goes through this pipe. The HKS, APS and Blitz filters replace this pipe with one of a larger diameter. As a result, the MAF sees air going past at a slower speed, reads this as less airflow and so puts less fuel in. The car feels quick because it is running lean. VERY LEAN. Eventually, and probably on a nice hot summer day, the engine will let go.
We have mapped cars with these filters, but it is a LOT of work as the entire AFR tables need to be rescaled and the new outputs are not a constant multiple.
15 July 2003, 02:54 PM
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I mean it will det.
This will either melt the pistons or, more likely, cause big end failure.
There is no grey area about the danger of these products.
This will either melt the pistons or, more likely, cause big end failure.
There is no grey area about the danger of these products.
15 July 2003, 03:11 PM
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Im confused.
Pete, I understand where you are coming from, BUT, all these manufactures are producing product ( such as the Trust unit on my STI8) and marketing them for sale. If these parts are going to blow engines then how the hell do they get away with it and what testing do they do?
Now I know who you work for so I understand your bias BUT if what your saying is true then all of us running induction kits are in big big trouble yes???
Something does not ring true. If another product did the same it would be kicked out of manufacture very very quickly so why is this any different? Also is it scoobys only which are in danger?
Pete, I understand where you are coming from, BUT, all these manufactures are producing product ( such as the Trust unit on my STI8) and marketing them for sale. If these parts are going to blow engines then how the hell do they get away with it and what testing do they do?
Now I know who you work for so I understand your bias BUT if what your saying is true then all of us running induction kits are in big big trouble yes???
Something does not ring true. If another product did the same it would be kicked out of manufacture very very quickly so why is this any different? Also is it scoobys only which are in danger?
15 July 2003, 04:21 PM
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I knew this thread would get interesting. We have some trouble on the SEAT Cupra's running induction kits, not to say people have not dont it, they have and in the most part they are ok, but there have been the odd few that have shagged the MAF.
I'm not technical in anyway, but could not the MAF sensing software be reprogrammed to allow for the increased air flow?
[Edited by Cupraman - 7/15/2003 4:24:26 PM]
I'm not technical in anyway, but could not the MAF sensing software be reprogrammed to allow for the increased air flow?
[Edited by Cupraman - 7/15/2003 4:24:26 PM]
15 July 2003, 04:33 PM
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I have no bias at all here. I don't sell cone filters.
I'm not saying use this one its OK, all I'm saying is don't use one that has an enlarged pipe where the MAF sits, unless the car is being remapped. The MAF can be rescaled in a remap with EcuTek and other ecus don't use the MAF at all.
The companies that make them are predominately Japanese. It may be that the 100RON fuel in Japan gives enough safety that you will get away with it. I have only seen two STi7s that have done big ends and both had one of these filters on. Others have let go, although not many at all, but I haven't seen these cars, so can't comment.
As for suitability... The Blitz Stainless cone was actually designed for Blitz by ITG. It was designed for race cars, not road cars and ITG pioneered the use of this material from their F1 work. A few years ago, people started noticing MAF failures when using this filter. A lot of failures. In race use, you don't normally have to contend with dust and the engine will, at most, be used for one season before being rebuilt. In F1, its one race meeting. The stainless steel mesh filters out particles down to 200 microns in size. Subaru, along with virtually every other manufacturer insist on 10 microns. 200 micron particles not only shot blast the film in the MAF, but they have a fair bit of mass when hit by the turbine tips in the turbo. The filter was never designed to be used on a road car and to show this, its inventors don't sell them for road cars. The fuss about them got quite heated with people asking the same suitability questions on here. Eventually, the importer, Julian, posted on Scoobynet to say that the filter was not suitable for road going Imprezas.
[edited to make sense]
[Edited by Pete Croney - 7/15/2003 4:37:10 PM]
I'm not saying use this one its OK, all I'm saying is don't use one that has an enlarged pipe where the MAF sits, unless the car is being remapped. The MAF can be rescaled in a remap with EcuTek and other ecus don't use the MAF at all.
The companies that make them are predominately Japanese. It may be that the 100RON fuel in Japan gives enough safety that you will get away with it. I have only seen two STi7s that have done big ends and both had one of these filters on. Others have let go, although not many at all, but I haven't seen these cars, so can't comment.
As for suitability... The Blitz Stainless cone was actually designed for Blitz by ITG. It was designed for race cars, not road cars and ITG pioneered the use of this material from their F1 work. A few years ago, people started noticing MAF failures when using this filter. A lot of failures. In race use, you don't normally have to contend with dust and the engine will, at most, be used for one season before being rebuilt. In F1, its one race meeting. The stainless steel mesh filters out particles down to 200 microns in size. Subaru, along with virtually every other manufacturer insist on 10 microns. 200 micron particles not only shot blast the film in the MAF, but they have a fair bit of mass when hit by the turbine tips in the turbo. The filter was never designed to be used on a road car and to show this, its inventors don't sell them for road cars. The fuss about them got quite heated with people asking the same suitability questions on here. Eventually, the importer, Julian, posted on Scoobynet to say that the filter was not suitable for road going Imprezas.
[edited to make sense]
[Edited by Pete Croney - 7/15/2003 4:37:10 PM]
17 July 2003, 09:40 PM
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Pete,
I understand what you are saying about the airflow being slower if the pipe where the MAF sits in is enlarged. So in hearing your advice I took off my Blitz Sonic Power Air Filter a moment ago. Now I compared the pipe with the original filter box and they are identical in size. In addition, unlike the Blitz SUS filters the Sonic Power uses the same type of filter material as the K&N cone filters. So filtration, I can't see being a problem.
If the above facts are true, then does this mean that I should be able to use my filter? Or is there something else that will be a problem?
Sorry to be such a pain in bringing this up again, but I really don't want to feel like I've wasted my money on a decent filter and have to wait a while before I can afford to do the full monty (decat, remap).
P.S. Thanks for the useful info so far!
I understand what you are saying about the airflow being slower if the pipe where the MAF sits in is enlarged. So in hearing your advice I took off my Blitz Sonic Power Air Filter a moment ago. Now I compared the pipe with the original filter box and they are identical in size. In addition, unlike the Blitz SUS filters the Sonic Power uses the same type of filter material as the K&N cone filters. So filtration, I can't see being a problem.
If the above facts are true, then does this mean that I should be able to use my filter? Or is there something else that will be a problem?
Sorry to be such a pain in bringing this up again, but I really don't want to feel like I've wasted my money on a decent filter and have to wait a while before I can afford to do the full monty (decat, remap).
P.S. Thanks for the useful info so far!