High grip clutch and gearbox question:
09 June 2003, 10:18 PM
#1
My STi clutch is starting to smell after hard starts, so things are getting close to a clutch change.
Thinking of an AP Organic assembly, any thoughts?
Also, can the clutch be changed by only splitting the box/engine and removing neither out of the car?
All advice welcome....Graham.
Thinking of an AP Organic assembly, any thoughts?
Also, can the clutch be changed by only splitting the box/engine and removing neither out of the car?
All advice welcome....Graham.
09 June 2003, 10:40 PM
#2
AP organic isn't so good according to a few people I know that tried it (considering the price mainly). I think it's actually the same spec as the Sti uprated one you probably already have.
If you want to save the gearbox, then sticking with an organic is a wise move. There are a few options.
Buy an ACT clutch from the US
Get an uprated organic clutch from Lateral Performance in the UK.
Get a cheap, but seamingly good Exedy (Daikin) uprated clutch from various places in the UK.
Lateral Performance has the best track record is rated to 400ft-lb of torque, but should be okay with a hill climb format where you're not doing back to back runs.
Paul
If you want to save the gearbox, then sticking with an organic is a wise move. There are a few options.
Buy an ACT clutch from the US
Get an uprated organic clutch from Lateral Performance in the UK.
Get a cheap, but seamingly good Exedy (Daikin) uprated clutch from various places in the UK.
Lateral Performance has the best track record is rated to 400ft-lb of torque, but should be okay with a hill climb format where you're not doing back to back runs.
Paul
10 June 2003, 12:14 PM
#3
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Mark may well recommend that you use a paddle clutch for competition work.
I fitted the Lateral organic version and although it would hold ok under steady power, it would slip with 5krpm launches using grippy tyres/front LSD on a 340lbft torque engine.
I fitted the Lateral organic version and although it would hold ok under steady power, it would slip with 5krpm launches using grippy tyres/front LSD on a 340lbft torque engine.
10 June 2003, 12:38 PM
#4
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Andy,
You're right, to some degree. I certainly wouldn't recommend an organic clutch for drag racing, but most people don't want to go for a paddle clutch, the same as you didn't, when I recommended it !
The down side of a paddle, is the likelyhood of damaging a standard gearbox, so it's a bit Catch 22, and I understand the reluctance.
Unless the car has very high torque/power figures, I would expect an organic to be fine for hill climb type events though.
Mark.
You're right, to some degree. I certainly wouldn't recommend an organic clutch for drag racing, but most people don't want to go for a paddle clutch, the same as you didn't, when I recommended it !
The down side of a paddle, is the likelyhood of damaging a standard gearbox, so it's a bit Catch 22, and I understand the reluctance.
Unless the car has very high torque/power figures, I would expect an organic to be fine for hill climb type events though.
Mark.
10 June 2003, 07:22 PM
#5
Wow, thanks to you all for coming back!
I am about to put 17's(P1 alloys) and sticky tyres, though not hillclimb slicks,onto the car. I'm forced to do this because the competition is an EVO5 with 480 bhp and suchlike.....Got to get more grip from somewhere. Tried the car with the wheels and track slicks and a hard start killed the clutch at 4500rpm, and I've only got 314 bhp/Lbft.
So why is the Lateral clutch better than say an STi or AP organic clutch? I used a sprung paddle clutch in my hill climb Porsche and it never slipped but was a sod on the road in traffic!
It is a relief that the box does not need to come out as I'm in the middle of the race season now and a quick clutch change may be needed!
Thanks to all, I'm off to the Scoobynet shop now...
Graham.
I am about to put 17's(P1 alloys) and sticky tyres, though not hillclimb slicks,onto the car. I'm forced to do this because the competition is an EVO5 with 480 bhp and suchlike.....Got to get more grip from somewhere. Tried the car with the wheels and track slicks and a hard start killed the clutch at 4500rpm, and I've only got 314 bhp/Lbft.
So why is the Lateral clutch better than say an STi or AP organic clutch? I used a sprung paddle clutch in my hill climb Porsche and it never slipped but was a sod on the road in traffic!
It is a relief that the box does not need to come out as I'm in the middle of the race season now and a quick clutch change may be needed!
Thanks to all, I'm off to the Scoobynet shop now...
Graham.
12 June 2003, 07:31 PM
#6
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I had an AP Paddle Clutch fitted. Took a little getting used to, but have no problems with it now. Would offer to take you out and show you how quite easy it is to drive, but the car is off the road at the moment!! Me personnaly would recomend just going for the AP Paddle Clutch.
12 June 2003, 09:43 PM
#7
Had a good email from Mark at Lateral Performance. Very level headed isn't he? He said realy the paddle was the right way except the box will suffer. Made my mind up to go for an organic Lateral when the dreaded day comes when I can't get any gears....
Had a ceramic paddle in my hill climb 911, welded the disc to the flwheel after one very hard start, and that was with 230 bhp only!
Graham.
Had a ceramic paddle in my hill climb 911, welded the disc to the flwheel after one very hard start, and that was with 230 bhp only!
Graham.
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12 June 2003, 09:43 PM
#8
Had a good email from Mark at Lateral Performance. Very level headed isn't he? He said realy the paddle was the right way except the box will suffer. Made my mind up to go for an organic Lateral when the dreaded day comes when I can't get any gears....
Had a ceramic paddle in my hill climb 911, welded the disc to the flwheel after one very hard start, and that was with 230 bhp only!
Graham.
Had a ceramic paddle in my hill climb 911, welded the disc to the flwheel after one very hard start, and that was with 230 bhp only!
Graham.
06 October 2003, 12:31 PM
#10
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Changed a clutch last week, the clutch can be changed without removing the engine or gearbox completely.
You will need to remove the prop/linkage/stabiliser etc on the box though.
Edited to add.... Not overly impressed with the AP organic.. Once Pavlo had got some decent power out of my car it slipped at 5k+.. that was without any launches involved, for an extra couple of quid i would go for the Lateral Perf Clutch every time. Unless you are going to go for a paddle clutch, then IMHO the AP Paddle is more than up to it.
Rob
[Edited by tweenierob - 6/10/2003 12:35:52 PM]
You will need to remove the prop/linkage/stabiliser etc on the box though.
Edited to add.... Not overly impressed with the AP organic.. Once Pavlo had got some decent power out of my car it slipped at 5k+.. that was without any launches involved, for an extra couple of quid i would go for the Lateral Perf Clutch every time. Unless you are going to go for a paddle clutch, then IMHO the AP Paddle is more than up to it.
Rob
[Edited by tweenierob - 6/10/2003 12:35:52 PM]
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